CARBIZ

A client of mine's husband died behind the wheel of their LeSabre last year on their way down to South Carolina. She was very fortunate that the LeSabre had 6 passenger seating because she was able to get her foot across the hump (no console) and apply the brake while fighting the steering wheel - something a 70 year old woman wouldn't be able to do if she had to hike her heels over the console! There is something to be said for old geezers driving Buicks and Chevys with 6 passenger seating! And, BTW, I never read CR any more - IRRELEVANT.

Okay, I am becoming very skeptical of the credibility of this survey. I cannot believe for one moment that Hyundai could go from nearly worst to near the top, unless they only received 5 surveys back. Although about half of the names have stayed within their normal areas (like Chevrolet, Suzuki, Honda and others) the fact that that are some wild swings, like Buick and Hyundai concerns me. Does anybody know how many surveys they actually get back, and what percentage of those sent out come back? Although it stands to logic that the proportion of disgruntled customers should effect all brands equally, I wonder if anybody has bothered to break down the proportion of people who respond to those who don't for each class of vehicle, luxury versus entry level. I've heard the argument that a young couple will crucify Mercedes for the B-class because they expected perfection while the owners of Hyundai don't expect much so are thrilled when the car doesn't break down. In any case, I am scratching my head.

In Buick's hayday, it only sold 600k units a year, and they had a few car lines to do it with, and GM had 50% market share.

I just shake my head. Sixtyeight is right: FOG isn't as crazy as people think. The bias is real and we see it every day. Our local rag, the Toronto Star, publishes this kind of crap all the time. Bob Lutz even chewed them out a couple years back about the Grand Prix, which they hated. Recalls are NOT necessarily a bad thing, to be sure, but to spin this article this way, yet GM got trashed over the tailgate cable problem is outrageous.

No, gasoline is $4.50 a gallon here and we can't give away Tahoes or Trailblazers on this side of the border. Probably because of this, GM is just being more aggressive with pricing/marketing in this region. The vans clearly have their shortcomings, and undoubtedly money was being spent on the full sized SUVs and pickups (again) at the expense of the minivans. I am glad Saturn is going to start getting Opel product, because in Canada we need more fuel efficient vehicles like Opel and fewer Tahoes.

The point is taken about model/platform efficiency, and clearly Toyota and Honda are the winners here; however (and this is a big HOWEVER), that is only of interest to the accountants, and hasn't that been GM's problem for a while? You cannot tell me that everybody in YOUR neighborhood drives only a Camry or Accord? If Malibu or Impala were the only vehicles GM offered, wouldn't this be a horrible world to live in. What seems to be boasted here (advocated?) is that it is better, no PREFERABLE, to all of us drive the same vehicle. Using that logic, then, we should all be greatful Toyotas are kicking GM's ass so we can sooner all drive the same vehicle. Good GAWD.

How do the Caravans do in Southern California? Here in the Hinterland, GM advertises the hell out of the Uplander at $19,999 and so does Chrysler.

Sciguy's argument is total BS for two very good reasons: A) study after study, no matter who is doing them, has PROVEN that Ford and GM employ3-4Xs more employees at all levels than any of Japan Inc. Sure, a few parts jobs may be in Korea or whatever, but the high paying, value-added jobs like the engineers and chemists are all in Nort America. And while I would agree that many of these jobs are over-paid and bloated, at least those over-paid, bloated workers are here in North America, buying homes, RVs and furniture from other North Americans. b) Where does Toyota's record profits go? OH, that's right: JAPAN. So the investors, shareholders in Japan can benefit. Good for them. Sciguy, good to have you in the Japan Inc. cheering section. There are a lot of my acquaintances who hate America and would rather buy Japanese than buy a Ford or GM. They think Americans are too haughty and arrogant; that Detroit deserves to die. For my part, I look at the long lineage and heritage of American cars and, in particular, how Henry Ford, Walter Chrysler and others built this entire continent. If, suddenly, a maker of lawnmowers decides to come along and destroy that industry, all the while hiding behind tariffs, subsidies and manipulated currency prices, then I guess we should all be happy about that.

Isn't she the hag that wrote the End of Detroit? I read about 40 pages of that book and threw it against the wall. Why is so much made by the media of being the #1 selling car? "Turd" is a household word, too, but I wouldn't brag about that. Y'know, back when the Impala sold a million vehicles in one year, the Pontiac could be argued to have been a better car. The Galaxy was all new, too. Who ever said the best car became #1? The '65 Polara was hot and faster, but sold 1/8 as many! As a salesman, I would rather have the Malibu AND the Impala to show a customer. Over at our Toyota store, if someone takes an aversion (and there have already been a few!) to the new Camry, they are screwed. They will just lose the customer. I would hope the with CAD and other tools, it would be far simpler and cheaper to platform share vehicles today than it was 40 years ago. Wouldn't efficiencies of scale help, so that the Impala, Allure and Grand Prix could all result in the same profit as the Camry, spread over 3 or 4 models? Personally, I believe that eventually there will be a backlash against Toyota, and in particular because the Camry is everywhere. There are enough people out there who would not want to drive a car that everyone else on their street has. The same thing will happen to BMW, too. The whole point of driving a BMW or Porsche is exclusivity, but when they become commonplace (as they are) people will begin looking elsewhere. In the late '60s, everyone who had money owned a Cadillac. GM is trying to reinvent itself, and I have confidence that she will. Once a few more blemishes appear on Toyota's vaunted products, the media will turn on them like a pack of wolves, tearing Toyota to shreds just like it did to GM in the '80s when she got too arrogant.

In Canada, the minivan market is more important than in the U.S. For years, the Caravan/Voyager combo were the #1 selling vehicles in Canada - way ahead of the F-150. The Venture in '97 was a vast improvement over the dust buster; however, the Caravan still was the market leader. After improvements in 2000/2001 (moving the cupholders, getting rid of the cheaper cloth seats, etc.), it could be argued that the Venture was the clear winner in terms of features, ride, size, etc. ABS was standard. Side air bags were standard. The third brake light being LEDs was a clear advantage. Having both sliding doors the same size was beneficial. Ride and gas mileage were exemplary. However, as usual, GM fell asleep at the switch and both Honda and Toyota surpassed what the Venture had to offer. Then they began decontenting in 2003. But in this market where the Sienna and Odyssey are $31,000 plus, and we are selling the base (with OnStar, ABS, 17" wheels, power everything!) Uplander for $19,999 - well, for the average family there is no contest. Undoubtedly, the Sienna is a better van, but for $10,000.........? When gasoline hits $5 and higher south of the border the SUV craze will die a violent death and minivans or "cross overs" will become increasingly important. I can only hope that Lutz & Co. have something up their sleeves.

I watched a debate on public television last night about what Ontario is going to do about electricity generation. In twenty years, Ontario has gone from a huge surplus generator, to having to import hydro from Ohio, Quebec, etc. As expected, the greenies whined and moaned that we could see "40%" reduction in useage by cutting back use. FOURTY F**KING PERCENT??? WTF? Do we sit in the dark? What these enviro-nazis don't get is that what ever the HELL we do in North America to help the environment will mean diddly-sh*t when China's 1.2 billion people all decide to buy cars and lawnmowers! Or what about India's 1.1 billion people? As much as I do believe that we should be doing our bit for the environment and for saving oil consumption, I am sick of being made to feel guilty for living in a rich country that we busted our humps to make a better place to live in. Most Western countries actually have NEGATIVE birth rates, if you take out immigration. China and India - infact, most of Asia, have birth rates in th 4-6% rate. Why isn't the New YOrk Times bitching about that? Oh, I forgot, that doesn't fit into their bleeding heart liberal ideals.

I dunno, at Slave Day at my high school some guy paid big bucks for her for the day and she made him walk around on all fours all day on a leash. Sounds like some guy could be very happy with her now.

Here we go with this tired old thread: big, bad GM for building huge trucks. Well, the fact is that GM and Ford made a lot of money off those big, bad trucks while Japan Inc. totally missed the boat. Now that Nissan and Toyota are ramping up production on new, bigger than the Titanic trucks they are the ones who may have egg on their faces when gasoline hits $5 a gallon. GM has a new Aveo coming, the Cobalt is a great car for touring around the city and its gas mileage is quite good. The 4 cylinder Malibu is absolutely stellar on gas efficiency - I've driven many of them. Canada is big on minivans and the Venture was the best fuel mileage winner for years. GM has had no choice but to re-do the Tahoes, etc. in record time - they have a lot better competition than the past. Japan INc. has finally waken up and actually has a couple trucks that are worth looking at for the first time. But the press seems totally oblivious to the new Toyota Texas plant coming online just as gas prices hit the roof. Or that they have been floundering in the truck market for 11 years. No, let's just bitch about GM's lack of hybrids. And Toyoguy, of course GM's pick ups are going to level off - people know there is a new one coming out soon, so they are holding off buying one. Geesh, the body isn't even cold yet and the vultures are picking over the corpse!

Well, I can't speak for GM corporate, but around here the incentives on the Impala has been a LOT less than a year ago (we had $3,000 cash rebates then and now we have NO cash rebates) and we are not having any problems selling them. Most people see the inherent value of a $25,000 (Can.) V-6 equipped the way the base Impala is. Also, around here they like the fact that it is built close by. In general, at the dealer level we are working with a lot fewer rebates than a couple years ago and our sales are holding their own.

Brings a tear to my eye. [Reaches for kleenex]

Never had the sexual confusion problem, but in grade 10 I dated a cute, straight (no pun intended) A student who had a band that did disco (okay, it was the '70s!), but then she later went on to become the metal queen of the '80s. Kinda makes me wonder about Madonna, y'know the image that is. This girl I dated was perky, very sexy and a "good girl." Then she becomes a very "bad girl" in metal music? Hmmm. I knew I was gay and I also knew she was safe to date because she wouldn't make sexual demands. Great ego boost, though. All my straight friends were jealous.

Again, it will be interesting to see what REAL evidence there is in court. We could go back and forth about this all day. It is amazing what people have come to expect of their vehicles. Seven years for belts and hoses? I had a customer (a woman!) who freaked when she discovered that when her brother had borrowed her Venture he had taken it upon himself to put Prestone coolant in it. She knew because I had informed her, as I do all my customers. Nobody reads that damned owners manual. Like when people bitch about the ride on the Malibu, but nobody noticed that the tire pressure was supposed to be different front to back. People spend so much damned time trying to save $5 a month when they BUY the damned vehicle that they never bother to find out how to maintain it.

Okay, but then why doesn't Fiat, or VW or Citroen, or any OTHER world manufacturer of small, fuel efficient, fun to drive cars sell anything in Japan? Japan is a closed market, plain and simple. Just ask Toys R Us with the trials and tribulations they had trying to crack the Japanese market. Japan Inc is real, not conspiracy theory or a figment of someone's imagination. They railroaded the American television market out of business in the '60s and we are still so STUPID that we on this board (supposedly of higher intelligence and worldliness) sit back and defend what Toyota and Honda are getting away with? Wouldn't it be nice if Ford and GM could attack the world market with absolutely not competition at home? And who knows what under the table BULL$h! that MITI is pulling with Toyota, etc. that they did for Toshiba, Hitachi and pals 40 years ago? Just ask Houdaille International, from Texas, how they were treated by MITI when they tried to figure out why their patents and trade agreements were being thwarted. And, yeah - Toyota hires 900 in Woodstock while GM and Ford lay off 3,400 in Oakville and Oshawa. Great math, Hudson.

Go get 'em, Bob! Although I do agree to a point that America has to ween itself off this addiction to pointless, excessive SUVs, as usual Toyota is getting a free ride when they, just like GM, are doing everything they can to sell more and more big, gas swilling trucks. No mention of GM's efforts with hybrid buses, which is saving Americans more fuel than all of Toyota's Priuses combined!

Reg, that is a good point. Also, a lot of "media" are basing their opinions on an axe to grind because their parent's 1983 Citation was a POS! If you compare the complexity of a 1990 Pontiac to a 1990 Honda, odds are that the Pontiac was equipped with more toys: power windows, a/c, etc. Therefore, it is mathematically probable that the 1990 Pontiac would have given more problems. GM has always been at the forefront of technology, with things like ABS standard in cars long before any other mainstream brands. Anybody remember the touchscreen technology on the late '80s Rivieras? It stands to reason that someone buying a 1989 Riviera would have more potential to be pissed off than their neighbor's Accord. Also, considering GM was selling 5 million cars a year in the mid-80s and Honda probably sold a 100k cars a year in North America, GM clearly had the potential to piss off a lot more people. Fast forward to 2006 and the legacy has settled with people's perceptions of GM. The Civic does a lot of things right, but considering its premium over the Cobalt, you would have to deliberately want to spend more money to buy the same thing on a Civic. The Corolla doesn't even compare at this stage. The engine is under powered, the car shakes on bad bumps and the whole thing feels tinny. Drive it and see for yourself.

Last time I looked, the GMAC fee was $495 in Canada. You may be able to negotiate with the lessee and get them to cover the fee. $234 is a steal, especially on a 36 month lease. Just make sure you are okay with the balance of the lease mileage, and you should have the car checked out to make sure it wasn't abused because YOU will be on the hook when you return it. The guy must have put a lot of money down!

Must be "first year teething problems."

We have taken in 3-98 Luminas in the past week! The latest one only has 143k km (86k miles) on it. $2,500. Even better - Canadian dollars!

Well, I've never driven either one, but I've always thought the Xterra looked kinda neat. I can see where it would appeal to the twenty-something demographic. For all GM's confusing array of SUVs, I regret that we don't have a true CRV/Xterra/Tuscon fighter. The Equinox is nice, but not fighting in the same league. I hear we are getting a GM-DAT small SUV soon. I hope that it will look a little "cool" and have some decent specs.

Siegen, that's the point: the biased media are telling people NOT to bother with GM because [insert pet peeve here]. EVERY time I drive a client in a Cobalt and a Corolla back to back they are STUNNED. They literally are speechless. They can't understand why the Corolla would get such rave reviews. The Civic is rapidly pricing itself out of the market. I've had customers tell me that they've left the Honda dealer because all they do is bash GM and get nasty when the client wants to shop other makes. I think HOnda and Toyota are where GM was 20 years ago.