dado

All of this is true.. But buyers of luxurie cars (and luxurie performance cars) don't really care about price of the engine, weight of the engine, complexity of the engine. Do you think owner of Ferrari , Aston Martin go and change oil or tune their car by themselves?? No..they can pay others people to do that. Yes small block are lighter but by how much?? Also engine (small block) is lighter but cars with that engine(camaro, CTS-V) doesn't seems to be much lighter or much more nimble then their competition. If GM can't use lightness of small block what is the point.. Like i sad before if GM are serious about Cadillac they should offer special engine especially for future flagship. LSA engine is an excellent engine..but it can be found in Camaro which cost about 50 000$. Imagine 120 000$ Cadillac with same engine. Yes you know, and i know, and some car enthusiasts knows it is an excellent engine. But large number of people will see expensive car(cadillac rwd flagship) with engine from cheaper and less exclusive brand (Chevrolet) And reading different forums, car magazines i'm not sure people would not realize -it is not the same engine from truck -it is not the same engine as it was before 60 years -because it has big displacement it doesn't have to weight 1 tone etc. Outside USA small block are not favorite luxurie cars engine and it is not first thing people will think when they think about luxurie. And it seems there are very large number of people inside USA that thinks the same way. IF GM is serious about Cadillac as luxurie car maker,and offer small block in real luxurie flagship (i'm not talking about CTS-V here or some SUV) GM should prove to buyers of Mercedes S , BMW 7. Jaguar XJ etc that small block are excellent engine for luxurie cars, that it is not same engine as the one in 50 000 $ car. You think they can do it? I'm not sure GM is determine to do so. Through the last few decades GM builded nortshtar V8, presented concept of XV12 engine (DOHC design and it could easily be an ohv engine and i bet ohv v12 would be lighter and smaller than DOHC V12), started building ultra v8, builded northstar supercharger just for Cadillac STS-V and XLR-V, than when bankrupcy came along they've cancelled all of it. There was talk about buying v8 from other engine manufacturer... and now there are rumors that they are thinking again about it if they go with real Cadillac flagship. IF it so easy to dismiss need for DOHC v8 GM wouldn't think much about it ..or would they? What is good for Cahevrolet doen't alway have to be good for Cadillac? Maybe in luxurie class being good enough isn't enough

Question for dwightlooi How much HP could gen V 6.2 l v8 DI produce (in N.A form) and still be "acceptable" (sound, durability,emissions etc) to be put in ATS-V (by GM, not tuners)?

Small blocks are small engines (compered to other v8 engine)and you can make a small light car with small block v8. And I don't see camaro with 4.0 l v8 revving to 9000 rpm as a future for camaro. Maybe i'm wrong. Yes camaro should lose weight.... Challenger (well it was always heavier than both camaro and mustang wasn't it). Now Cadillac is another story in another thread. This is the car that goes against 3 series, c klass etc (not camaro, challenger or mustang).

i've meant there will be only two displacement for V8 engine. Not in general that there will be only v8 for ATS. My mistake.of course there will be I4 etc. It seems 6.2 l is reserved for cars(top models V, etc.) and trucks and 5.3 l is just for trucks.

Some news from Lotus. If they are getting those numbers i wouldn't mind seeing those engines in Cadillac New v8 and v6 So far, details given involve V8s ranging from 4.0-4.8L as well as V6s to the tune of 3.0-3.5L. But oh yes, just remember the turbo trend, Lotus plans to be apart of that too while also developing naturally aspirated version. Already Lotus says that their new V8 is 130lbs lighter than Lexus’s IS-F V8 and insiders announced that their 4.8L version is already capable of 550-600hp, which will debut in the new Esprit R. Their V6 is ready for 350hp in N/A guise and 500 in turbo. I'm curious. How much weight does 2UR-GSE from lexus has?? Maybe 200-210 kg? So this new v8 from Lotus weight around 160-170 kg. Lighter than LS3. Don't now if Gen V will be lighter than gen IV.

I've read on gminsidenews that there will be only 5.3 l v8 and 6.2 v8 (codename LT1). I was hoping for 5.5l or maybe 5.7 l v8.oh well

Another one LINK "A new document that surfaced on Cheers & Gears ...." whaaaat?? . Dwightlooi are you not telling us something here

Is this authorized use of cheersandgears poll Cadillac will have v8 with 470 hp

Funny you ask. I often in my disscussion with colleagues mention fact that bentley has ohv 6.75 l v8 with TT. 95 % don't know that. First they try to assure me that can't be through (after all this is uberluxury car...it can't have pushrod right??). Then when they realize that maybe i know more about this than they do, they somehow try to prove this engine is something like a dohc but with pushrod?!?! (they try to make it something it isn't). And one of the favourite "Bentley is a behemoth so it needs such a large engine " In magazine they will call that heritage and what not(in case of bentley)..but if you have pushrod in Cadillac sedan they will call it a truck engine. And funny things is..,.there are other companies which put their top engine in their SUV etc..but since they are DOHC it is OK .It is like:"American cars are old tech, fuel consumptions are bad, doesn't handle good etc" over here. Perception is the name of the game. Will DOHC v8 make ATS a hit in europe..probably not but it will help. GM must change perception of the crowd if they want to successed here. That is why i'm for different displacement engine between Cadillac and other GM brands. Make a 5,5l or 5,7 l v8 just for cadillac. Put supercharger on it if you want. Why displacement... because that is amongst first thing buyers will notice and if they see same displacement in SUV or any other truck they will think they are the same engine (doesn't matter if one is aluminium other is iron..they don't care). Or maybe GM shouldn't sell Cadillac in Europe if they think it is too much problem. I wouldn't want that because to me present luxurie cars here except Jaguar XF and xj are kind of boring to watch. Or maybe they should offer TT v6(yes it is v6 but it also have DI, twin turbo, high Hp/l...all the things that are "in" now) with around 400-420 hp and then later on..a v8 supercharger.

And if they offer 6.2 l v8 in Europe most people will just say: "Same old GM..stuffing big truck engine in car. They probably haven't change a thing in other areas too". Couple years ago when new gen. 2 cadillac CTS was introduced there was autoshow in my country. There was new Cadillac CTS on that show (and escalade and corvette). I was sitting and admiring new CTS when i overheard older man commenting about engine-something like-"it must have about 7.0 l and 200hp".I've sad to him it was a v6 engine with 300 hp.Since all dealers was at corvette, hummer and escalade, showing kids how big this cars are (and they are big) he asked me,who came at show to watch cars not to explaing type of engines in american cars, if i know maybe if it is V6 diesel.Of course it wasn't. He said too bad..and yes similar comment was said at corvette stand (red z06)..7.0 l v8 with only 505 hp (it seems 505 hp is not enough power to move corvette???).And stupid dealer wouldn't want to open engine hood. So here are couple of problems (i think) what GM should solve before they try to sell Cadillac in Europe(in USA some of those probably aren't problems)... -More diesel engines -try to fight opinions (or educate people which is close to impossible) that gen V is 50 year old engine and show them it is new technologically advanced engine.That will be a challenge here (maybe it would be easier just to make DOHC v8 but then again..how much of this top V models does Cadillac plan to sell) -decide if Cadillac is luxury companie or something like citroen, opel etc. -it would help if engine in top cadillac model wouldn't be same engine as in chevrolet truck. Now i'm not sure if sharing engines with Opel is a good or bad thing from image point of view. I mean Opel is in class with Ford , Citroen, Peugeot, VW...which is not excatly luxurie class like Mercedes, jaguar, BMW..but then again there is VW and audi, and now something about Mercedes and Nissan....i don't know. For me if it is an exellent engine it shouldn't be important who made it. And CTS isn't cheap here in Europe so i don't think that ATS will be cheap here. Here, if people will have money for ATS, CTS they probably have money for something from Mercedes or BMW. Both of this company have much higher reputation here. Cadillac probably has lower reputation than Ford or opel. I hope that Cadillac will have success with ATS (all around the world) but i'm afraid that there are maybe too much expectations.

"Actually, the converse is true. A pushrod engine is significantly lighter and smaller than a DOHC engine. If you take a DOHC V8, throw away three of the four camshafts, their sprockets, their bearings, halve the number of valves and make the cylinder heads about 1/3 the size... you'll arrive roughly where a Pushrod V8 is in terms of size and weight. In fact, the difference is so pronounced that a 6.2 liter Pushrod V8 is typically lighter than a 4.0 liter DOHC V8. Eg. The BMW S65 4.0 V8 engine in the M3 is 202 kg, whereas LS3 6.2 V8 in the Corvette is 183 kg." I know that you know that (i forgot to write that my colleauge thinks it is big and heavy engine not me-i'm from Europe but i know advantages and disadvantage of engines with cam in block valvetrain )but for most buyers here they judge by displacement of the engine. To them-big displacement=big engine, heavy ..of course if you look at only DOHC type of engine with same cylindar configuration it could be partially true but not general rule (actually 6.2 l v8 from mercedes is lighter then 4.0 l v8 from BMW). To them 4.0 l v8 is smaller, lighter,rev higher, have higher HP/L rating than 6.2 l v8. They don't know much about advantages of pushrod engines (and why would they need to know that) since big pushrod V8 is not in use here for long time (accept Bentley but that is different story). This is perception GM must be ready to deal with if they are coming here.

I know in USA cars like CTS-V, M3 are relatively cheap compared to same cars in European countries.So maybe buyers of that kind of cars watch more at fuel consumption in USA. Here that kind of cars are very pricey.And believe me this. In my country people who drives that kind of car don't care about fuel consumption. I haven't met one person who drive that kind of car (with more than 350+ HP) who cares about fuel consumption. And here fuel isn't cheap either. So here it is not about fuel consumption for that kind of car. It is bragging rights. Buyer come and see DOHC V8, 4 valves 4 cams, DI turbocharger, 120 hp/l (or something like that)...and more thing means better (not complicated, heavier, harder to work at, bigger chance to something go wrongs) because some paid journalist wrought that down in some crazy magazine. And then they will see 6.2 l v8 with 470 + hp 2 valves, readline at 6500 rpm (even though most of the time most drivers don't past even 4000 rpm). It is so low tech for them. I know people who would rather have 4.0 l v8 with 420 hp than 6.2 l with 480 hp, if 6.2 l v8 can't spin over 7200 rpm (not to mention if it has only 2 valves per cylinder). Because 6.2 l v8 is heavy, big engine. And DOHC, Hp/l is only things that matters to them. I've tried couple of time to explain some things to some people but i just waisted my time. Small block doesn't have such history here as in USA. When GM will try to sell 6.2 l in small ATS (maybe CTS can get away with it) most people will just say: "Oh..they need such a big engine to get to such HP rating. So low tech" So maybe..just maybe.. 5.5 l v8 wouldn't be such a bad idea..with forced induction("high tech"),DI (also "high tech") it could go to 500+ hp.. and it would have good HP/l(ultimate uberalles, warp core level high tech criteria) I hope they also put that new 2.9 l v6 diesel in use.

Nice lineup for USA,but for Europe it would need more engines.. Like something to fall between 150 and 200 hp, 200-250 hp, diesel engines are must. Also,since there is no plans for DOHCv8 (there are rumors but nothing concrete), I think 5.5 l v8(or even 5.3 l v8) with or without SC maybe would be a better option than 6.2 l v8 in top V version. On European ground. It seems here people are obsessed with Hp/l, high rpm etc. They don't care much about outside dimensions of the engine or weight of the engine. Weight of the car is another thing. Question is if Cadillac ATS is meant to be global product or for USA only? And does GM want to blend in BMW M, Mercedes AMG, Audi S, Jaguar R crowd or offer car with engines for american market, specific american flavor, which i think, at present time, many people here doesn't like or care for.

But then chevrolet Corvette, Cadillac, Holden, Chevy and GMC truck will all have one engine(maybe different in top version where supercharger will be used).IMO not good(not enough difference inside firm). Maybe good for Chevy and Holden. But not for Cadillac. If they make lower engine (2.0 l v6) to be different from the other carmakers(Mercedes, Audi , Hyundai, Toyota) why not make some special top engines. I mean instead of 2.8 l v6 in Opel Insignia OPC make 2.8 l v8(I'm from Europe and 2.8 l V6 is top engine in Opel cars here and since Opel is division of GM...). Or 5.7 l TT V8 for Cadillac..or smaller 4.5 L v12 TT.

Yup..it had about 145 kg. I mean if we want engine which would make product different enough from others then 2.0l v6, 3,5 T v8, etc wouldn't be such a bad idea. Of course GM probably doesn't have money for such projects.

Yes I4 and v6 are coming. But not V8 with that displacement. Rumors are there will be two displacement of GEN V. 5.3 l and 6.2 l, and only 6.2 l will have forced induction (most probably supercharger). So for 350-400 HP GM will probably use 3.0 l v6 TT (also a rumor to be in development). Too bad . I would like to see a small displacement V8 from GM (something like old 3.5 l v8)

And then make 4.0 l v12 with 500 hp for ATS-V :smilewide:. Imagine the lineup 2,0l v6 T with 200 HP 2.0 TT l v6 with 250 HP, 3.0l v6 T with 320 HP 3.0 l v6 TT with 400 HP 4.0 l v12 T with 450 HP 4.0 l v12 TT with 500 HP. I know GM won't make anything like that not now not in future.But this would make GM different enough. True GM v8 small block also makes GM different from the other companies..but not always in a good way.

That is cool looking engine -Lt 5 Question is-if there will be new Lotus v8 engine what kind of engine will it be. Will it be a v8 with small displacement and hp at high rpm (since it would be an engine for sport car not 2+ tonne luxury sedan). Or if it is developed together some sort of 4.5-5.5 l v8 with capability of turbocharging for heavier sedan and natural aspired high revv engine for lighter sports car.

How would you guys feel if top engine in Cadillac top model wasn't a same engine as the one in Corvette rather it was engine coming from other manufacturer, for example Lotus, or engine made just for Cadillac? Reading about new Lotus models i came across this article "New engine from Lotus". In text there is explanation why there are thinking about their own v8 Bahar also revealed that customer reaction to the new Esprit being powered by a Toyota V8, as was originally planned, was behind the decision. “In the mind of sports-car enthusiasts, Toyota power might not be good enough,” he said. But the final decision on whether Lotus will green light the cash for engine development will be taken at the end of January. “The decision then will be purely financial,” said Bahar. Could Cadillac face the same problem in near future? If there will be luxury RWD sedan above CTS maybe potential buyers will think that the engine from Corvette, Chevrolet RWD sedan , some pickup truck or SUV, is not good enough for top model Cadillac? I'm not saying here DOHC is better than CIB engine or something like that. But i'm saying that maybe GM could develop engine that is different enough in buyer's eyes. It can be version based on GEN 5 but different displacement than the engine in corvette, truck etc., corvette, truck etc. Mabe cam in cam design just for Cadillac engine. Make it diferent enough. Or GM could buy V8 from Lotus. Or even invest in development of new V8 with Lotus and have version of this new v8 for top end Cadillac.

Would that be mid engine for CTS(beteen 3.6 l v6 and 556 HP v8) ..or maybe top engine for ATS-v. It does sound good. But i would like to see how it would compare against let's say 5.0 l v8 pushrod with turbocharger (so it get flat curve) and around same HP. I think in price small block would win. Dimension..well length will have to go to V6 but height and width ..i think SB also win. What would specific fuel consumption for this two engine be?? Weight of the engines? Price?

Here is the car

I think GM could do it. It would be engine just for Z06 so it could use more expensive material (something like present LS7 but with DI higher rpm, etc.). This guys can reach 800 BHP from 6.9 l v8 pushrod. Yes i know there is big differences between vette and this car (especially the price) but i think 85 hp/l can be reach.

I would like to see Z06 to keep N.A engine. Let the future zr1 to come with supercharger. So i would put 6.2 l v8 with about 530 hp (engine just for Z06 like ls7 for present z06...okay and special edition Holden) and make it lighter than present if it is possible. Also engine between 380 hp and 470 hp would be welcome. Something like 420-430 hp. V8 with lesser displacement or higher boost v6.

Two of this with supercharger. I bet one V4 could go to about 160-180 bhp if not even more. With larger displacement (about 2.0 l) it could go to 190+ hp. Two of this could probably go to 350 hp. Add a supercharger and you got ATS-V. Small "small block"

o.o.o.o...it also has higher rpm But i would like to see torque curve on that 3. 6 l v6 TT. I say put his engine in it- “Sneak Attack” LS7 5.7L from Katech. Add DI to it. With an 8000rpm redline, this crate engine is ideal for that "sleeper" ride. Package includes LS7 case, Katech forged piston-rod assembly, forged crankshaft, LS7 cylinder heads, and an LS7 derived valvetrain coupled with Katech specified camshaft. 2 Stage dry sump oiling system For off-road racing use only Application: Racecars with displacement-limited classes, customers wishing to rev over 7000rpm Displacement: 346ci, 5.7L Bore: 4.125 Stroke: 3.240 Compression ratio: 12:1 Fuel: 100 octane Horsepower: 580 Torque: 500 Block: LS7 Heads: LS7 Crank: Callies forged steel Connecting rods: Carrillo A-Beam forged steel Pistons: Katech forged aluminum with DLC coated pins Camshaft: custom Oiling system: Dailey 4 stage Throttle body: 90mm electronic cable Intake manifold: LS7