El Kabong

Go back and look at the facts. The Allante and XLR flopped because Cadillac.. or rather GM lost interest and never.. not once really updated these cars after the first year. The XLR was on a C5 platform... even after the C6 debuted. The STS-V didn't flop.. GM changed course in the midst of a BK.. a great deal of programs got moved. The STS lives.. as the CTS and CTS-V What you just described wreaked of little more than a playful and experimental series of new flavors of product by a generous and forward thinking brand, but the reality most know is that Cadillac is not gaining any traction in it's many failed experimental attempts at a ultra premium product. That is why we are wondering about the 8. And it is a valid concern, as we witness the CTS struggling currently without adequate incentive, as they prepare a very similar CT6 that is even more costlier. There in lies the problem.. I have looked at the numbers and voiced my reasons of WHY the CTS, arguably the best in its class.. the ATS.. arguably the best in its class.. are struggling in the sales race. I have said it time and time again. Sales are not the gauge of failure unless sales are the only thing one looks to achieve. Cadillac is in the middle of its first real attempt at taking on the leaders in the field. This is in both material and perception. Sales numbers are a gauge of success in the mainstream, more so in the Luxury segment. Personally I am not one who gets excited when they see another Cadillac pulling up resembling mine. I enjoy the inadvertent exclusivity. If I were a 3series owner who bought for the sake of luxury, or exclusivity I'd be pissed. Hell part of the reason why I was OK with getting rid of my Camaro was because I started seeing them too often. To your point about not gaining traction... Cadillac has already jumped the first, second, and third hurdle. Cadillac is simply better at more things than the German rivals these days. The areas where it lags are fixable, and consistently coming, building.. moving forward. Point blank we are not talking about Lincoln here,, or Lexus. The issues with Cadillac normally can be summed up in lack of marketing, lack of product, and a reluctance to, up til recently, Dare Greatly. CUE is fixed. The larger backseat is coming in 2 years.. not that its a concern to me. Escalade, ATS/ CTS-V, and CT6 will prime the world for the CT8. Anyone thinking that this would be a quick fix hasn't looked at the reality of things for a long time. Cadillac isn't just battling within the realm of the segment, but battling within the automotive industry because of its origin. The entire brand actually is a mimic of the Corvette. 95% better than the foreign exotics competition, but marred and historically held back because of where it originated. I hope Cadillac simply builds the better car... Precisely. And I read your comments about the ATS droptop not being ready to go whereas the Camaro droptop is. All I'd say to that is that the Camaro isn't going on sale for a few months yet, and it's possible that the ATS is further along in its development than GM is letting on. Otherwise... ya, bit frustrating. The bottom line for me is that Cadillac's efforts, while not being as all-encompassing as they should be product-wise, are worthy of respect. Bluntly put, respect is earned through honest effort, and some would do well to clue in to this ASAP. Nobody cares about mailed-in efforts anymore, and nobody who knowingly trumpets them is worthy of a serious hearing.

*sigh* ...as we all know, Cadillac's sales woes aren't reason to throw up one's hands and quit. That's what lesser automakers do. The Alpha platform will be profitable, so Cadillac was wise to procure it. Choosing to ignore the obvious does not make the obvious go away :D And speaking of ignoring the obvious... here's a superb example of what happens when you try to make prime rib out of hamburger, courtesy of Dearborn Motor Company: http://m.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-lincoln-mkc-20t-fwd-test-review ...wow. Now THERE'S some damning with faint praise. "Competent pod." Maybe they'll get it right someday. But clearly not today. Sheesh

Thanks. And to think that I was banned from MT for trolling. Maybe I should just post some pics of skid marks in a 7-11 parking lot. That's more their speed these days

Dinner with him, mom, and the missus. I don't have kids, so for me it's just another weekend.

Sleep deprivation can be fun if you don't have anything of consequence to do while you're slogging through it. Badgers, badgers, badgers.

The ALLANTE? We're going back thirty years to pick holes in Cadillac? Ok then... Why don't we make fun of BMW for doing a drop-door Z1? Or Mercedes for their 134hp five-banger diesel in an S-Class? Talk about grasping at straws. Yeesh

Back in my old place there was a guy who absolutely hounded me on what I thought the CT6 would sell like. He thought that being a GM fan I would trot out some wildly inflated number that would be easy to pick holes in. I will say here what I said there: in all likelihood it will sell in high four/low five figures annually. Sales numbers aren't going to come right away when you're pushing into these segments, because brand loyalties are too strong. Anyways, when that guy read what I thought it would sell like he quieted down a bit and went back to trying to moderate the place. Which is a story for another day, possibly

Nonsense. Excellence for the sake of excellence is a desirable thing. Leave the mediocrity to lesser automakers

But if you drive your EB fast it gets lousy FE. You can't have Eco and Boost, remember? And with two more gears in its transmission than a Ford it's not like the EcoDiesel is exactly slow. But hey, you keep fighting the good fight for a lost cause. It keeps me entertained, if nothing else

Seeing as how there were zero CT6-sized cars sold before they drafted the Omega's engineering budget, my answer would be: still quite a lot.

If a human chooses poorly for themselves, there are the courts and prisons. If a robot chooses poorly for its owner, does it go on trial?

The thing is, eventually the buying public stop being fooled. I don't think it's a coincidence that the F-Series is losing market share while shoving EB down everyone's throats. And I now know through personal experience why there's a 20-ish percent take rate on the EcoDiesel.

And as was noted in the opening post, it's not like you're actually saving fuel with turbo V6 engines. The article even links to Ford's mileage retractions and everything. Sorry man. GM's smallblock, and in particular Ram's EcoDiesel, offer far less sticker shock at the pump. That's just the way it is

Ok. Now, do it for gas and diesel prices of $1.25/L and $1.05/L respectively, with an improvement of, say, 5L/100km for the diesel, averaging 20,000km/year (I'll be nice and use 87 Octane, and lowball my observed mileage jump): That's 1,000 fewer litres per year. If it was gasoline for gasoline that alone would be $1,250 saved annually. But it's not, it's diesel. So throw on another 20 cents saved per litre. That takes you to $1,450 saved annually. Stretch that over three years and you're at $4,350, which I'm pretty sure more than covers the cost of the EcoDiesel. Bit of a discrepancy, wot?

The facts on Diesel are clear just like CNG. The up front cost are bigger than petrol but if you hold for more than 3yrs, you not only gain your money back but reduce the long term cost. ROI or return on Investment has always been at least 3yrs. Now with pickup trucks, SUV's and medium duty trucks you are looking at about 18 months for ROI of Diesel and CNG based on 15K miles a year driving. 3 years you say?I did the math for an EcoDiesel relative to a Hemi engine, and it over 10 years to recover costs. All the while you are stuck with far less performance and towing and capability. And yet I look at my fuel gauge and yearly mileage and your math doesn't add up for me. Maybe you need to do it better.

I will give credit where it is due: Sergio Marchionne was able to get Chrysler for next to nothing, and he was probably the driving force behind getting their interiors up to snuff. Also, he seems to give performance guys like Ralph Gilles a long leash. But I still fear that if push comes to shove he will just starve Chrysler for cash to prop up Fiat.

Clearly you never saw Star Trek II. So now, riddle me this: who would buy a self-driving car if you're typically in it by yourself? Your car would always put you at the bottom of any pecking order in an accident scenario, plus it would do so without you being responsible for any of the things that occurred to get you to that point in the first place!

People want what they want. The savings at the pump don't have to overcome any theoretical price disadvantage if the retained value is also higher. In any event, in my neck of the woods diesel is 25 percent cheaper than the mid grade I used in my Longhorn (yes, I am that particular about following the recommended fuel guidelines). I literally cut my fuel bill in half. I have little doubt I will be recouping the added cost. Besides, EB doesn't deliver the claimed FE in pickups. You're better off with a Hemi or a smallblock. At least you get a proper eight-speed.

^^^ this is EXACTLY my fear. Benz, Cadillac, Audi.. any of them... This is a technology I simply have no desire to see come to fruition.. and if a vote ever comes to play on the political side.. I would personally cast a vote to not allow for it. The only caveat being.. N.A. would be behind in the tech.. but then again since GM and Ford are both global entities they could implement it in other countries to stay with the other makers in terms of advancement Can you imagine being the software engineer being asked to do the protocols for that? The legal ramifications would be an absolute nightmare. Orwellian, really.

I'm getting pretty decent mileage outta my EcoDiesel so far... Bit over 1000km and last I checked it was at 10.4L/100km combined. By way of reference my Hemi was getting more like 16. Turbocharged V6 engines failing to meet listed mileage estimates?... Sounds like another EcoBoost thread's a brewing...

In related news, Kirk Kerkorian just died a few days ago. GM should tell Sergio to get bent.

Potentially, it's even scarier when machines succeed. Consider, say, an autonomous SUV has one passenger and is in a situation where a collision with a school bus is imminent. Does the computer in the SUV do a risk analysis and decide that crashing itself into a tree will only risk one life, or does protecting its own occupants take priority regardless of the number of kids who may become casualties?

But we got it over 200. And in a way that says it all. ...should we go for 2,000?

Thought that occurred to me as I browsed through other forums: it doesn't matter if you upgrade your forum software if you cater to trolls. It's like using fine china to serve Pogos.

the second point is accurate. They have yet to throw out good product.