black02

I definitely felt torque steer in the Aura XE (3.5V6 I think) I rented a few weeks ago, and I was just driving it normally (it discourages anything fun). To make FWD cars fast on a race track, they just set them up to oversteer, and then they control that with the throttle. You'd never want to set up a street car that way.

If gasoline goes up to $20/gallon, what will you do?

Sure. But not best for fastest track time, which was the original discussion (CTS-V versus Panamera).

Couldn't hold that one 'til April 1st, eh?

Actually, a well-engineered AWD system will corner faster than a well-engineered RWD system. AWD lets you get maximum traction usage from all four wheels, so even though it's heavier, it'll be quicker. If AWD were an option in F1, everyone would have it. The reason it's not there is that it's outlawed. I still like RWD better, because I want more from a street car than just taking every corner at maximum speed.

Yeah, in the LA and Bay areas, almost no one buys a new domestic sedan. If you go into the central valley -- places such as Fresno and Bakersfield -- the domestics do quite a bit better (i.e. you see some). But I see quite a lot of Camaros and Mustangs in the areas where sedans don't sell. Also, the 300 and Charger do well. It definitely helps that you can't get anything like a Charger from Toyota or Honda. It's too bad that GM canceled their Zeta Chevy sedan plans.

Best bus ever built! As a bonus, the U.S. factory was in Pontiac. The bus pictured is a Canadian unit, built in Quebec. The first New Look was built in 1959, and the last in 1986.

Yeah. The GTO might have been Pontiac's biggest seller -- at least in coastal California. The G6 doesn't sell here at all as far as I can tell. My impression is that Pontiac seems to have a negative brand image among those who aren't muscle car fans. Chevy still seems to be okay. People do like the G8 and the GTO, even if they don't think much of Pontiac. Though when I suggested to a coworker that he look at a G8 instead of a slightly used 745i, he said he just couldn't see himself in a Pontiac, no matter how nice the G8 was.... This is what GM has to struggle against.

Michigan?

The best chance for Pontiac is if it clearly gets folded into the Buick and GMC franchise agreement in such a way that it could be canceled in the future with no penalties to GM. That would give GM the freedom to actually make it a niche without having to provide volume cars to the dealerships. It would also give GM a little time to make that niche plan work. Things like the G3 and the Torrent weren't part of the strategic Pontiac plan as far as I can tell. They were a response to dealer complaints. That can't continue. But as an observer, and not a mover or shaker, if I had to bet, I'd bet against Pontiac. Still, a small Pontiac lineup with Alphas and Zetas as cornerstones would be pretty neat.

I understand. The Intrigue was the best looking W-body by far, in my opinion, just as the Aurora was the best looking G. I would love to see a Commodore with a late Olds front end instead of the Pontiac with scoops. I ain't gonna get it. I was an Olds fan, though since I like RWD, while I like the look of their cars, they really hadn't had anything for me since 1987.

Okay, 2 Pontiacs a year. Do I hear 2.5? I sit corrected. The real way to save GM is to bring back Oakland, LaSalle, Oldsmobile, and continue to pump lots of money into Hummer, Saab, Saturn, and Pontiac. A car for everybody, dead or alive. I'll now duck again. In reality, I'd like to see a RWD Pontiac division as much as anyone. I just don't think it's going to happen, so I'm not going to get my hopes up.

It tells me that you bought a Pontiac. Is that wrong?

Yeah, the crowd that's been posting here would probably buy one Pontiac a year, unless GM does something to try to save itself that happens to anger one of them, in which case it might drop to .8 or .9 Pontiacs a year. That's enough for me to suggest putting another few billion dollars into Pontiac.

And how do you know that?

I'm glad that the government spent the time to do this right. A 363 without government help likely would have been impossible, and a standard chapter 11 would have been a mess and probably would not have been successful. The only bad thing is that GM has to choose now which brands it wants to keep. After the bankruptcy, it'd be very expensive to drop any. So given what's been posted here, things don't look good for Pontiac. It's kill it now or kill it never. And I've not seen anything from GM or the government that makes me think 'never' is likely. Besides, the annual will they/won't they would be incredibly distracting. Get it over with and focus on the future. No more painful dragged out brand deaths, with years of rumor followed by 3-4 years of slow death.

It's looking more and more like the bankruptcy is inevitable, especially given the rumors that the bondholders would prefer a default, for which they could put in a claim. This 363 is also a way to get it over with very quickly, with respect to the continuing part of the business.

He's an idiot. My opinion of the Chronicle went down when I read his column, full of tired stereotypes and bashing people for liking things that he doesn't care about.

I think it would be hilarious if Alpha turns out to be a smaller, lighter variant of Zeta. A 4 and 6 would be plenty in such a car.

The Mustang is 300 pounds lighter, yet it gets the same fuel economy. Part of the reason, I believe, is the shorter axle ratio, which helps it get the 13.5s 1/4 mile. I'll be surprised -- amazed even -- if the Mustang doesn't pick up 50 pounds with the 5.0. It'll probably get a taller axle ratio to help fuel economy. My guess is that it will be very close to the Camaro in acceleration. I agree, next year's comparison will be interesting too.

Rumor (speculation?) has it that the side impact performance is not up to U.S. luxury market standards.

I've got to disagree with you here. Plenty of good reasons for killing Pontiac have been stated all over the media and in forums like these. As far as product cancellations go, GM has this cash flow problem that you may have heard about. That's what companies do when they have cash flow problems -- cancel products that have the least return on investment. Buick versus Pontiac? China. I don't like that old brands that I know and love disappearing. I didn't like Oldsmobile disappearing (I own 3 Cutlasses from '70 - '71). But I can see why they're doing it. I can see reasons not to do it too, but I won't pretend to know the One Right Answer. Nor will I claim that all of GM's current problems would be avoided if Olds were still around, nor even that GM would be better off if Olds were still around. I actually claim to know none of these things, but I do claim that I understand the reasons for shutting down Olds and for gradually shutting down Pontiac.

Today. But what about 2014? It sounds like they're going to eventually move Pontiac models to either Buick or Chevy. Though I would not be surprised if GM changes their mind again and gives Pontiac another chance. I've noticed that the future of Pontiac is constantly in flux.

That's not quite what it says. It says that there won't be any more non-Holden Zetas and that the Holden Zetas will get a refresh in 2013. It mentions that the G8's fate will be tied to Pontiac's. So I infer that if Pontiac is still around in 2013, it could get the updated Holden Zeta. He really didn't say anything in that article about when the North American Zeta (aka Camaro) would end production. If it turns out that a Chevy Alpha is shown in a 2014 autoshow, then presumably it would be ready for MY2015 at the earliest. Would GM have another hiatus for Camaro?

"Sorry, your platform is not supported." That's why I don't like flash. At least Java and Javascript work.