evok

The Lacrosse gets an MCE in 2008 (MY).

This might be the stuff that also ensures GM should remain the global leader in sales in the near future.

I wonder what the BM has to say about this. I did not see China in the Return to Greatness. Anybody think Wags should get a kudos?

Yea but his defence is bad: Celica is believe is dead. The Eclipse sold 24k last year up from 12k the year before. The Mustang, well that is an icon. Something that the Camaro name can not even really compare to.

I didn't either.

Yea - I need to double check if both vehicles had thorax bags, Lacrosse and Impala. The results looked like the Lacrosse had the curtain but not the side bag. Torso and Pelvis were elevated.

That was because the Eldo dropped in volume even after the 1996 MCE. The more modern G body Riviera at the time struggled with 10k/year. The market died.

Sorry but the market and auto business is a tad more complex than wishful thinking.

I do agree with you that there is potential for growth in the segment beyond 2 seat or smaller 2+2 vehicles. I limit my comments to more along the lines of the traditional, sporty 2 door sedan market. i.e. Monte Carlo, Chevelle, Thunderbird segment as we can all agree how they would be ressurected today. If the respective manufactuers could design a vehicle with enough emotional, irrational connection to the vehicles, I believe they could be successful and possibly profitable at a limited volume. I pull the current GTO out of this discussion, because I believe it is not in the class of vehicle I am limiting my comments on. By successful, I believe 35k vehicles on average for the life of the program would be just that. That is with premium pricing over the current or near term pony cars. Styling is critical for that emotional connection. Any vehicle would have to be more than a two door version of its donor vehicle. i.e. I believe there is a really limited market for a 2-Door LX. At the same time the manufacturer has to very careful in this segment. This is the ADD market segment. What is hot today could be as cold as ice tomorrow. Again, there could be profitable potential at limited, controlled volume, but it is not high volume potential. The market could not handle the Camaro, Challenger, Monte, Chevelle, GTO, Mustang, Thunderbird like they once could in the past. It would have to be selective targeting and controled cost to make one or two larger coupes successful in the market.

The Lacrosse gets an MCE in 2008.

The IIHS tested the SS with the hunk of brick up front with less crush.

Yea - 1.1 million minivans sold last year is a dieing market. Too bad that was more volume than rwd cars, v8 cars and coupes put together.

True

And what about all the subsidies on farmers? And what about the 25% tax on trucks imported in the US. Do you wonder why the Tundra, Titan, X5, M-Class, Tacoma, etc, are build in the US or NAFTA zone. It goes both ways.

Depending on how you count the numbers the coupe slide has reached more or less a steady state with some fluctuation over the recent years. The Solstice and Sky along with the New Mustang, new Civic, Cobalt have helped improve the sales. But one thing will will not change, the coupe move beyond a niche market into the mainstream status in once held.

I think some of you should read Tom Friedman's lastest book: "The World is Flat"

I could be wrong, but I thought that the W-Bodies were supposed to replace both the A and G cars when all was said and done. I remember the G coupes were given a reprieve for a couple of years and the old A cars lived until about 1997. All of that because the W cars were not well received and expensive because they were delayed a couple years because of the Smith re-org. But time goes on and memories begin to fade.

I wish I could just post the whole chart. Here are the A Bodies for select model years. Celebrity: 1982 - 212k 1986 - 408k 1987 - 306k 6000 1982 - 55k 1986 - 199k 1987 - 120k Ciera 1982 - 113k 1986 - 329k 1987 - 244k Century 1982 - 99k 1986 - 240k 1987 - 147k For Reference: Taurus 1986 - 263k 1987 - 354k Sable 1986 - 98k 1987 - 104k

I have all the data in front of me at the moment in hard copy format (argh): Couple of observations. 1) Coupes in the midsized segment for GM were on there way down. 2) There was a switch from the G bodies to the Ciera, Century, Celebrity and 6000 starting in 1982. 3) Ford picked up 300k sales with the Taurus/Sable. 4) The new for 1986 E/K bodies were a disaster. 5) Starting in 1987 the Ciera, Century, Celebrity and 6000 were each down about 100k vehicles over 1986. Even still GM's passenger car sales. 1982 - 3.5 million 1986 - 4.5 million 1987 - 3.5 million Ford 1982 - 1.3 million 1986 - 2.0 million 1987 - 2.0 million Enjoy the blast from the blast. It has been a long time for me since I have looked at these numbers. These reference books are so old they do not even separate out the pickup by make and model. The Japanese are called other and VW is still itemized as being a serious importer/transplant.

True enough: Note: Some of the vehicle sales "may" inclue 4 doors. 1982 Monte Carlo - 204k 1986 Monte Carlo - 111k 1982 Regal - 222k 1986 Regal - 78k 1982 Toronado - 34k 1986 Toronado - 16k 1982 Grand Prix/Boneville - 158k (Note:GM produced 131k GP in 1981) 1986 Grand Prix/Boneville - 89k (Note: GM Produced 36k GPs in 1986)

By todays standards, the sales were excellent, but after just looking at the sales they were dropping after the release of the Taurus/Sable. And after 1988, that is another story all together. To add insult to injury, I checked out the following: 1984 Riviera 48k 1987 Riviera 16k 1984 Eldorado 70k 1987 Eldorado 21k

The Ford Taurus and the Ford Explorer killed the coupe market in the 1980s. GM is still paying the price today because of the GM-10 fiasco and product mix which was coupe biased and the public moved to more practical vehicles. The market has changed and there is no denying that. That is not to say there is not a market for coupes. But the market has changed and OEMS must be smart about how they style and package their coupes in order to generate the volume they need for profitability. There is only 1 standard in the coupe market and that is the Mustang and should remain so for the near future. Everything else is boutique or niche. That will include the Challenger and the new Camaro will be a hybrid niche/mass program when compared to the Mustang and the 160+ thousand they sell. All three might be Pony cars in theory, but in execution each vehicle will be very different in approach and expectations in the market by the respective manufacturer. Hystorically speaking, coupes did not loose there appeal because of lack of offerening by the OEMs. They began to die out resulting from lack of demand. There is no indication that has changed.

For the money that will be invested into the Challenger, DCX should sell more units at a higher price point and on top of that will get more press time and coverage than they would if they offered 2-door versions of the current LX cars (based up coupe-sedan mix of other vehicles on the market). And, the Challenger is only an LX car with a new look.

Yes - it is called the Challenger.

Friedman's automotive insight is about as irrational as yours. I think you should learn a thing or too from the whole Mr. Friedman escapade.