FUTURE_OF_GM

NICE!!!!

Well, what the press predicts WILL come true, in time.. Just wait. They'll get their wish. Who knew they would've been so efficient these past few years though? Especially after they all sold us so well on a revival. And, surprise-surprise, the BIGGEST load of garbage is coming from one of the most import biased sources, Detroit Free Press. Keep killing those stock prices! Good job! (Sarcasm) First they destroyed Chrysler (Whic resulted in a sell off) Then they destroyed Ford (Which would've resulted in bankruptcy or a sell off had the Ford family still not been involved and now it's GM's turn. Time to slay the dragon. American media: 3 and 0 GOOD! IF GM FAILS?!?!?!?!? IF GM FAILS?!?!?! This COUNTRY failed GM. Payback is fair game. EXACTLY... Soon, we'll have more people than jobs in this country and I'm not talking about the typical 5% unemployment rate. Either you secure your future through competition and education or you have no future because other americans DO NOT care about your well being and the government CERTAINLY doesn't either obviously or they wouldn't have been AWOL for the last 10-15 years. :rolleyes: Well, it looks like all those "awesome new vehicles and possibilities" were a bunch of smoke screens and mirrors AGAIN. I think we ALL know the answer to that, especially the media and analysts.

More bad news and more "ENCOURAGEMENT" for the destruction of GM An "Old Economy" giant <_< Because, you know, our new "SERVICE" (We service everyone :)) economy is ficticious...

[quote]Amen AH-HA. You'd think we were on the Toyota message boards from the responses we're getting from people here. This is the one of the best GM products to come out in over a decade and it's not good enough for them. Fine. Be bitter. I don't care. It's getting to the point where I'm not enjoying coming to this website anymore. People are being too bitchy.[/quote] Give me a break... It's all about OTHER peoples opinions here. First, if you promote GM all the time people b*tch because we're too biased, eventhough, *GASP* we're a GM site. Now turnabout seems to be fair play as in if we DO NOT support GM then you're pissed and don't want to come here all of the sudden.. So which is it folks? Do you want us to support GM or NOT and do you want us to be HONEST about our opinions or not? Besides, no one says anyone here has to read what I post. [quote]If I want to hear someone complain about GM, I'd go to Autoweek or Autoblog.[/quote] So you want to hear cheerleading??? (Pertaining to the question) [quote]The fact remains that the new Escalade is a great vehicle. Much better than the current one, and I like the current Escalade. It's moving upscale and providing a more universal look to the A&S theme.[/quote] And therein lies the problem.... I can buy a "better quality" universal Toyota. Cadillac should NOT be "universal" that is Chevrolet's job or even GMC's job... Cadillac is a niche company that CONVEYS a certain attitude, style and presence... SUCCESS, not commonality or universalism. People did not buy the old Escalade because it was universal, People do not buy the CTS because it is universal, people do not buy the 300C becuse it is universal... If I based my purchase on logic, not emotion, then as an average consumer I'm going to buy the statistically "better" car and I'm not going to spend $60,000 on it. [quote]If you guys don't like change, go buy a Toyota or a Hyundai. Their cars are all formed from the same dull piece of clay. You won't be dissapointed with each new model since it will look the same as the last model.[/quote] Jesus Christ man, have you looked at GM cars lately???? Have you looked at GMT900?!?!?!?!? I'd SAY same piece of clay!!! [quote]No, AH-HA is right. Y'all are being brutal, calling this thing a "Yukon clone" and other such rubbish. There is a large amount of differentiation between the three GMT-900s, more than there was on the 800s or really ever has been in the past of these vehicles.[/quote] Yeah right! [quote]YET the people on C&G are still finding things to b!tch about. Y'all are hopeless.[/quote] Yet another fool on his high horse... Let's kiss up to AH-HA and act better than the average poster... I feel like puking. [/quote]This Escalade features an ALL-NEW interior that is very much DISTINCT from the Tahoe/Yukon.[/quote] Yes, but not better. The Denali interior *LOOKS* a lot more attractive and has a WAY better steering wheel. [quote]The front is all new. For crying out loud the thing doesn't even have a grille! It has sixteen minigrilles located in the front sheet metal! Look at some more pictures...that is sheet metal between the grilles, not plastic.[/quote] Wow... Something featured on Pontiac's for a year now. [quote]So WHOOPS! there goes some of your arguments about "just swapped out a Yukon grille" I mean please how ignorant can you get?[/quote] Look at the BASIC shape and body lines.... How ignorant can you be not to see it? Although, the detailing in the grille is awesome. [quote]Cadillac shouldn't be "in your face" with its styling. That just makes it another wannabe luxo-marque. Cadillac should have distinct styling that is CLASSY. NOT overdone. NOT tacky, and YES, the GMT800 Escalade is TACKY in every aspect and every sense of the word. [/quote] It was awefully successful to be so "tacky" [quote]Any production and sales from GMC could easily be rolled into Chevrolet. It's the same old problem of "too many divisions and too many models" at General Motors and there's no way you can argue against that....[/quote] Sure there is; brand loyalty, volume sold by that franchise, conquesting (Which GMC does VERY well) etc. [quote]Back in the 2000 time frame there was a business being drawn up to do just that, get rid of GMC and Olds. GMC was saved at the time because the fleet mix was changing towards light trucks. Things appear to be changing the other way right now. You fail to take into consideration that there is a huge marketing cost associated with supporting the clones and the brand. Not to mention the structural and human costs.[/quote] So we're going to kill off divisions intermitently now based on changing market trends? Geez, I would've thought all of GM's divisions would be goners by now. NOW, all this said, the more I look at it (In half decent PR shots-as opposed to the initial) the more the new Escalade is growing on me... :)

First; yes we did. BECAUSE that IS what GM told us when and after the Sixteen debuted. And second; no, it seems that the future of Cadillac design will be even more watered down than the Sixteen.

Well, it's a Lutz vehicle so I'd expect a lot of 90's and jellybean crap. And, HEY, look at that..... The Denali even has a nicer interior (Style-wise) It's the EXACT same front as the Yukon, just with a different grille bolted in and different headlight covers.. LAME GM.... LAME. Sorry AH-HA, I mean no disrespect, but I'm sure it'll look just as bad at the show. Of course, I will be nice and give it ONE MORE CHANCE. Whatever.... I'm sorry for being so negative guys, but damn I'm just fed up with empty GM promises... How hard can it be to get the look of a new Escalade right? This is probably one of the biggest GM icons in 20-30 years and they go and SCREW it up by making it look like a Landau edition of a 'plebian' GMC Yukon. Jesus, they changed the front for the Tahoe, why not Cadillac? It's half baked IMO. But, I hope an in person look makes me change my opinion :rolleyes: I'm not even going to justify that with a response, everyone here knows where my loyalty lies. EDIT: Okay, in the new PR shots it's REALLY starting to grow on me.... But, I'm still not pleased with the abandonment of A&S and I still think it could've been differentiated more... That's right, I like it and I'm not afraid to admit that I was wrong, EXCEPT on my above points, which are major.

So the Escalade will retain sales... GOOD But will it conquest like the old one did? Absolutely not... A big thank you to Lutz for completely ruining Cadillac... And any other division at GM that had a design direction. My sentiments exactly... Why buy this when you can get a MORE stylish vehicle with MOST of the innovation for half the price?

Apparently pretty damn hard... So much for A&S The interior, while nice, is still not that stylish... GM said they would out do Ford with the new 900 interiors, guess that was a lie as the Navigator and F-150/Mark LT interiors are WAY more stylish.

You know what I think really throws the front off is the DTS-esque lower fascia... It looks like crap on the DTS and it looks no better here.

Well whaddaya know... It's even got the same grille shape as the Yukon... Same interior, (I'm not impressed) a WORSE lower fascia and the new retarded skinny Caddy headlights... No differentation at all on the side...... This might be the breaking point for me.. I mean how unintelligent do you have to be to screw up a launch like this? Lutz has officially RUINED Cadillac and it's momentum. Oh and how could the GM PR people "Forget" a product launch? If they did "forget" then they need to be fired immediately.

I would probably vote for Hilary... Not because of her political affiliation (They're all the same to me) but because 1) I think she's intelligent enough to be a good leader and 2) It would be a nice breath of fresh air. CLASSIC!!! I agree 100% I agree and I think it's because of the media and it's opinions/CONSTANT criticisms of Bush. Bush is president and they can't/won't accept that so they whine and gripe about it EVERY day and now they've begun to sway people. If you're told something enough then you'll begin to agree with it. I'm not trying to start a war as I'm neither liberal nor conservative; I'm apathetic thanks to the constant bickering between the two.

Exactly everything tht I feared.. A blandized Tahoe with a massive overbite.

I never said I disagreed with that part of it. Wow, that's A LOT of stereotyping. Personally I think it's just because of anti-military sentiment. And I've experienced this first hand, since I live in the "east coast san francisco" and was looked at like a baby killer when I put on my JROTC uniform. Interesting... Haven't heard anything about this, it does shed some light on the subject though. www.dictionary.com : Crusade- A vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse. I disagree, but I'm not going to start a political debate. Just watch 99% of the news and you'll see what I'm getting at and it's working, of course with OTHER factors, but it is working.

Anyone hear about the bill SanFran voted in favor of pertaining to firearms? 52 to 48: It proclaims that San Francisco OUTLAW firearms within the city limits and has provisions that would make it against the law for military recruiters to set foot on high school or college campuses. Sad day in america.... indeed. Big day for Democrats overall, looks like the media crusade is working.

Umm I dunno, take yer pick; an ACTUAL Cadillac SUV, NOT another Tahoe, "The sixteen-esque Escalade" we've been told about, Art & Science, even a proportionate design maybe? Okay, I admit, I'm just playing devils advocate with this post. Maybe it's just form of habit.. I mean, we have been conditioned to hate GM for 30 years regardless of what they do ;) Isn't that statement an oxymoron? I mean, the majority of volume from GMT900 suvs has been shown, yet we need to WAIT to talk when the vehicles have been shown? It's a blog. Would you prefer there be no discussion? And besides, I touched on MANY other points merely using the new Escalade as a springboard.

Yeah, I can definately see your point on the 90's cars (I guesss my mind had glossed some of those over)

I agree 100%

ABSOLUTELY! I'd live there if I could. Around here we don't have much anymore, I dunno why as we used to have one on every corner. But I love getting the cars out and going to them when I know of one. But when I move to Charlotte during school it should be even better. Seems like there's always something going on in that area. This past weekend I went to the cruise on the "Dale Trail" in Kannapolis (named after Dale Earnhardt--his home town) and loved every mintue of it... Those people are my people... EVERYONE seems to have a car or know a lot about them (I guess since the town was so NASCAR oriented) Too bad my Camaros wont be making the move with me :( Im saw one of the coolest rides I've ever encountered and have pix on my phone. It was an all original 1952 Packard ambulance. The lights and siren still worked and it was a little rusty, but VERY cool. Still had the Packard straight eight in it. Oh and cavigirl found a 70's (Not sure what year she said exactly) BOSS 429 Mustang that she said is pretty rare. (She's the Mustang expert, I'm the Camaro guy) It was ultra cool and looked excellent parked next to what I assumed was the same owners, same color (black) 2005 Mustang GT.

I'll be there the first night to see it. Johnny Cash was and will always be one of my heroes.

Meh... Not that I care much, I don't vote. I think only like 15% of the voting population turned out for the primaries here... Sad. But what's even more sad is that many, like me, have realized that our entire political system and it's "elections" is a joke and just don't bother anymore... "On.. through.. the.. never.. WE MUST GO. OUT TO THE edge.. of.. for.. ever.. WE MUST GO. Then never comes." --MetallicA I dunno, that lyric just popped into my head since I'm sure people will be calling me blind and naive for not voting but obviously it's more an issue of apathy.

Aztek: Although ugly, was distinctive. Torrent: Although attractive, is the same thing as a Chevrolet SUV I can buy. Park Avenue: Distinctly Buick, with the oval styling theme carried by the division and it's concepts for years. Lucerne: Where the hell did these headlights and tailights come from? Doesn't bear ANY resemblence to the Lacrosse or classic Buicks and is that lower bumper from a Cobalt? 2005 Yukon Denali: Distinctive "sleeper" look with lots of bling-bling, very different wheels, cladding. 2007 Yukon Denali: A regular Yukon with slightly different wheels and a chrome grille and NOTHING to differentiate the profile. Cadillac CTS: Racy, heritage inspired styling. Cadillac DTS: Same interior as a 'plebian' Buick. The list goes on... The Zarella cars weren't all great or even good, but each division had a logical styling theme (and excellent ones at that) that didn't intertwine with OTHER divisions. Just look at the Zarella concepts for proof, compared to the "Same general look" Lutz concepts. For example; the difference between the concept Lacrosse and Imaj or Terradyne compared to the concept Solstice, SS or the GMC Graphyte which all share the same "fat, broad, with organic headlight/tailight shapes" characteristics.

[quote]Obviously, everyone is entitled to their opinion as this is a discussion forum about primarily GM vehicles. But I find it kind of strange that AH-HA said that he never owned a domestic car before and when he went to the GM future car preview he was extremely impressed by what he saw; he would even strongly consider buying several of them if he was in their respective markets. I thought that most of the members here are (supposedly) GM fans, and to hear all this negativity towards camoed vehicles made to look ugly and to confuse people as to their true designs makes me laugh. [/quote] ***This is not directed at anyone specifically, I just used trimnell1's post as a tie in to prove a point.*** [random post] You know this accusation crap; it really never ends... If you root FOR GM, then "You're a GM cheerleader" and "The bias is ridiculous" and "You would be respected more if you weren't so close-minded" eventhough this is a GM website, not a Toyota humper's den. Then, when you show disdain for GM and voice your opinion against GM it's; "I thought you guys were GM fans" or "You're dumb, this car has success written all over it" or "Wow, you're so close-minded." It gets VERY old and it's simply a difference of opinions. Just pointing that out. [/random post] [quote]I'll tell you what. The new CTS? It'll blow your socks off.[/quote] I agree. [quote]The new Trailblazer? I'll blow your underwear off. The new Envoy? It'll blow your boxers off.[/quote] Which apparently now, we'll never see because of gas prices... Thank goodness, I can't afford new underwear. [quote]You get the idea. These vehicles right now are gap vehicles.[/quote] And therein lies the problem my friend...... GMT900 NEVER, EVER SHOULD'VE BEEN A "GAP" VEHICLE. That's suicide. GMT800 had style, distinction (How little it migh've been in some areas) and class leading attributes. The new trucks, while very nice, just don't seem to share that razor sharp edge. And I'm sure the media will let us know it too, every chance they get. I'm fed up with the promises and half-assing. Cadillac will soon have an AWESOME CTS and what looks to be a handicapped Escalade. That's half hearted to me and the lack of consistency is annoying at the very least. For example: I've ALWAYS bled GM platlettes, you all know that. But, we're I in the market for a mid size car, I'd buy a Fusion.. We're I in the market for a full-size car, I'd be hard pressed to not buy a Charger. That's just 2 examples of HUGE markets where GM needs to get with the game and it's bad when a GM-nazi like myself is tempted elsewhere. [quote]As for the whole Zarrella thing and 80s/90s vehicles... First off, Zarrella was in marketing. Second, yes he sucked. Third, yes many vehicles were crap. Fourth, you're missing the point. Whether they were unreliable, were of low quality materials, and had terrible fit/finish is totally irrelevant. Most of that is what ruined GM, not the designs. They were more distinctive whether you liked them or not. Atleast the 90's ones were. Now most GM vehicles all look bland, watered down, and the same - inside and out. Kind of like the 70's and some of the 80's all over again...[/quote] Thank you very much BV... That's exactly what I was trying to say. [quote]BTW, the CTS was a Zarella-era vehicle... It is still regarded as one of GM's best even as vehicles with Lutz's touch roll-out. It basically turned around Cadillac's image. Lutz admitted that he would not have approved such a vehicle. Would it be fear of taking chances like GM needs to? As I look across GM's latest lineup... I'd say that's why.[/quote] He also said he wouldn't have greenlighted the 300C. That's because Lutz doesn't know anything other than ORGANIC style... To him EVERYTHING must consist of organic, whittled or honed down shapes with abstract accents. This works for things such as roadsters because of their purity and purpose, but NOT for SUV's and luxury cars. As a result of that, we have Art & Science relegated from "youth, intensity and technology" to "mature, soft and traditional" and that's not a good thing since the STYLING (Not as much technology and dynamics) the sense of style, is what transformed Cadillac's image. Then you add the rest of the divisions to the mix; Buick has went from GORGEOUS retro-esque show stoppers to half VW, half watered down A&S hybrids with a Ford-oval-esque accent. Pontiac is hanging on with it's bland-ized 90's update look. GMC is stealing Chevrolet's trademark oval tailights and has tamed "Terra" down to looking somewhat like a new Buick and somewhat like an old Cadillac. and Chevrolet is the catch-all with two cars that show about a 10% resemblance to the SS, except without the theived tailights, and a mix N match of various other ethnic styling cues. Then Saturn, with a straight from Europe appearance, for a straight from the South division. Maybe I'm being too harsh (Probably am, since a lot of the new cars aren't bad cars) but at least in the Zarella era EVERY division had direction instead of doing completely random things. And I hope Lutz and comapny make me eat crow. If they do then I'll salt that bad boy up and chow down, because I hope they do for GM's sake. But as of now, I'm still not sure the corporation is living up to it's potential.

They're just trying to gain credibility with the "In" crowd or a.k.a anti-Detroit crowd.

I wonder why we haven't seen more media exposure? I've already seen 1 Maxx SS and 1 GP GXP on the road, yet only seen 1 short GP GXP article and nothing on either the Malibu SS or Maxx SS. Meh, it's not like it matters much anyway, I'm sure they'll just be full of ridicule.

Who knows.... It's like Aveo... The original commercials were A-vao with a flat sound and now some are A-veo with an "e" sound. I think I alternate between the two on Impala.