Drew Dowdell

The Lacrosse is a large mid-size FWD vehicle in the same segment as the ES350 and TL. It could have made do with just one engine -- the 3.6. In fact, starting august next year that is exactly what it'll do.

Did Buick cancel the Ecotec Lacrosse and we not hear about it?

Wut?! You mean it's a waste of time to play farmville on my iPad?

Isn't Choice D the most logistically easy choice?

FAIL

McArdle fumes:

Please keep the politics and political name calling out of this or else the whole thread gets moved or closed

Sliced down the center, stuffed with cheddar cheese, and then wrapped in bacon.

I think Fleetwood and Eldorado still have some weight and can be made cool. Deville and Seville I'd leave in the closet, but LaSalle they could use. I think Chrysler should be using Imperial and Atlantic, those are strong names, unlike Sebring and 300. Maybach is building the Zeppelin as their last hurrah. Acura traded the Legend for the RL, Legend sounds like it means something, RL means nothing, except for "really lame."

On engines, Mercedes just showed off their new multi-spark V6 and V8s today, and rumor of a 476 hp twin turbo V6 from AMG is out there. If I were Cadillac, I wouldn't want a turbo 4 when Mercedes, BMW and Infiniti have 300+ hp V6s, or a 400 hp pushrod when the other guy as 476 hp and AMG badges.

GM tried to sell a 400 hp, basic no frills car for $35,000 in the GTO, and it wasn't that good of a seller. Dodge has the Challenger, and Chrysler the 300 SRT, both with a 420 hp pushrod for $45k, and those are junk cars. The ATS needs to aim higher than that.

I always like the name Vigor.

SMK, did you ever stop to think that one of the things that isn't wrong with the LX cars is the valvetrain? I am no lover of the LX cars, but there are plenty of vehicles I'd love to see that engine power.

My first impression off the bat is that this is a heavy vehicle. It feels as heavy as the Lambdas, but being shorter you can also feel that it is slightly more nimble. The engine, though it feels powerful enough, also feels like it's working hard. MPG today, about a 50/50 mix of city/highway is 18.6.

Second impression came when I looked at the window sticker (which I will scan in later) $31k for this vehicle and no leather, no nav, no automatic HVAC, no sunroof.

inverted V12?

Even if we assume content the same, or not important to the buyer, the M5 still has the ability to rev to 8400 rpm which creates a Ferrari-like, race car sound. The CTS could make 1,000 horsepower, it won't sound like a Formula 1 car, that emotional payoff the M5 provides is what makes it the king of the class. It is similar to how Aston Martin can charge $250,000 for a DBS when it isn't any faster than a GT-R or Z06, in fact the DBS is probably slower than both, and I don't think anyone would trade a DBS for a Nissan or Chevy.

The sound of a supercharged LS engine is it's own character. It doesn't have to sound like a Formula 1 car, it just sounds like muscle.... which it simply oozes...

How about

"You're dying"

Chazman, GM just announced the 5.5 is going to be built at Tonawanda

What build quality issues are you seeing with the CTS? I can see how you be upset that it doesn't have seats that give a reach around like the BMW does...

Even if Cadillac added all the content that you deem necessary, it still wouldn't add up to the price that BMW is charging for the M5.....

So I ask again, assume the content of the cars is the same for a moment because I'm comparing hardware here. Shouldn't Cadillac be commended for being able to beat "the king" with substantially simpler equipment?

That sounds like a recipe for a Camaro. Simple doesn't sell in the luxury segment. The Audi RS5 is likely to cost $69,000-75,000 when it comes to the US. The ATS-V should be aiming closer to that, or the $60-65k for an M3. Why is Cadillac's goal to be the K-Mart of the luxury car brands? Bargain basement pricing isn't good for a luxury car brand, that is why Cadillac has a weak image.

Is it not a testament to GM's skill that they build cars that out perform the Germans without having to resort to mechanical wizardry?

But in the 1980s, GM was making billions in profit, and couldn't come up with a car to rival the Germans. In the 90s, they still were making billions a year, and no rival or even attempt to go after the 3-series (or 5-series for that matter) was made. Even post bankruptcy, GM is still a pretty poor company, they are struggling to break even still even with the bankruptcy cleansing their balance sheet.

It is certainly possible to make a car to rival the 3-series, but Lexus even with their deep pockets and resources still came up short. I am waiting to see if GM really commits to the ATS, or if they just do a "good enough" job on it because they need to focus on re-doing the GMT900s or hold back so the ATS doesn't compete with the CTS.

I disagree that GM couldn't come up with a car to rival the what the Germans were doing in 1983. They had certainly figured out insta-rust bodies with the Vega and Chevette. They had all the vinyl experience needed for crafting German style interiors. They basically defined the market for slow, unreliable diesels plopped into ill handling RWD tanks. They even waded into rather Germanic, under developed yet overly complicated engine technology with the 8-6-4 and 4100.

So GM certainly could have used all those technologies in one car to make a 3-series rival.... but given what the market was demanding back then, I can see why they didn't.

Back then, the market was very different. "Luxury" back then was defined a very very different way. In 1983, BMWs weren't luxury cars for the way they were appointed.... they were only a luxury to own because only the rich could afford to keep them on the road. A 1983 3-series is every bit as drab and spartan as a 1983 Cimirron. "Luxury" in 1983 was the full sized Devilles with plush, living room like interiors. Oh sure, the top of the line Benz was more expensive, but it's interior was rather on the drab side... the luxury was just the statement that you could afford to blow that much money.

one good spelling FAIL deserves another I guess....

My dieing... what?

Well they currently build nothing on par with the Germans. The closest thing they have is the CTS, which is like a watered down 5-series/E-class that sells for $13,000 less. So there is nothing to point to. The ATS is going into territory GM hasn't gone in 25 years, and the one time they tried, they built the worst car in Cadillac history.

They currently build nothing that was designed post-bankruptcy without all the cost saving measures built in to counter balance their debt and UAW.

The Alpha platform will be the first post bankruptcy platform released. You can't use any previous assumptions.

I saw this earlier today and I'm appalled by it. The officers who did this should be removed from the force, all charges dropped, and reparations made to the family.

I think weed (and a few other drugs) should be decriminalized.

If all you can point to is the old GM stuff as evidence.......

Exactly right on the first point. And the car in that class with the I6, is the #1 seller and considered by every automotive publication to be the gold standard of the class.

I can't see GM keeping weight to 3300 pounds. Almost nothing GM makes is among the lightest in the class, they are usually among the heaviest in the class. A Corvette is near 3300 pounds, and the ATS has to have dual power heated and ventilated seats, Sat-Nav, 10-12 speakers, moonroof, leather, wood, sound deadening, etc. All that stuff adds weight. My guess is weight closer to 3600-3700 pounds, in which case they will need 300+ hp to keep it running with the 335i and G37. The ATS-V should be closer to $60k. If the regular ATS is in the $28-38k price range, it won't have the build quality the Germans have, and it will fall flat on its face. The ATS is going into a segment no American car has ever had success in.

The ATS is going to be the first platform released that had a greater part of it's development time under the Post-Bankrupt GM rather than Pre-Bankrupt GM. All bets are off for weight and build quality.... especially considering the build quality GM is putting out these days (world class)

The EPSII, Sigma II, Delta II, Theta II were all pre-bankruptcy development have all the baggage associated with it.

Since BlackViper's Cobalt bit the brakes and ate a rock and the VeeDub is not yet in da house.... i picked out a car for him to be a daily driver until his two other love muffins are out of the hospital.