El Kabong

So you are okay with Ford doing bundles, is what you are saying. GM, on the other hand, "Oh where did we go wrong...". Until they see the rather large absence of options on that V6 Stang. Giving the consumer a CHOICE instead of a one shop bundle price, is always....ALWAYS better for the CONSUMER, assuming final price points with similar hardware, is similar. One price shopping is ALWAYS better for the manufacturer. Where did we go wrong as car lovers, where some believe that not giving customers a choice, is somehow a good thing. And I might add that Ford is offering very little in the way of choices if a buyer wants a V6 Mustang, which was my point to begin with. Again, it's okay when Ford offers little in the way of choice. Pathetic. That's what that backpedalling was.

Not sure why this got downvoted. Anyhow, instead of a mouse click, how about someone explain why this might be any less frustrating than a V8 Canaro that starts at 37 large.

I guess I don't see what the fuss is all about. After all, Car and Driver just did a test of a Mustang droptop that cost 42 grand. And it had an EcoBoost. Sorry folks, but that's just reality.

It's more than just that. With these naturally aspirated DOHC V6es, I feel that customers are getting cheated a bit. They are being sold horsepower ratings that they will never see in the real world. Drew, you really need to qualify a remark like this. I know you are mostly referring to cam-cord V6 automobiles for the general masses, and that's fine, but there are many performance oriented vehicles that benefit with DOHC. But that is my whole point as well, in that the benefits of DOHC path for families of engines that automakers CHOSE to follow....are far more than just a marketing gimmick. Engineering is a balance act of trade-offs, and clearly, the scale tipped to the benefits of DOHC to invest in entire families of engines for your products. A few examples here and there of OHV offering benefits, should not and does not dictate where you invest your engineering $$$$. So yeah, marketing is part of that equation, but a small part. Here is a CTS w/ 3.6L accelerating. I don't know what you see, but what I don't see, is a driver waiting for the hp's to kick in that supposedly never do. What I do see, is a DOHC revving freely right out of the whole, and building momentum, well past where an OHV engine would fall flat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV7Yc3Tr-Yc Just for the record, that is not a CTS. That is an ATS. :D

Ya, it's kinda crazy how straightforward it appears to be.

Yup. And in both cases the Camaro is the one that offers an available eight-speed and more torque. Based on those Shelby weights, I'm guessing the Camaro will be lighter as well. But I'll be a good sport and wait for official numbers on that one.

Yes yes, stick the 40+ guys with 40-grand+ EB four-bangers that struggle to show their tailgates to a Honda Accord and assault their eardrums with four-banger thrum and teakettle whistle. The rental conpanies kids need the refinement of that V6.

Phase I was simply business as usual, which doesn't make it a phase at all, but a continuation of the problem.

I knew I shoulda bet the under :D ...for those just joining us, Drew in fact qualified his remarks. Several times. We now return you to your regularly-scheduled thread.

Definitely the '70. As was already mentioned, it's the factory job. Ralph Gilles himself has apparently contacted Mopar folks shooting down the V6 rumours. Ford is down to one V8 car because they are still trying to hype EcoBoost as a better alternative.

I wish Lincoln success. I just don't expect them to have it with this car.

You can change your name as often as you want, but you can't fix stupid, folks :D

Solid info man. Good stuff!

Duramax SS.

Ccap: in terms of utility, you're right. It probably ain't worth it. And maybe I'm showing my age a bit by saying things the way I do. But I've had fast cars that were unrefined already. I've lived through all the jokes about Detroit building 'em cheap and nasty. And since '08, I've taken GM at their word when they say the restructuring was all about making more conpetitive product. For me, cars like the Camaro are living proof that GM was actually serious about that pledge. And I get that that might mean a bit more pain at the dealership. But one day around mid-2017 I want to be able to pull up next to anything short of a Nissan GTR and know that if I do this right, I've got this guy. Whether the road is straight, or twisty, or bumpy or smooth. And when the really hi-po Camaro bows, I fully expect to have that option.

This goes back to what we were saying in a our thread though: are you a performance-oriented guy or are you a guy who must have a V8? Because lemme tell you: when you can get a RWD sports coupe with 270-ish hp for 27 large, you are living in an age of miracles and wonders (Paul Simon REPRESENT!). That used to be an F-body Z-28. With a solid axle. Yes, I'd love to see a Silverado-engined Alpha for low thirties. But it probably ain't gonna happen. And maybe it doesn't need to.

Sorry man, but I had to test that on your post

I can assure you that anyone looking to get either of these cars in V8 form will be getting them loaded. That means a lot less boxes ticked on the Camaro order sheet than the Ford's, but I doubt the prices will wind up as different as reported, in the real world at least. And while most folks won't outwardly brag about the Alpha platform and whatnot, the extra 20hp, lighter weight, and extra gear ratios in the auto will pay dividends. Put it his way: MT didnt always give the current Mustang the nod over the ZETA Camaro. I have no reason to doubt that the ALPHA version is just gonna roll.

To a point. But the main differences are that GM is happy to give you more (and most folks bellied up for the bling anyhow) whereas Ford refuses to on the V6. And let's be honest: eight-speed automatics, direct-injected V8s, and Cadillac platforms probably bump the price some. But when your immediate competition offers none of those any price differences become theoretical.

Less than 27 grand for the 2.0 Turbo. Good. 37 grand for the SS1 sounds expensive at first. But the stuff that used to be part of the optional (and nearly always purchased) RS package has been rolled into the SS as standard equipment. Only the fours and sixes now allow for a proper RS trim. And I can't lie: I'd like to see orange come back. I want another orange one.

Check it out at: http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2015/aug/0821-camaro.html

What's so dead about the LT4 or Hellcat? It works. It works well.

... even money he took my advice and got the Wild Turkey

And he RUNS THE JOINT!!!

Drew's gone CRAZY!!!