Drew Dowdell

A v6 might have sold me.

Crash900s, thank's for joining C&G and welcome.

I think the one thing you didn't mention, but maybe touched on slightly, is that of all the bidders for Saab that are possible, it is unlikely that any of them have the cash that BMW has to complete the transaction and do the job right.

I am mostly interested in the cost increase. The power numbers are more than suitable.... it would end up being the most powerful Cruze available.

None of which actually matters, because the XTS is Cadillac's ES350.

I suppose GM just couldn't use the LaCrosse to compete w/ the MKS and ES, which is a more natural competitor for those models than something from Cadillac...

I don't think Buick competes with Lincoln or Lexus. There in lies part of the problem. The LaCrosse competes with the Avalon, Taurus and Maxima. A Maxima can even hit $41,000, so can a SHO. I'd say the Chrysler 300 and Genesis are competitors also on size and price point, different drive wheels, but they would still get cross shopped I think.

Since Buick is not a luxury car, Cadillac has to wear many hats, thus they need an XTS to cater to those in Florida that like pastel pearl paint jobs and seats you sink in to. I question if they really need to cater to this market though. Or if the CTS were as well executed as the E-class that it couldn't attract both those that want smooth ride and those that want performance.

The Lacrosse and Enclave are most certainly luxury vehicles. They do quiet, power, and handling better than their counterparts at Lexus

I still don't see Buick as luxury. A Nissan Maxima is $2,000 more than a LaCrosse, is that a luxruy car? The LaCrosse and Enclave are also full size vehicles, a car or SUV of that size from a luxury brand would cost far more. Enclave is the same size and seating capacity as an Escalade, yet the Escalade is $30,000 more. So if the Enclave is a true luxury SUV, then why are people buying Escaldes, or why aren't they charging $60k for an Enclave? The reason being the Envlace nor any Buick are luxury vehicles.

Cost isn't the basis of being a luxury car. The base Maxima is not a luxury car, but I can see a loaded up model being one. The Lacrosse is a modern interpretation of old school luxury. It is extremely quiet, soft and comfortable, reasonably powerful, and comes with a good amount of technology. What's been updated is the actual handling. It is no 3-series, but it isn't meant to be. It is a vehicle for people who value extra comfort over apexing turns.

The Enclave is NOT the same size as the Escalade, nor does it have the same capabilities, nor does it have as much engine.... stop making $h! up. You'd get laughed out of any dealership for making such a suggestion.

Avis

I can't think BMW would be interested in any more than a quarter of the former SAAB dealers. Most of them are sitting in GM Mega Complexes. If the whole idea is to end up building a BMW-SAAB-Mini-Cooper dealer network, BMW isn't going to want to be selling Saabs next to Cadillacs in an old Hummer building.

There would be no union....or at least no contract. The buyer would be purchasing SAAB's assets, not the paper company.

BMW could buy SaaB with the change in their seat cushions.

Why should they? How does BMW get to do mass market volumes for something like an Accord/Sonata fighter without damaging the main brand?

Saab can be used to build a credible FWD sedan in both small and medium sizes. Throw in a small and midsize crossover and you have the makings of an actual full line manufacturer.

Saab wouldn't and couldn't be a luxury brand anymore, however, they could be "premium" along the lines of how VW is generally perceived.

BMW buying SAAB for that sort of redevelopment is a clear shot across VW AG's rather large bow.

I have most of the article written in my head. I will be addressing the car's qualities while acknowledging reality...... Of course with a lot of wit thrown in.

mmm... Buick Park Avenue C6.....

So as the last of a dead bread, Please review it and compare fit and finish of modern cars today to this dinosaur and did they do a nice job being it is night and day between the engineering of this car and todays Lincolns.

I already have the title.

also... this is the interior that is supposed to have Buick quaking in it's Michelins?

Speaking of leaping, I caught this Jaguar X-Type Vanden Plas (it said so in the pin-strip) with rear mounted hood ornament just in case you forgot it was a Jaguar when the old bag behind the wheel passed you.

Oh well there's a surprise...... Camry with predator mouth.

SRX sells because it is cheap. It also sells because Americans are suckers for domestic SUVs in the same way they are suckers for Camry and Accords. On the plus side, it looks better than an RX350 or MKX and it has more power than either one also. Lexus may have it in build quality and technology , but the Lincoln and Acrua offerings don't have an interior as good as the SRX. The German midsize luxury SUVs are considerably more expensive than an SRX.

To bring this back to the CTS, here is where the challenge will lie. When the CTS goes up in price to make way for the ATS, what happens to CTS sales? And then also, what happens with the XTS and CTS fully overlapped in price point?

New CTS will be a test to see if Cadillac can sell a $50-60K sedan in non-niche volumes. This has been a struggle for brands like Acura, Volvo, and Lincoln, but I think Cadillac can do it--think Escalade.

Escalade is a truck though, and huge SUVs have had success in the high dollar range, although obviously popularity has declined over the past few years. CTS V6 has to sell at a similer price point as the STS V8, and we know how few STS V8s they were selling the past few years.

What SMK meant to say what that it needs to sell at the same price point as a 3900lb 4-cylinder 5-series with "leatherette"

None of which actually matters, because the XTS is Cadillac's ES350.

I suppose GM just couldn't use the LaCrosse to compete w/ the MKS and ES, which is a more natural competitor for those models than something from Cadillac...

I don't think Buick competes with Lincoln or Lexus. There in lies part of the problem. The LaCrosse competes with the Avalon, Taurus and Maxima. A Maxima can even hit $41,000, so can a SHO. I'd say the Chrysler 300 and Genesis are competitors also on size and price point, different drive wheels, but they would still get cross shopped I think.

Since Buick is not a luxury car, Cadillac has to wear many hats, thus they need an XTS to cater to those in Florida that like pastel pearl paint jobs and seats you sink in to. I question if they really need to cater to this market though. Or if the CTS were as well executed as the E-class that it couldn't attract both those that want smooth ride and those that want performance.

The Lacrosse and Enclave are most certainly luxury vehicles. They do quiet, power, and handling better than their counterparts at Lexus

SRX sells because it is cheap. It also sells because Americans are suckers for domestic SUVs in the same way they are suckers for Camry and Accords. On the plus side, it looks better than an RX350 or MKX and it has more power than either one also. Lexus may have it in build quality and technology , but the Lincoln and Acrua offerings don't have an interior as good as the SRX. The German midsize luxury SUVs are considerably more expensive than an SRX.

To bring this back to the CTS, here is where the challenge will lie. When the CTS goes up in price to make way for the ATS, what happens to CTS sales? And then also, what happens with the XTS and CTS fully overlapped in price point?

Let's play the "How many times is SMK wrong?" game... this isn't a drinking game because I don't want to have to check you all in to Betty Ford....

1. SRX transaction prices are equal to the X3 and GLK. The SRX is the same size interior as those which is how car classes are determined... interior room. If the SRX is cheap, then so are they.
   
2. SRX has a 71% conquest rate
   
3. There simply weren't enough MKXes and Aspens sold for "domestic only" SUV buyers to come flocking to Cadillac at that volume.
   
4. The Lexus build quality on the RX hasn't advanced since 2004, in some areas they've reversed course.
   
5. The X5 and M-Class are a completely different class from the SRX, neither are entry lux CUV.
   
6. Asking "what happens when the CTS and XTS overlap in price point?" is like asking "What happens when the Escalade and Corvette overlap in price point?" or "What happens when the Sprinter and C-class overlap in price point?".. and roughly equal to "What happens when the ATS and Lacrosse overlap in price point?!?!?!?!?!11?!!?!"
   

.... which is a function of greenhouse design... Not drive train layout... See new new VW Beetle.

What they are doesn't matter, what they're based on is what counts..... or so you've told me. So what you're saying is that if Cadillac sold the SRX as only AWD, yours and SMK's bitchfest about the second best selling mid-size luxury crossover would end? Somehow, I don't think it would.

When you're done chewing on that one, talk to me about the front-wheel to door distance at Audi

Well here's my rental car for the week.

What do ya think? Review it just for the fun of it?

Are Audis including the A8 just FWD appliances? Don't give me that crap about which way the engine is mounted, it doesn't matter a hill of beans now with Hi-Per strut. The weight balance of an A8 and Lacrosse AWD are nearly identical.

What I find most amusing is the people bitching about it most are those driving 100k mile cars and will never buy a flagship from ANYONE.

That's kind of a low blow and not relevant to the topic at hand.

Well you're not buying an S-Class, a 7-series, or an XTS anytime soon are you? There is a predilection on C&G to pre-judge cars and to declare anything that doesn't fit the person's definition of "a good car" as a crap car that will never ever sell.

SMK and you have both been proven wrong by the SRX and Lacrosse. GM clearly has a better read on the market than you two do.

As I've told SMK in the past I will tell you too. You cannot judge the future success of the XTS on the efforts of it's competition. The MKS wasn't built well and its sales figures reflect that. It has nothing to do with FWD/RWD and everything to do with the fact that the driver can see the foam insulation inside the HVAC vents while in a normal seating position. The Acura RL sells terrible, not because it is FWD based, but because it is a styling dud and offers very little over an Accord DeLuxe in terms of... anything.

The XTS, if they build it right, will do well.

Just 2?

The flagship is coming. There is a whole platform being developed for it.

What I find most amusing is the people bitching about it most are those driving 100k mile cars and will never buy a flagship from ANYONE.

Last I looked, and to Pauli's dismay, the Lacrosse is holding its value pretty well.

I'm still not hauling sheets of pegboard in it. Trunk space, while large, isn't laid out very well.

On this interactive map, you can plot the destruction of certain cities using different size nuclear warheads.

Fun for the whole family

Go Nuke Yourself

Call me spoiled as my 94 GMC suburban with it's standard tank always gets me over 500 miles and same with my escalade. Guess since I always drive big auto's with big tanks, I feel a auto should be able to go 500 miles. 260 miles in an auto just seems wrong, way to short of distance traveled between fill ups.

With your Suburban, 13 combined MPG * 42-gallon tank = 546 miles.

Yes, you can go far, but you aren't achieving anything close to good fuel economy...

Fuel Economy is in the eye of the beholder. My wife was rearended twice. The first time we were in my Aunts Delta 88 at a stop light in Huntington Beach CA when a Suburban rear ended us totaling the auto and severly hurting my wife who was in the back seat. The second time was when a Washington State DOT truck was not paying attention to traffic and rear ended my wife in our Ford Escort we had for her driving required merchandising job and again got severly injured.

What Price do you put on quality of life over gas milage?

For me, that was the end to me having family members drive small auto's. The suburban had barely a dent to it's front metal bumper and the DOT truck according to pictures taken by WSP in their police report showed nothing but scratches to the DOT truck and yes our 2 year old escort was totaled.

My wife and I would rather fill up a tank and have protective steel around us than deal with the body damage caused by other poor drivers.

So from my point of view, Gas milage is all relative in relation to QUALITY OF LIFE!

My wife loves the suburban for the room, comfort and the line of sight due to sitting up much higher as our suburban has a 3" lift kit. For us, we will never get rid of our full Size SUV's. Yes I know I spend far more on gas each month than the average person, about $600 a month, but it is well worth it.

Buy an S60 and she'd likely be better off in both regards. (active headrests for rear end collisions)