razoredge

another problem The impact on supply infrastructure is going to be difficult, but manageable. Ethanol cannot efficiently be transported in pipelines (either straight or blended) because it picks up too much water. That means ethanol will have to be transported by truck, barge and rail into regional terminal locations for blending. Marketers and retailers will also face some issues, though not nearly as great as those faced upstream. more trucking/shipping = more fuel consumption

OK this explains the loss of fuel mileage as well as gain in mileage from diesel from http://www.e85fuel.com/forsuppliers/e85techinfo.php E85 AND ENERGY CONTENT – how much energy is there? What is the real energy content of E85? How many btus in a gallon of E85 in comparison to unleaded gasoline? For that matter, what is a btu? How far can a vehicle operate on E85 in comparison to gasoline? The first step in answering these commonly asked questions is to determine a common denominator. There is only one common unit of measurement in reference to energy, the British Thermal Unit (btu). This is a standard unit for measuring heat energy. One btu represents the amount of heat required to raise one pound of water one degree Fahrenheit at sea level. More commonly, one btu is the energy produced by a typical wooden kitchen match. According to the American Automobile Manufacturers Association, a gallon of typical gasoline contains 114,132 btu’s. However, even this amount of energy content changes from summer to winter as gasoline’s volatility is seasonally adjusted. For the purposes of this summary, we assume the following: 1 U.S. Gallon of gasoline contains 114,132 btu 1 U.S. Gallon of no. 2 diesel fuel contains 138,000 btu 1 U.S. Gallon of ethanol contains 76,000 btu 1 U.S. Gallon of methanol contains 56,800 btu 1 U.S. Gallon of propane contains 84,500 btu 1 U.S. Gallon of compressed natural gas contains 19,800 btu Ethanol is denatured by adding 5 gallons of gasoline to 100 gallons of ethanol (4.76%), therefore: Ethanol @ 76,000 btu/gal x 95.24% = 72,382 Gasoline @ 114,132 btu/gal x 4.76 = 5,433 Denatured ethanol = 77,815 btu/gallon E85 is then a blend of denatured ethanol and gasoline, therefore: Denatured ethanol @ 77,815 btu/gal x 85% = 66,143 Gasoline @114,132 btu/gal x 15% = 17,120 E85 = 83,263 btu/gal E85 - how much energy is there? Page Two In an arithmetic sense, 1 volumetric gallon of E85 represents 73% of the btu value of gasoline. Should an assumption be made that if E85 contains 27% less btu’s than a gallon of gasoline, the vehicle will travel 27% less miles on the same number of gallons of fuel? Does this mean that it costs 27% more to operate a vehicle on E85 than on unleaded gasoline? The answers to the preceding questions are NO! There will indeed be a loss in fuel mileage when a vehicle is operated on E85. Actual driving experiences indicate that the loss of fuel mileage in a vehicle using E85 will range from 5% to 12% depending on the driver and the conditions of the terrain.

I wish I understood more about this E85. Like how or why a engine needs to be built to run it. Some type of combustion chamer issue ? Fuel system issue ? Is this something none of the older cars can run on ? Its ethanol right ? I wonder how much different it is from what the moonshiners used to run in their cars during the depression............I heard stock car (NASCAR) got its rootes from old shine runners. Does this mean what is old is now new again ? Will we be able to tap our fuel tanks at parties and get down with it. I'll go do a search but any info or known links would be appreaciated. Corn burning stoves were supposed to be another new alternative for heat. Apparently the corn needs to be dried to X% inorder to work properly. I questioned using vast amounts of LP to dry corn so it could then be used for fuel. I wonder the process to make this E85. Can it be used to fire current steam turbine electric plants or will all that stuff need to be rebuilt ?

Dont know about the effectiveness of it but it was sure great to hear some B U I C K advertising. The commercial ran many times and the car was involved in the show and had direct dialoge refering to the 2006 Buick Lucerne in the scritp. We are regular viewers of these types of programs.

Sorry to hear that Dave, what was your lines of work if you care to tell ? Michigan does sound bad, it has been for decades hasnt it ? Decent jobs are hard to come by around here, either your starved to death or the better paying jobs (construction) demand 12 hour days + X on Sat. and then life just sucks. Ive been through so many the past 7 years. I have to say, its always me walking though, Ive never had a problem keeping employers satisified. My problem is I also want a life. 68 -72 hour weeks suck ! You cant buy back your live and the years just evaporate when you work like that. Its sad we allowed our country to get turned upside down the past few decades. Our parents and Grandparents worked hard to make sure work didnt interfer with the quality of life, Now there is no security or boundrys of what an employer can demand of you. Ive told more than one "Im looking for a job not a new area code!" "Last time I checked my address was....................." Sad thing is so many guys love it. They cant stand to be around their wife or children or do work around the house & property so they go to work and stay there. Their idea of a great day off at home is a case of beer and the ridin lawn mower on Sunday. I always saw more for my life than a case of beer and a rider.

NASCAR is my least favorite form of racing but I cant imagine that everyone that likes NASCAR or would go to this movie is some type of inferior being unworthy of sharing oxygen with..........I have met people that are unworthy of oxygen, most of whom apply stereotypes "oh no!, Im all alone in a dark room with a bunch of..................... NASCAR people" ew chillin evil no, insecure yes

Sorry Loki, I just dont know much about it. Thanks for the link it was an interesting read and helps me understand more. This is how Pontiac describes it in the G6 promo booklet. New for 2006 is a 240-hp 3.9L V6 with sequential fuel injection, standard and only available in the G6 GTP. Proving the adage "theres no replacement for displacement" its speciality is a wide power band, thanks to an advanced variable intake system. Around town, incoming air is routed through a tract tuned for maximum economy and responsiveness. Put your foot down, and a second, larger intake tract opens, while the intake valve timing is changed to an aggressive high-performance profile for a habit forming surge of acceleration. This two for one lets the 3.9L provide 85% of its 240 lb-ft of torque from 1600 rpm to 6000 rpm, and kick to accelerate from 0-60 in 6.6 seconds. It does seem to work quite well and we are averageing 24.7 mpg with our hilly country driving. Which also includes occasional "put her down" attitude. Fill ups off interstate and back on interstate showed a maintained 29.7 mpg on the DIC but we have not gone a full tank on any interstate to see if this kind of average could be maintained. So with that said the 3.9 in the GTP is getting slightly better mileage than the SC3800 in our LSS. Our LSS on long trips maintained 26-27 MPG interstate driveing but is around 23-24 here in the hill counrty. As for how the power comes on I still like the SC 3800, its just more solid through out the powerband but that is most likely the extra 40 lb.ft. and typical torque grunt expected from the 38, combine that with the superchargers continous increasing feeding capacitys and the 4 speeds long legs (50mph in first), the old L67 is just a treat to drive. The 3.9 pulls hard once above 3000 in proper gear and is equally as fast or faster than the L67, it just doesnt feel the same in conventional driveing when you just need a little bit more. The 3.9 combined with the 6 speed makes you work a little more to get it in its sweet spot. The SC3800 is always in its sweet spot. That said I surely hope if GM is going to keep this 3.9 around they quickly do neccessary internal engine work and engine systems maping to apply the Eaton M90 to the 3.9......................what a beast that will be while still maintaining respectable mileage for the power output. As for the variable intake system being applied to other engines, who knows ? Seems to work well for the 3.9 but the 3.9 is still behind the competitions recent DOHC engines, though it does its performance on 87 octane.

Heres one that would better suit real FWD GM enthousiasts

So...............what is a "lexus" ?

Interesting you should say this. I only saw one show. He redid a first gen Camaro or Firebird (forget) for a soldier in Iraq. He used a rear quarter paint graphic that looked remarkablly like the Cudas and had seats put in it that had Cobra embroidered into them. The car looked great but as a GM enthousiast I would be quite angry if someone put Mopar graphics and seats that said Cobra on them in my classic Camaro or Firebird. I just didnt get the creativity angle involved with those decisions. Excellent work otherwise.

Your absolutely right. There is no telling what makes auto rags bias and stupid...............they just are. Journalists, news broadcasters and critics have always been amounst the lowest of socioties rodents. Those that can do and those that cant critize.

On SUBJECT ! Jag was never much more than a tiny nitch company, most of which collapsed in the 70's when the "need nothing more than a bowl of rice" labor force began building cars in volumn for the recent gas conscience American market. There was never a level playing field after that. Then there was all the problems with the tempermental characteristics of the cars. Then the bad reputation was built. The the price of parts and service was through the roof. Then Ford bought them and made Jags glorified Contours and Taurus's hardly what we had always thought of Jaguar as being. The XK8 came out in 96.........then what ? These types of car companies have always been hard to keep afloat. The US market was always vital in doing so. Now produce a car that looks like a Taurus and try to pawn it off on what was a typical potential Jaguar customer and you have a recipe for disaster. Remember Aston Martin just had its first profitable year in its history. This could change really fast with a company that sells only a few models in the high tax bracket. I hate to see this happen, be it Oldsmobile, Jaguar, Packard, British Leyland or Bugatti. If your gonna sit back and let the East take over the world expect no different.

This isnt supposed to be a game, when are you going to stop your bull$h! ? If you got something to say, say it. Instead you just pop out with little one liners which mostly seem to prove you have nothing to say. I realize you are on the site while you are supposed to be working so perhaps you dont have time to elaborate.............but if that is the case why do you spend so much time insulting people ? Everyone is apparently supposed to hold you in awe...........well I guess everyone needs a hero

Wondering why you say that ?

Its interesting to read these guys struggling to use important words for descriptions. I think they may just be a bunch of romance novel authors in denial. Its also interesting to see that many "comparisions" are so close that the human cant detect the difference so now they need to use "devices" to determine whats louder or has the least deflection and somehow we are still supposed to consider these .02 differences important. Im not sure if the V6 Lucerne is supposed to be in this catagory but they would have riped it apart had it been so its most likely just as well. I would like to note had a V6 Lucerne with the L67 or L32 engine been available it would have performed on par in all engine performance catagories including mileage. Both the Toy and VW required premium gas so that would not have been an issue and at 260/280 for the L32 it would have gotten the job done. But nooooooooooooo! Buick is not allowed to use that currently available engine anymo Hyundias 10/100,000 and low price are brought to the forefront once again Toyota wins by it chrome plated name (drivers knee air bags ) Passat out performs and is the only one of the three that doesnt look like ass gone bad........so naturally it can not win I would think if they wanted to replicate any photo or test they would have gone with the Buick, Mercury and some Chrysler

Whats a "lexus" ? now that was funny, put your eyes, ears and thinking cap on next time you read a post. Some is my opinion about the direction and values of our socioty as applied to automobiles in this day and age. Cars are too heavy and the Lucerne in no exception. The nearly same exact car with all the luxury and none of the gimmicks weighed only 3300lb way back 20 years ago. Another point is about putting the "tec" in important places which is probably not the ego or "status" (your word). GM is about to be hard core trumped by the hybrids and the best they have to counter is heated washer and steering wheel, ONstar and tire pressure monitoring ? Gas milage is selling cars today and GM is not ready with anything they have not already had for the past 1 and in some instances 2 decades. Froze your butt off chizling ice ? 5 whole minutes before a car heats up? Oh, my poor little fingies, what ever shall I do................grew up where ? defrosters not working ? warm car up first ? just live with it or move south ? tuffen up ? 20 degree weather, oh a real cold snap, me "brainless" ? In our "tec savvy socioty" why are we still thinking inside the box by overloading the truck before we put the pay load in it ? In our safety, environmental, and politically correct socioty why are we putting distracting TV screens and blinding headlights on our cars? Didnt we just ban cell phones so now we move on to TV screens Energy crisis and we are heating washer fluid, steering wheels and seats, pileing the pounds on the cars, instead of being "savvy" and figureing out how to lighten the phat pigs up. Outside the box alright................with nothin but tunnel vision. These new features for 07 really dont amount to much, nothing substancial just a few gimmicks. Im afraid they will not blind the "tec savvy" away from the hype Toyota and Honda have going with the word "hybrid"

I cant believe the response to this thread. Im surprised and impressed, seems that Intrigue was a highly loved car. I did have one W body, for those that havent heard me rave yet. It was a 91 Regal Limited 2dr. and I did love that car. Im not currently in buying mode because its too late. But I always stop to look at interesting General Motors automobiles, at least Buicks and Oldsmobiles that is. Current ownership consists of, by year 75 Delta 88 Royal Convertable - project 76 Lancia Scorpion - project 86 Buick LeSabre Limited 2dr. - semi retired looking sweet 90 Oldsmobile Regency - on the road 90 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera Cruiser SL - on the road 97 Oldsmobile LSS L67 - on the road 06 Pontiac G6 GTP 2dr. - on the road I may have passed on the G6 for financial reasons had the right used car been around but my "wife" had her heart set and I feel pretty good about finally being in the realm of new car ownership. We hope to trade for a new RWD fun/sporty General Motors car in 4 years. Would have bought a Solstice but with GM screwing around with the supply and demand game they lost a potential sale in that department to a true GM and sports car enthousiast. So none the less we bought another GM to be enthousiastic about. I must confess I knew little about the Intrigues until this thread. I test drove one 2 years ago when I traded the Regal but passed on it because there was this mint, loaded full tilt, origional owner '99 50th Anniversary Delta 88 that just kept calling my name. The car had some electrical/computer glitch that made it run really funny on occasion that the dealership wanted me to "just live with it" so myself and the "Attorney General" made them "just live with it". Most excellent car otherwise, they should have fixed it, it was a real smooth ride.

the people involved know where that came from..............remember "true colors" brothers dont down brothers, I had something to say so I said it. Im sure I had the right, considering what I have had thrown at me. Its that simple. Sorry Mute that you are not up to speed on a few topics that took place and left me feeling like a POS but it really did happen and I was trying to have fun and contribute positive or interesting subjects, only to be left standing empty. I said my piece, that is all, hopefull it can be absorbed and understood by those involved. As for the thred have fun but I personally cant see excitement in either that is why I said count me out. Fair enough ?

Im with booyah ! I prefer to keep my head out of my ass, at my age any loss of circulation to the brain could cause me to regress and begin acting like an ignorant know it all punk, insulting fellow board members and their personal taste and worse yet their automobiles. My automobiles are to me as my wife and daughter, one would not want to insult either to my face and only pussys hide behind a computor screen and throw insults at fellow enthousiasts. So by that I would like to suggest to the rude people that throw insults for no apparent reason other than self gratification to grow the f@#k Up. I dont come here to be told any of my cars are a piece of $h!..................mmk child ! This is a GM site and there is nothing in my driveway or garage that is not a General Motors Vehical...............well except for Klyde the Fordson/County Super Six............that has the ability to turn every and any car including mine into a honest POS.............. * I hear ya VIps and I know where your comming from. but sorry I still cant join, I am above such nonsence and have no hyper ADD syndrome that I need to inflict on others..............ya know where Im commin from ?

But when more is better, why hold back 1936 v12 touring sedan 37.8kmi since new, magnificent orig car, w/orig int & banjo steering wheel, $38000 Schroon Lake, NY (518) 532-0004

Here ya go if ya just have a little spending cash lyin around 1956 CORONET conv, beautiful classic, newly restored, only been on road twice, must sell, $20000 Sartaoga Springs, NY (518) 466-7557 (518) 306-5737

My Uncle had something like this, but Imperials is all he ever had except for the last one which was the last New Yorker before they changed the name to LHS 1966 imperial crown coupe 86kmi, 1 owner, taken 2nd place in 2 car shows, mellow yellow w/blk leather int, $10000 Firm Feura Bush, NY (518) 767-2609

Then theres the ultimate pimpin land yaht 1976 RIVIERA 2dr, HT, 43kmi (orig), 1 owner, full pwr, new cond, 455CID, AC, $8500 Walden, NY (845) 778-7659 This car has been for sale for over 2 years. I test drove a 75 about 5 years ago, it was some kinda sweet

this is more my speed convertible, older restoration, strong driver, nice sound, needs new top, some rust, trades & offers considered, $7500 Castleton, NY (518) 477-4517

1959 LESABRE flat top, trans rebuilt last wk, runs great, 2-tone blue, 364 mtr, new mufflers, shocks, no post, $3700 Albany, NY (518) 331-5904