Fuel's of the future, and GM's innovations

[Newbiewar]

Well I was just reading GM.com's news page to realize they are really pushing for vehicles to use Ethonal. General Motors Promotes Greater E85 Consumer Awareness, Use In Minnesota and I started to think. In order to dispense Ethonal a Gas station would require new tanks and new fuel lines. Everything would need to be renewed for the different fuel. So this could cost several thousand if not hundreds of thousands per station. For how long would this fuel sorce be in use, if GM suspects Fuel Cells are on the horizon? How many years will the gas station have to make pennys per gallon to pay off this fuel switch? will the investment be worth while, if after 5-10 years we are trying to switch again? I hope GM thinks things out correctly. has anyone thought about the problems with switching to E85 for the long term of the gas stations?

[pow]

Agreed... I'm in LA and the closest E85 station is in San Diego.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

It's more for image than anything else... And RIGHTFULLY so IMO... Ford should have a similar campaign.

Most people don't even know what E85 is or that the domestics have been producing these cars for years. I recently asked a co-worker, who drives a Taurus and aspires to own an Outback, if she had ever ran E85 in her car. She said "What are you talking about?" I said; "See that emblem on your fender? That means Flex Fuel Vehicle and means that you can safely run E85."

She was clueless...

It's just YET ANOTHER technology that GM and Ford have been screwed out of their credit for IMO.

[PurdueGuy]

Gasoline/E85 cars will be around much longer than 5-10 more years, so it's worth it, IMO.

[Newbiewar]

Gasoline/E85 cars will be around much longer than 5-10 more years, so it's worth it, IMO.

but realistically... if they are trying to get a new fuel into development... today, and 10 years from now, they want to try again to do a full switch... financially when will the gas stations catch up to the cost of the first investment?

[AAS]

Agreed... I'm in LA and the closest E85 station is in San Diego.

Really? Where? I checked some website and it showed none in So Cal, just up north at the national labs and Berkeley.

[PurdueGuy]

Why do the stations have to have different tanks/fuel lines? Just for the added capacity as opposed to having it instead of something else?

[Newbiewar]

Really?  Where?  I checked some website and it showed none in So Cal, just up north at the national labs and Berkeley.

according to E85fuel.com these are the only places in California that sell or are about to sell the stuff... but i think the top three arent avalible to the public...

Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

"Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory -- One Cycl

Berkeley, CA 94720

Lawrence Livermore National Lab

Lawrence Livermore National Lab

Livermore, CA 94551

Vandenberg Air Force Base

1705 Air Field Road

Lompoc, CA 93437

805-606-6867

Regional Transportation Center (RTC)

4001 El Cajon Blvd

San Diego, CA 92105

619-521-2469

Why do the stations have to have different tanks/fuel lines?  Just for the added capacity as opposed to having it instead of something else?

they have to change the tanks and the fuel lines becaues E85 can eat away at basic fuel lines that support gasoline... its the same reason why most cars cant handle E85, its not that the engine wont support it, its just longgevity the stuff will destroy all the plumbing...

Edited March 11, 2006 by Newbiewar

[PurdueGuy]

they have to change the tanks and the fuel lines becaues E85 can eat away at basic fuel lines that support gasoline... its the same reason why most cars cant handle E85, its not that the engine wont support it, its just longgevity the stuff will destroy all the plumbing...

I thought that might play into it, too, but wasn't sure if the stuff at the stations was "beefier" enough that it wouldn't matter. *shrug* Though to have the stuff in addition to the regular, it might not be a matter of replacing tanks & pumps so much as adding an additional setup. Still not cheap, but I think overall it'd still be worth it, especially if almost all new cars can handle E85 a few years from now.