Jump to content

Recommended Posts

G. David Felt
Alternative Fuels & Propulsion writer
www.CheersandGears.com

 

Tesla Roadster 3.0 and 400 mile range reality?

 

Tesla gave a late Xmas present to electric advocates on December 26th 2014. Roadster 3.0 was posted covering the following top 3 topics: 1. Batteries, 2. Aerodynamics and 3. Rolling Resistance.

 

Tesla talks about the how their battery from 2008 was revolutionary in the auto industry and while it was good then and up till now for their current S sedan, lithium ion battery advances have pushed them to get 31% more energy from the same size battery pack. This new cell now gives approximately 70k Wh in the original battery package.

Tesla then moves on to talk about their drag coefficient of .36 on current Roadster and how with a new Retrofit aero kit they can drop it to .31 a 15% improvement.

 

The final bit of technology info is how Tesla talks about rolling resistance on the current Roadster which has a 11.0 kg/ton. An upgrade will give a 20% improvement by allowing the Roadster 3.0 to have a Crr of approximately 8.9 kg/ton. With this improvement come additional improvements for residual brake drag and wheel bearing to reduce drag.

This last part is particularly noticeable as anyone who has driven a Chevy Suburban and then gotten into a Cadillac Escalade ESV will notice how much better the Cadillac glides showing that the quality of Bearings, brakes, seals, etc. all can help to reduce drag.

 

Tesla's summary of these improvements is that Roadster 3.0 can achieve an estimates 40-50% improvement on Range over the original Roadster. Tesla goes on to say that they expect to prove this in the early weeks of 2015 with a drive from San Francisco to Los Angeles that is to be non-stop.

 

Tesla finishes up by stating that they will open up for appointments to be made starting Spring of 2015 for existing Roadsters to be upgraded with these 3 major focus points once the battery pack finishes safety validation. They go on to say this will not be the last of the upgrades for existing and new Roadster owners.

 

As of this writing there were 45 comments posted. As expected they are all positive, and yet many also are giving suggestions for powertrain upgrades for performance rather than battery life, reduced weight for better handling or a combination of them. Seems many want their cake and eat it too.

 

This brings up an interesting question, if Tesla is getting ready to release a battery pack that can go 400 miles on a charge, what will Volt 2.0 be for GM or Toyota have for the Prius family of autos?

 

Could we see a change over from gas to electric faster than people have expected?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Volt will get a 12% bump in range and stronger regenerative braking... that's about it on the electric side of things.  Most of the improvements they can make at this point will be on the regenerator. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Volt will get a 12% bump in range and stronger regenerative braking... that's about it on the electric side of things.  Most of the improvements they can make at this point will be on the regenerator. 

That is what I do not get, with all the advancements in battery technology, you would think they would want to step up to trump Tesla as well as get this powertrain into a AWD CUV or at least a FWD CUV.

 

I could see the VOLT having a 120-160 mile range battery pack come in the following format's

 

4 door sedan

5 door hatchback

4 door CUV with lift gate style

4 door CUV with Tilt glass and mini stage coach doors

 

Powertrains being FWD or AWD with choice of gas, Diesel or CNG generator.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because this is a Volt refresh (though I'm sure GM will call it all new) rather than an all new car.

 

The innovative thing about the Volt is under the hood, not the battery pack. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't .36 cd pretty crappy for 2015? Trans Am was at .29 in 1982.
IMO, this again points to the 95th percentile of automotive design progress that we are in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't .36 cd pretty crappy for 2015? Trans Am was at .29 in 1982.

IMO, this again points to the 95th percentile of automotive design progress that we are in.

Yes I would agree that for Tesla Roadster, the original .36 was pretty crappy. So be interesting to see what the new roadster looks like. Course that Trans Am was also fully enclosed compared to the open air Roadster from Tesla which is what this .36 is for. So I guess a .31 for the new Roadster 3.0 removable roof version is pretty good then.

Because this is a Volt refresh (though I'm sure GM will call it all new) rather than an all new car.

 

The innovative thing about the Volt is under the hood, not the battery pack. 

I agree that under the hood is important but then GM needs to be setting the standards rather than just following or doing mid level. I would think using the existing battery design and updating the cell design to maximize the Lithium battery packs for range would be a huge win for them in the eyes of the public.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GM is putting a lot of money into battery research... it's just not ready yet for 2016..... 

 

Keep in mind that neither is Tesla's.... Elon has a habit of making promises for release dates and then they get pushed back by a year or 3.  Until the first 3.0 battery back is installed in a paying customer's car and proven the claims true, Tesla has not actually delivered on its promise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Solid Point made Drew, Elon does have a habit of slipping dates.

 

Hopefully GM will do a mid year refresh of battery pack when they do have newer better batteries ready that push the length of driving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Isn't .36 cd pretty crappy for 2015? Trans Am was at .29 in 1982.

IMO, this again points to the 95th percentile of automotive design progress that we are in.

Yes I would agree that for Tesla Roadster, the original .36 was pretty crappy. So be interesting to see what the new roadster looks like. Course that Trans Am was also fully enclosed compared to the open air Roadster from Tesla which is what this .36 is for. So I guess a .31 for the new Roadster 3.0 removable roof version is pretty good then.

Most of the pics I see on Google show a lid/roof panel, assumedly the released number is with that in place. Guess the 'formal' rear glass is killing the flow, tho the windshield looks rather upright, also. Just surprised to hear it's where it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Isn't .36 cd pretty crappy for 2015? Trans Am was at .29 in 1982.

IMO, this again points to the 95th percentile of automotive design progress that we are in.

Yes I would agree that for Tesla Roadster, the original .36 was pretty crappy. So be interesting to see what the new roadster looks like. Course that Trans Am was also fully enclosed compared to the open air Roadster from Tesla which is what this .36 is for. So I guess a .31 for the new Roadster 3.0 removable roof version is pretty good then.

Most of the pics I see on Google show a lid/roof panel, assumedly the released number is with that in place. Guess the 'formal' rear glass is killing the flow, tho the windshield looks rather upright, also. Just surprised to hear it's where it is.

 

Makes one wonder if that upright windshield will change with the retro kits for the Roadster 1.0 and 2.0 versions when they release the upgrade kits and start producing 3.0 version cars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Isn't .36 cd pretty crappy for 2015? Trans Am was at .29 in 1982.

IMO, this again points to the 95th percentile of automotive design progress that we are in.

Yes I would agree that for Tesla Roadster, the original .36 was pretty crappy. So be interesting to see what the new roadster looks like. Course that Trans Am was also fully enclosed compared to the open air Roadster from Tesla which is what this .36 is for. So I guess a .31 for the new Roadster 3.0 removable roof version is pretty good then.

Most of the pics I see on Google show a lid/roof panel, assumedly the released number is with that in place. Guess the 'formal' rear glass is killing the flow, tho the windshield looks rather upright, also. Just surprised to hear it's where it is.

 

Makes one wonder if that upright windshield will change with the retro kits for the Roadster 1.0 and 2.0 versions when they release the upgrade kits and start producing 3.0 version cars.

 

 

Windshield angles are one of the few things you really can't change on a car as a factory thing.  Most likely, they're changing the front and rear clip in some fashion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Today's Birthdays

    1. jry
      jry
      Age: 58
    2. Chevy Ryan
      Chevy Ryan
      Age: 43
    3. Aura XR
      Aura XR
      Age: 51
  • Similar Content

    • By William Maley
      More than 90 percent of Tesla Model S and X models that roll off the assembly line require fixes before they are shipped. This figure comes from nine former and current Tesla employees that spoke to Reuters this week citing data from the company's internal tracking system.
      At Tesla “so much goes into rework after the car is done ... that’s where their money is being spent,” said a former supervisor.
      Industry experts say it is critical for an automaker to get the quality right before initial production as repairs waste time and money. Other automakers such as Toyota only have an average of "fewer than 10 percent of their cars" requiring some sort of fix.
      Some of this can be attributed to Tesla's pressure to keep the production line moving, even when there was some sort of issue. This caused certain batches of vehicles to not have various parts such as windshields or bumpers. The understanding according to the workers is they would be fixed later.
      Other issues such as doors not closing or missing trim pieces show Tesla is still struggling with getting the basics right.
      Defects included “doors not closing, material trim, missing parts, all kinds of stuff. Loose objects, water leaks, you name it,” another former supervisor said. “We’ve been building a Model S since 2012. How do we still have water leaks?”
      Tesla calls models with quality issues “kickbacks” and are either fixed on the production line or head to one of Tesla’s outdoor parking lots for repair. According to the workers, one of the lots "has exceeded 2,000 vehicles at times".
      “Our goal is to produce perfect cars for every customer. Therefore, we review every vehicle for even the smallest refinement. Most customers would never notice the work that is done post production, but we care about even a fraction of a millimeter body gap difference or a slight paint gloss texture. We then feed these improvements back to production in a pursuit of perfection,” Tesla said in a statement to Reuters.
      The company declined to provide any post-assembly defect rates and denied those repair lots exist.
      Source: Reuters

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      More than 90 percent of Tesla Model S and X models that roll off the assembly line require fixes before they are shipped. This figure comes from nine former and current Tesla employees that spoke to Reuters this week citing data from the company's internal tracking system.
      At Tesla “so much goes into rework after the car is done ... that’s where their money is being spent,” said a former supervisor.
      Industry experts say it is critical for an automaker to get the quality right before initial production as repairs waste time and money. Other automakers such as Toyota only have an average of "fewer than 10 percent of their cars" requiring some sort of fix.
      Some of this can be attributed to Tesla's pressure to keep the production line moving, even when there was some sort of issue. This caused certain batches of vehicles to not have various parts such as windshields or bumpers. The understanding according to the workers is they would be fixed later.
      Other issues such as doors not closing or missing trim pieces show Tesla is still struggling with getting the basics right.
      Defects included “doors not closing, material trim, missing parts, all kinds of stuff. Loose objects, water leaks, you name it,” another former supervisor said. “We’ve been building a Model S since 2012. How do we still have water leaks?”
      Tesla calls models with quality issues “kickbacks” and are either fixed on the production line or head to one of Tesla’s outdoor parking lots for repair. According to the workers, one of the lots "has exceeded 2,000 vehicles at times".
      “Our goal is to produce perfect cars for every customer. Therefore, we review every vehicle for even the smallest refinement. Most customers would never notice the work that is done post production, but we care about even a fraction of a millimeter body gap difference or a slight paint gloss texture. We then feed these improvements back to production in a pursuit of perfection,” Tesla said in a statement to Reuters.
      The company declined to provide any post-assembly defect rates and denied those repair lots exist.
      Source: Reuters
    • By William Maley
      Tesla is known for building quick vehicles, but they're also known for burning through a lot of cash. Bloomberg recently crunched some numbers on how fast Tesla goes through money and the amount is quite shocking.
      According to their data, Tesla has been burning through $8,000 per minute (about $480,000 in an hour) for the past 12 months. At this rate, Bloomberg predicts that Tesla could run out of money by next August.
      Tesla spending money like it is going out of style is not all that surprising. The automaker is trying to ramp up production of the Model 3 along with dealing with various issues. Still, the $8,000 per minute figure gives us an idea of how far Tesla still has to go before exiting what it calls 'production hell'.
      Investors still are bullish on the electric car builder, with a share price of $317.81 at the close of trading yesterday. Tesla also has a market capitalization of more than $53 billion, beating the likes of Ford ($48 billion). The difference being is that Ford is able to consistently make a profit.
      Tesla says they have enough cash to meet its target of building 5,000 Model 3 sedans per week by the end of March, and expects to “generate significant cash flows from operating activities” afterward. The company is also reservations on their Roadster due in 2020* to help raise funds. Buyers will need to plop down $50,000 for the standard model or $250,000 for the Founders Edition. Tesla will only produce 1,000 models of the Founders Edition, meaning they could possibly produce $250 million in income. 
      “Whether they can last another 10 months or a year, he needs money, and quickly,” said Kevin Tynan, senior analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence. Tynan estimates that Tesla needs to raise $2 billion or more in capital by mid-2018 to stay afloat.
      Source: Bloomberg

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      Tesla is known for building quick vehicles, but they're also known for burning through a lot of cash. Bloomberg recently crunched some numbers on how fast Tesla goes through money and the amount is quite shocking.
      According to their data, Tesla has been burning through $8,000 per minute (about $480,000 in an hour) for the past 12 months. At this rate, Bloomberg predicts that Tesla could run out of money by next August.
      Tesla spending money like it is going out of style is not all that surprising. The automaker is trying to ramp up production of the Model 3 along with dealing with various issues. Still, the $8,000 per minute figure gives us an idea of how far Tesla still has to go before exiting what it calls 'production hell'.
      Investors still are bullish on the electric car builder, with a share price of $317.81 at the close of trading yesterday. Tesla also has a market capitalization of more than $53 billion, beating the likes of Ford ($48 billion). The difference being is that Ford is able to consistently make a profit.
      Tesla says they have enough cash to meet its target of building 5,000 Model 3 sedans per week by the end of March, and expects to “generate significant cash flows from operating activities” afterward. The company is also reservations on their Roadster due in 2020* to help raise funds. Buyers will need to plop down $50,000 for the standard model or $250,000 for the Founders Edition. Tesla will only produce 1,000 models of the Founders Edition, meaning they could possibly produce $250 million in income. 
      “Whether they can last another 10 months or a year, he needs money, and quickly,” said Kevin Tynan, senior analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence. Tynan estimates that Tesla needs to raise $2 billion or more in capital by mid-2018 to stay afloat.
      Source: Bloomberg
    • By William Maley
      We never thought that we would ever see the day that a semi truck would get as much hype as an upcoming sports car or one of Tesla's new models. But that's the case with Tesla's new semi truck that debut last night.
      The design reminds us of GM's original 'dustbuster' vans with a clean shape and wide glass area. Tesla says the overall drag coefficient of their semi is 0.36, making it more aerodynamic than a Bugatti Chiron. The interior follows the look of the Model 3 with a minimalistic design and large screens providing key information and controls for various functions. The driver is positioned in the middle to provide a commanding view of the road.
      Under the semi's skin, Tesla employs the same chassis design as their passenger vehicles with the batteries sitting low in the chassis to improve the center of gravity. Power comes from four electric motors from the Model 3 for the rear wheels. Tesla isn't saying how much power the motors produce, but went into full detail about performance.
      0-60 mph in 5 seconds when towing an unladen trailer (How many fleet operators care about this? -WM)
      When at its max gross weight of 80,000 pounds, the truck can hit 60 mph in 20 seconds
      Traveling up a 5 percent incline, the Tesla semi can up to 65 mph, 20 mph more than a standard diesel semi
      Maximum range of 500 miles
      Tesla is planning to have a network of "Megachargers," DC charging stations along common routes, and the origin and destination points. The chargers can provide a 400 mile range within 30 minutes.
      For safety, all Tesla Semi trucks will come with an enhanced version of Autopilot, cameras around the vehicle to provide a surround view, a jackknife prevention system that uses sensors to detect instability and adjust the power of each electric motor, lane keep assist, and automatic emergency braking.
      Tesla is also touting the low operating costs of their new semi. Per mile, the Tesla semi is said to cost $1.26, while rival diesel trucks cost $1.56 per mile. This is due to Tesla's semi having less moving parts than a standard semi truck and lower fuel costs. We're wondering how Tesla came to this number.
      Production is expected to begin in 2019 and if you're interested, you can place a $5,000 deposit.
      Time to address the elephants in the room. Tesla hasn't said where they plan on building their new semi truck as Freemont will be at its capacity if the company reaches their passenger car production goals. Then there are production issues with the Model 3 which has caused the automaker to push back their production ramp-up to next year. That's not including Tesla's track record of missing production dates. They're also burning through cash at a very alarming rate to work various issues. We haven't even gotten to talking about the 'Megachargers' which needs to be built out.
      How Tesla plans to achieve these goals remains to be seen.
      Source: Tesla
      Press Release is on Page 2


      Tesla Semi
       
      The Tesla Semi will deliver a far better experience for truck drivers, while increasing safety and significantly reducing the cost of cargo transport.
      Unrivaled Performance
      Without a trailer, the Tesla Semi achieves 0-60 mph in five seconds, compared to 15 seconds in a comparable diesel truck. It does 0-60 mph in 20 seconds with a full 80,000-pound load, a task that takes a diesel truck about a minute. Most notably for truck drivers and other travelers on the road, it climbs 5% grades at a steady 65 mph, whereas a diesel truck maxes out at 45 mph on a 5% grade. The Tesla Semi requires no shifting or clutching for smooth acceleration and deceleration, and its regenerative braking recovers 98% of kinetic energy to the battery, giving it a basically infinite brake life. Overall, the Semi is more responsive, covers more miles than a diesel truck in the same amount of time, and more safely integrates with passenger car traffic.
      Driver Experience
      Unlike other trucks, the Semi’s cabin is designed specifically around the driver, featuring unobstructed stairs for easier entry and exit, full standing room inside, and a centered driver position for optimal visibility. Two touchscreen displays positioned symmetrically on both sides of the driver provide easy access to navigation, blind spot monitoring and electronic data logging. Built-in connectivity integrates directly with a fleet’s management system to support routing and scheduling, and remote monitoring. Diesel trucks today currently require several third party devices for similar functionality.
      Megachargers, a new high-speed DC charging solution, will add about 400 miles in 30 minutes and can be installed at origin or destination points and along heavily trafficked routes, enabling recharging during loading, unloading, and driver breaks.
      Safety
      The Tesla Semi’s all-electric architecture is designed to have a higher safety standard than any other heavy-duty truck on the market, with a reinforced battery that shields the Semi from impact and gives it an exceptionally low center of gravity. Its windshield is made of impact resistant glass. Jackknifing is prevented due to the Semi's onboard sensors that detect instability and react with positive or negative torque to each wheel while independently actuating all brakes. The surround cameras aid object detection and minimize blind spots, automatically alerting the driver to safety hazards and obstacles. With Enhanced Autopilot, the Tesla Semi features Automatic Emergency Braking, Automatic Lane Keeping, Lane Departure Warning, and event recording.
      Tesla Semi can also travel in a convoy, where one or several Semi trucks will be able to autonomously follow a lead Semi.
      Reliability
      With far fewer moving parts than a diesel truck – no engine, transmission, after-treatment system or differentials to upkeep – the Tesla Semi requires significantly less maintenance. Its battery is similar in composition to the batteries of Tesla energy products and is designed to support repeated charging cycles for over a million miles, while its motors are derived from the motors used in Model 3 and have been validated to last more than one million miles under the most demanding conditions.
      Lowest Cost of Ownership
      All-in, the Tesla Semi delivers massive savings in energy costs, performance, efficiency and reliability.
      TThe biggest immediate cost-advantage comes from savings in energy costs: fully loaded, the Tesla Semi consumes less than two kilowatt-hours of energy per mile and is capable of 500 miles of range at GVW and highway speed, accommodating a wide range of shipping applications given that nearly 80% of freight in the U.S. is moved less than 250 miles. Coupled with the low and stable nature of electricity prices – which average $0.12/kWh in the U.S. and can be significantly less for commercial and industrial users, falling to almost nothing when combined with local solar generation and storage – owners can expect to gain $200,000 or more in savings over a million miles based on fuel costs alone.
      Reservations for the Tesla Semi can be made for $5,000 USD per truck. Production in 2019.

      View full article
  • My Clubs

  • Who's Online (See full list)

About us

CheersandGears.com - Founded 2001

We  Cars

Get in touch

Follow us

Recent tweets

facebook

×