surreal1272

 

hyper, if you believe Lincoln is no better than Buick, then how would you explain Ford's lessor premium trim that match or exceed Buick with,

 

Focus Titanium

Fusion Titanium

Taurus Titanium

Escape Titanium

Edge Titanium

Explorer Platinum

Flex Titanium

Expedition Platinum

F-150 Platinum

And real soon, SD Platinum to go with their many other premium trims.

 

So of all those premium trimmed Ford brand vehicles, which one does Buick exceed in terms of luxury and features?  Because I don't see one.  I do see a lot of Ford vehicles that offer luxury features that Buick still does not (self park, massaging seats, etc.)

 

Clearly then, Lincoln is above Buick.

Pure opinion, once again, and you have completely missed the many excellent points that hyper6 made while you try to change the argument. Just mentioning Ford's Titanium and Platinum lines proves his point. Ford is trying to be Ford AND Lincoln with their Ford lineup while still selling Lincoln as a Lincoln. Under the definition of "redundancy" it says "see redundant" (credit Robin Williams for that last part).

 

You brought up nothing. You stated that you THINK that Ford's upper trim levels are equal or better than Buick but provided no proof of such. The burden of that proof is on you, not me. There is no validity when there is no proof.

 

 

hyper, if you believe Lincoln is no better than Buick, then how would you explain Ford's lessor premium trim that match or exceed Buick with,

 

Focus Titanium

Fusion Titanium

Taurus Titanium

Escape Titanium

Edge Titanium

Explorer Platinum

Flex Titanium

Expedition Platinum

F-150 Platinum

And real soon, SD Platinum to go with their many other premium trims.

 

So of all those premium trimmed Ford brand vehicles, which one does Buick exceed in terms of luxury and features?  Because I don't see one.  I do see a lot of Ford vehicles that offer luxury features that Buick still does not (self park, massaging seats, etc.)

 

Clearly then, Lincoln is above Buick.

Pure opinion, once again, and you have completely missed the many excellent points that hyper6 made while you try to change the argument. Just mentioning Ford's Titanium and Platinum lines proves his point. Ford is trying to be Ford AND Lincoln with their Ford lineup while still selling Lincoln as a Lincoln. Under the definition of "redundancy" it says "see redundant" (credit Robin Williams for that last part).

 

And you sir missed my ENTIRE point.

 

And which point was that? The one where you claim that Ford's upper trim is better than Buick, even though you have no proof of that? I covered that. You, however, have provided nothing to counter hyper6's claims, that have been proven in the past btw because "Ford One" was the plan years ago, which did not involve Lincoln.

Wings as it is Lincoln is no better than Buick. Now if they follow the path of Cadillac and move Lincoln up then they will have room for the premium Fords.

 

But the risk is you are just selling a fancy version of a car you already sell as a volume value leader. No real prestige or icon luxury status to the Ford line. It is just like selling a higher version of a Impala for $50K  once you get to this price there are some much better names to choose from.

 

If given the choice many in this segment will lean to a lower models BMW or Audi vs. the Ford. A Taurus is a good car but it is still just a Taurus.

 

GM may have taken the same path if it had not been for China but I think that the three brand strategy has it's merits and may pay off in the long run. right now it is too hard to say what will happen as GM has shown so little of the future of Buick at this point. If the Avenir is a hint of the future then things could well pay off.

 

Ford would have almost been better off keeping Mercury and really making them matter. They left them to wither on the vine as they were really no better than any other Ford out there in the end.

 

By the way I got second place over all at the BOP show today. I beat out a really well restored 57 Starchief. I had him picked for best of show but he got third.

Again, well said hyper6. Excellent points on all fronts.

hyper, if you believe Lincoln is no better than Buick, then how would you explain Ford's lessor premium trim that match or exceed Buick with,

 

Focus Titanium

Fusion Titanium

Taurus Titanium

Escape Titanium

Edge Titanium

Explorer Platinum

Flex Titanium

Expedition Platinum

F-150 Platinum

And real soon, SD Platinum to go with their many other premium trims.

 

So of all those premium trimmed Ford brand vehicles, which one does Buick exceed in terms of luxury and features?  Because I don't see one.  I do see a lot of Ford vehicles that offer luxury features that Buick still does not (self park, massaging seats, etc.)

 

Clearly then, Lincoln is above Buick.

Pure opinion, once again, and you have completely missed the many excellent points that hyper6 made while you try to change the argument. Just mentioning Ford's Titanium and Platinum lines proves his point. Ford is trying to be Ford AND Lincoln with their Ford lineup while still selling Lincoln as a Lincoln. Under the definition of "redundancy" it says "see redundant" (credit Robin Williams for that last part).

There are physical volume buttons on the steering wheel, and at least now you can find the swipe bar without looking.

True but old habits die hard sometimes 

More physical buttons for some of the other redundant controls are also a bonus for me. I don't want to search through several screens just to adjust the A/C for example. At least the CT6 seems to address that.

CUE, like iDrive, will evolve rapidly. It'll be fine. As will the CT6. That interior does look good, don't it?

I was a little unsure about the CT6 interior at first but after seeing much closer shots like this one, it has really grown on me. The materials look top notch and any update to CUE is welcome news. No physical volume button is a deal killer for me (I'm old school like that).

Cadillac's situation has been explained many times and this is just yet another attempt by an employee of the competition to try and paint them in a negative light. Just picking up where he left off at another forum site.

Personally I see nothing wrong with the cars themselves but can someone at Cadillac please get that 1994 instrument cluster out of the ATS. It completely ruins an otherwise great car. 

Oh, and I know they did not sell well the last time, but another CTS wagon would be great!

 

 

 

One fact alone propels the CT6 well beyond the Continental.  A RWD chassis.  Let alone all of the other art and science that has gone into the Cadillac.

No doubt the CT6 appears to have 'good bones' and some engineering prowess to back it up.

Trouble is, it will be sitting next to the CTS, which looks nearly identical, is only moderately different in size, and costs $20K less.  Oh, and that is not selling that well to begin with.  So I think the Cadillac could fail based on a combination of too much cost like the failed ELR, and consumer disinterest in that segment (large sedan).  CUV's are the hot ticket right now, plain and simple. Cadillac needs to invigorate that ASAP.  

 

All the major luxo makes cars look similar to each other. An Audi A8 has a similar look to an A6 and a BMW 5 Series looks very similar to a 7 Series. We won't even begin to talk about the Lexus lineup. The CT6 looks no more like a CTS than the four cars mentioned. It's called a family of cars for a reason. They do need to kick up the CUV program though as much as I hate that genre.

 

Having a familiar look is fine, typically, and probably only becomes a potential concern when they are so close in size.  So it would be that concern combined with the huge price delta, that should spell concern for sales. 

 

You are right on one of those (CUVs). The rest is unsubstantiated opinion from an employee of the competition. Love or hate the A&S design language, but it NEVER gets confused for anything but a Cadillac. No one will ever say it looks like a Buick or a Chevy, or any of the competition for that matter. Originality is a rarity in the automotive world and that is where Cadillac trumps the competition, like it or not. They need more variants than anything else, end of story. One only has to look at the Germans to see why. 

 

 

 

One fact alone propels the CT6 well beyond the Continental.  A RWD chassis.  Let alone all of the other art and science that has gone into the Cadillac.

No doubt the CT6 appears to have 'good bones' and some engineering prowess to back it up.

Trouble is, it will be sitting next to the CTS, which looks nearly identical, is only moderately different in size, and costs $20K less.  Oh, and that is not selling that well to begin with.  So I think the Cadillac could fail based on a combination of too much cost like the failed ELR, and consumer disinterest in that segment (large sedan).  CUV's are the hot ticket right now, plain and simple. Cadillac needs to invigorate that ASAP.  

 

All the major luxo makes cars look similar to each other. An Audi A8 has a similar look to an A6 and a BMW 5 Series looks very similar to a 7 Series. We won't even begin to talk about the Lexus lineup. The CT6 looks no more like a CTS than the four cars mentioned. It's called a family of cars for a reason. They do need to kick up the CUV program though as much as I hate that genre.

 

Having a familiar look is fine, typically, and probably only becomes a potential concern when they are so close in size.  So it would be that concern combined with the huge price delta, that should spell concern for sales. 

 

The ATS, CTS, and CT6 are no closer in size to each other than the competition, fact. Their sales struggles have nothing to do with that anyway. Lack of variants, as has been discussed many times, is the bigger problem for Cadillac.

 

One fact alone propels the CT6 well beyond the Continental.  A RWD chassis.  Let alone all of the other art and science that has gone into the Cadillac.

No doubt the CT6 appears to have 'good bones' and some engineering prowess to back it up.

Trouble is, it will be sitting next to the CTS, which looks nearly identical, is only moderately different in size, and costs $20K less.  Oh, and that is not selling that well to begin with.  So I think the Cadillac could fail based on a combination of too much cost like the failed ELR, and consumer disinterest in that segment (large sedan).  CUV's are the hot ticket right now, plain and simple. Cadillac needs to invigorate that ASAP.  

 

All the major luxo makes cars look similar to each other. An Audi A8 has a similar look to an A6 and a BMW 5 Series looks very similar to a 7 Series. We won't even begin to talk about the Lexus lineup. The CT6 looks no more like a CTS than the four cars mentioned. It's called a family of cars for a reason. They do need to kick up the CUV program though as much as I hate that genre.

I'll take the one shown in Casa's first post with an LS7 please. Sharpest color on that car IMO without going black.

Gotta say though, if I had the cash outright I'd find a last year CTS-V Wagon in that same color and call it a day (what can I say? I love my wagons)!

It is baffling the overall lack of concern for that pitiful site. This place is leaps and bounds better in look, feel, control, and material information. Haven't been able to post much because of a now time consuming promotion I got at my job, but I like the overall vibe of the place.

Just like when it won the MT "Best drivers car" award, this car has shocked a lot of people. It is a pure drivers car in a way that no other Camaro before could ever possibly dream of matching. For people who complain about the high price of this car, I say drive one first. I have seen not one review that said that this car was NOT worth the price admission. If Chevy carries this formula over into the new Camaro, this is going to be an instant hit.

New site, new start folks. Even I can say "welcome" Wings.

Currently I live in Peoria, Arizona (NW of Phoenix) but I am originally from NC.

Welcome Bong!

No doubt Sean. 

Didn't realize you were an audio buff Super. I have dabbled in car audio but I wouldn't call myself an expert. Just done my fair share of deck and amp installations on just about all of my rides.

No worries Casa. Just washing my hands of the ridiculousness that is Motortrend.com

No doubt. This place makes the MT forums look like a war torn third world country.

Finally took the nestea plunge and checked this place out. Like what I see so far and thanks to Casa and CP-the-nerd for the invite.

Yeah, starting at $20K, it is no a small investment but being that I will never ride a motorcycle again, I would have one these as an extra toy in a heartbeat. Living in Arizona, there are plenty of sunny days for that ride!

I see those all over the Phoenix area. Want to drive one so bad, I can't stand it! Been looking to see how those rode. Thanks for the info. Frisky.