The O.C.

Snate, GM does the EXACT same thing. It's called a "service bulletin" and I can CONFIRM that GM (Buick at least) did EVERYTHING they could to avoid recalling a vehicle (voluntarily or not) and would try to fix problems with "service bulletins" issued to the dealership service departments.

No.....the tranny issue is not deemed safety-related.....therefore NHTSA doesn't factor in.

Uh.....I agree with enzl..... I don't see this as any significant issue at all. It wouldn't be an issue with a GM product.....and it's not that big of an issue with the Camry. There's a problem....and they are going to fix it....big deal. No one thinks Toyotas are perfect...no car company is. Are they more consistent with their quality, reliability, and design execution? Well, I'd argue that in and of itself might be a stronger case. This HARDLY seems like a solid enough platform to start another round of Toyota-bashing....??????

And I have YET to see a single ES with that "accessory" spoiler attached.....

In the picture, it looks like the trim is now some sort of graphite plastic.....and the center stack appears graphite/black now as opposed to all the radio and hvac controls being silver....

.....and many manufacturers today offer auto up AND down on all the windows. I was just thinking about that and how I can't BELIEVE I spent over $60K for a Corvette Convertible and ONLY have auto DOWN on the driver's side window....especially irritating for me because in the convertible, I'm always cycling the windows up and down as I lower and raise the top (the windows don't automatically cycle, a la BMW convertibles.) oh, and no steering-wheel radio controls on the 'Vette either.....even though the SAME steering wheel gracing G6s and other models HAVE those radio controls..... Ugh... .......just GM not sweating all the details.

That was an excellent, excellent, excellent example.......thanks Croc.....

The car I sat in was red with a charcoal/black interior......and it looked good in black (although I like black interiors anyways where other people find them too somber...)

Where's the optional SPOILER? (just kidding guys.....)

The cheap build quality and materials......mostly in the center stack and console. You can easily "wiggle" the center console in its mounts with your hand.....not my idea of a quality interior.

Yeah.....that's why GM spent the money to engineer the new 6-speed automatic for the CORVETTE....and the XLR....and the STS-v.... ....because those are all wimp motors with narrow torque bands...!

.....yeah.....but have you DRIVEN an import 5cyl like a Volvo or the new Jetta 2.5L.....? They are WAY more refined and cultured sounding than the I5 in the Colorado.... NVH is the killer with the GM I-5......IMHO.

Makes sense.....the SLUG that it is.....you probably HAVE to keep your foot to the floor all the time.... (just razzing you ocnblu.....just kidding)

The new radio makes a dramatic improvement and fixes one of my big gripes with the Cobalt interior. I'm also glad all that tacky silver trim has gone away too.....

I don't want to cast a shadow on my previous positive statement about GM....but I wonder just how much actual steering feel has been lost in cars like the SS and GXP (compared to TLs and such) in order to COMPENSATE for the torque steer? I've driven the GMs.....but have never driven a TL yet....but it's supposed to be a pretty-good-driving FWD sedan.....

.....yet uglier..... <groan> Who was the product planner at Chevrolet that didn't have enough smarts to basically duplicate the suspension tuning on the SS to mimic the GXP? And don't ANYONE on here tell me that the Pontiac is "supposed to have a sportier ride" or that Chevy had to "dumb down" the SS to "protect Pontiac..." It's crap like that that gave the Lucerne the lower-powered Northstar.....in Bob Lutz' words..."we needed to protect Cadillac."

I test drove a GXP and was SHOCKED at the LACK of torque steer. That's one thing GM is getting really good at managing.....

Does the IIHS pick the car to test (a la Consumer Reports) or do they ask GM for a doner car and GM decides what to supply......(a la any other "buff" mag)....?

EXACTLY.....

This car BLOWS the Malibu away in every area except V6 horsepower. But then again, I am of the opinion that the Malibu is GM's worst-designed car available right now.... The Kia interior is certainly 10-steps ahead.....

You are seriously out of touch here. I've also driven both (okay my 3.9L drive was in a Monte Carlo) and the Avalon spanks the Chevy so bad it's not even funny. (and the 3.9 doesn't run that bad either....) Reference my above post quoting C&D acceleration numbers.

Yep.....268hp.....and even better, compare C&D test numbers..... Avalon 0-60 in 6.0secs flat. Lucerne NorthStar, 0-60 in 6.9secs.....REGARDLESS of what the Avalon's actual "SAE" number is. The performance is there....as is the fuel economy if you read C&D's actual "test" mpg numbers. Oh....and Impala looks like nothing more than a "Hertz Rental Car Special." Avalon certainly doesn't. AND I wouldn't call Impala's overly huge front-and-rear overhangs (thanks, ancient W-car/GM-10 architecture) a "better balanced design."

Ahhh.....but you don't have to pay for ANY service (even brakes) on any BMW for the life of the warranty (4yrs/50K miles.) Who cares if you end up going to a BMW dealership for that (free) service? Any time I had to go, I made an appointment....and waited for a LOF just like anywhere else I went.....and sometimes I even got a loaner....

Well, I gotta chime in by now. I looked at a bunch of Avalons on the Toyota lot when I was scanning the new Camry and I've gotta tell you the Avalon Touring is the deal...... For $31-32K, you've got a pretty-well loaded Avalon with leather, moonroof, yadda, yadda AND the touring's slightly firmer suspension tuning AND the silver metallic trim replacing the bright wood. Plus you get a more attractive wheel-and-tire package. I really question ANYONE that calls an Avalon's interior "plasticky" and then wonders why anyone wouldn't pick an Impala LTZ over it. Have these people literally sat in both cars and compared? Impala's okay....and a nice GM effort....but the interior isn't nearly as large inside, or as comfortable in the back, AND it certainly doesn't have as nice of materials inside as the Toyota.....cheesy center stack doors or not..... Plus, for low-30's......you get a strong and super smooth V6 that punts the Avalon from 0-60 in 6secs flat. The ONLY GM sedan that can beat it (and barely at that) is an Impala SS or Grand Prix GXP at around 5.7secs 0-60.....and I'm guessing the Avalon will provide WAY better real-world fuel economy. To get a closely comparably-driving Lucerne, you are looking at AT LEAST a CXS model at around $36K-$38K. The CXL is too floaty and boaty....the V6 is too underpowered....hell the V8 isn't near as quick.... SO....based on what he's looking for, I'd say Avalon Touring is the way to go. I would probably take a fully-loaded Lucerne CXS over the Avalon.....but then I'll spend alot more money for it.....so if price is a serious issue, the Avalon Touring at $32K looks very attractive next to the Lucerne at $38K.

I agree....while I was impressed with the 3900 and the overall ride-and-handling, the interior fit-and-finish and material quality is TERRIBLE.....and certainly NOT comparable to the new Impala's.....