Cory Wolfe

Well, if you ask me, you should compare the Aspen to the Escalade, seeing as how that is its closest competition. Tahoe - Durango - Expedition vs Escalade - Aspen - Navigator. Course, it is cheaper, alot cheaper... and Chrysler is pretty mediocre with mediocre hopes, so I guess aiming for a GMC fits.

From what little I can see... looks like a Saab.

Um...?

Unrelated to the topic at hand... I'm curious how you went from owning Hondas to getting a Citation? Appearantly a blown engine was the reason for getting a new a vehicle, but why a Citation? Just curious.

Um... 06 has different wheels, rearranged packages/trims, and a slight different interior. I don't think that's enough to sway to either vehicle, so I guess go by mileage, price, and which color she wants.

Well, true car enthusiasts opt for true manuals. Otherwise, bleh... damn tools and their CVTs.

Well, this thread is about the Galant, no? It's not the shape, it's the innards on NON base models, smarty pants. Ugh. Um... the Legacy is light years ahead of the Galant in styling. It's attractive and sexy. The Galant is... pure ugliness. Ugh sums it up pretty well. It's better looking than the Malibu but that's not saying anything at all.

Yeah... Clinton rocked.

Glad it looks better in real word pictures. The interior looks great, as does all the details that show up in places. Although, as far as exterior styling goes, it still looks like the tried to make an SUV out of a Relay.

*in tears* I resent that. My Millenia has gone through fields, been on the toughest dirt roads Ramsaytown has to offer, traveled over deep ruts in no mans land, and been through flood water! I say, it most certainly does have offroad capability! I've never gotten stuck either... well, there was the one time, but it doesnt matter.

So is the 2.5L in my Millenia. Like a DOHC, though, it doesnt start pulling until about 2k rpms. Better than most DOHC V6s, though, and certainly I4s. I know my Grand Am had no power until about 4k, and its redline was at 6.1k.

That's just an excuse. I simply compared the most similar models. Why would I not? If wasn't available back then, with no possibility of the Millenia having it, then its a mute point and should be discredited. I did, ofcourse, mention all of. I didn't mention whether something was standard or optional, however. As most engines that take Premium usually pollute more. That's a given. I never said the Millenia's performance with the 2.5L was any better than the Lucerne's with the 3.8L. Then, take into consideration that the 2.5L is much smaller engine by more than a litre, so for it to make the power it does is impressive and is atleast comparable to the Lucerne's due its lighter weight. The extra 14 cubic feet is largely due to its longer wheelbase. It doesnt take much to add up to that. Going by the specs I've posted, and my own personal experience in sitting in both back to back, the Lucerne is only roomier in the back seat. I find the Millenia to be anything but cramped. Now my Grand Am? It was cramped. It fit me like a glove. A very tight glove. All available in 95 in limited qualities. This and you do have to consider the fact that the Millenia first was built back in 93, being designed in the very early 90s. So it would be more accurate to list these for atleast 93, rather than 95. Again, not many vehicles had these sort of things back then. Especially in dash 6-disc CD changers. The others, you are correct with, however. Yes, the transmission is Ford sourced and is definitely one of the things the Millenia could have done without. That is its biggest, if only, flaw. These transmissions aren't the most reliable. Damn Ford anyways. As far as what you'd take, again, different strokes for different folks. I've rather have a car that was advanced for when it was designed that's also packaged well with a roomy interior that doesnt require a large exterior. It's also much more refined, IMO. Don't forget, I said IMO. The prices you listed differ from the ones I found. Considering it's missing a trim... But damn, You made your post hard to reply to, you realize that? Damn list feature.

I never give in, I fight to end. I'm doing it here with my opinion and I do it in life with my problems. I always lot walk and never have an intention of buying anything and it's not just a Buick Dealership. I've never said I didn't car for the Lucerne. It is a nice sedan and it's not all that bad. I've said it before. I'm not blind to reality however, and can admit its far from perfect. As far as that list. Read through it again. Anything the Lucerne had an advantage in was due to it being newer with technology that was recently introduced. In case you can't comprehend, that means it wasn't available on even the most advanced vehicles back in 95. That's only where the Millenia could be considered deficient. Otherwise, it either beat or equalled the Lucerne. I also compared more than just content and technology as I've made clear so many times. While some of that stuff may not matter to you, it matters to other. Dash plastics included. Pointless to you, the world to me. Don't be so stubborn and unwilling to atleast consider some of the things I've posted.

Damn, that's cheap. It's hard to even find 97s cheaper than that around here.

Here, yes, I am. I'll admit it. The Millenia never sold well, it's true, but to say sales decide whether a car is good or bad is not right. I can think of many good cars that sold poorly and many crappy cars that sold well. A car doesnt always deserve the sales it gets. Look at the Camry. There are much better vehicles out there that don't sell nearly as well. You know it. So to even bring that up was pretty pointless.Also, the luxury market back in 95 was alot smaller than what it is now. It was small and crowded. Now, its alot larger with most vehicles garnering acceptable sales.

Ofcourse. Great vehicles always sell well in a perfect world. It's not a perfect world. Sometimes the markect just doesnt cater to some vehicles. Then, considering that the Millenia most certainly was a niche vehicle, being sold as a Mazda, in a segment that was full of competition with better dealer networks and names that are more established. A GM fan should know this. How many great vehicles has the General put out, only to succumb to poor sales? But alas, another person trying to come up with more excuses. It's too much to consider the comparision. Um... going by what you quoted, I guess so. Its my opinion that the 3800 in the Lucerne is outdated. I'm most certainly not saying all pushrods are outdated. The LS engines are sweet perfection. That doesnt make the 3800 any better. It's unrefined and outdated. If you're going to stick with pushrods, atleast put some money into them, like GM has with the LS engines. Otherwise, don't even bother. As it stands, a DOHC V6 would have suited the Lucerne better for its market. Especially moreso than an unrefined and outdated 3800.I suppose I'm not allowed to have an opinion without getting attacked. Yay me.

Ofcourse, but my Millenia is far from crap and it's certainly comparable to the Lucerne. Well, considering the Millenia isn't a generic midsizer, but a decent luxury sedan... Different strokes for different folks. Meaningless to you, the world to me. I completely agree with the first part.However, for the second, I'm going to have to clear a few things up. There was no alternative motive. I wasnt trying to be cute, rude, demeaning to older persons, and I wasn't being childish in the least. I wasn't entirely degrading, since it's not entirely an excellent vehicle. I'll give you good, but the Lucerne has more cons thans pros, IMO. In case anyone here doesnt read letters, that means in my opinion. That also means these are all opinions being posted about. Fly has his, Balthy has his, You have yours, I have mine. My sole intention was to compare my Millenia to the Lucerne. It just so happens that my Millenia is damn good car that can be compared to a 12 year newer vehicle not be embarrassed. I'm sorry that it does make the Lucerne look laughable. It's not my fault Buick built a large sedan the interior room of a midsizer. It's not my fault Buick decided to put an outdated pushrod engine into a sedan that should be chasing Lexii. It's not my fault Buick put a cheap $20k interior into $30-$40k car. It's not my fault Buick was lackluster in the developing of this car. I didn't expect any better of you guys personally, being that this is a GM enthusiast forum. I didn't, however, expect you guys to be so sensitive and rude because of my harmless little comparision. Reality: The Lucerne isn't that great. I'm not denying that it has its pros and it is a nice sedan. However, I'm sorry that comparing it to a 12 year old car that comes close to being a better vehicle just makes you all desperate to come up with excuses. There's a thing called blind loyalty and another thing called reality. Which side do you want to be on? I can understand if the Lucerne is more suited for you and you prefer it greatly. But don't be unwilling to consider the stuff I've posted in the comparision and certainly don't write it off as me trying to be cute, rude, demeaning, or whatever the hell you think. I cannot believe the stubborn attitudes some of you guys have. You all can't even handle a simple comparison? I mean... come on. If anything is sadder than how the Lucerne compares to the Millenia, its how you guys reacted to this. That is all I'm going to say. I dont even know why I bother anymore.

Yech...

Considering I dont have the Miller Cycle V6... and my 2.5L has 168k miles... Nice try Fly. Keep those excuses coming. I love a good a laugh.

Except, I compared alot more than just that. I compared things like materials, practicallity, technology, etc.Still, as far as what you posted. That extra power is to make up for the extra weight. I dont doubt the room since the Park Avenue was designed with the typical geriatric in mind. I'd like to see a side by side comparision, though. I bet it has more room, but not by much. There's no denying the Millenia was packaged excellently. As far as the "real" supercharger comment goes. Your right. It is a real supercharger and it gets gas mileage you'd expect from a real supercharger. The Miller Cycle supercharger is very efficient in that it adds a whole lot more power without sacrificing fuel economy. Probably why owners with the MC 2.3L report better gas mileage than those with the 2.5L. And let's compare the 3.8L SC vs the 2.3L MC. Look at the displacement difference, yet it doesn't lack that much power, and certainly gets better gas mileage. Oh look. Millenia wins again. As far as that last comment. I know you love living in Florida and all, but you should stop saying things that only relate to that state, which is filled with terrible drivers, just going by you own words. Course, you can't help that only geriatrics gave the PA any love, while the Millenia had a "real" buyer base. Have a nice day.

Nah... I just had a revelation while looking Dealer hopping last night.

Oh no... it just makes me appreciate it even more than I already do. I love my Millenia, like you love your Aurora and you've beat up on others. It just so happens that my Millenia is so competitive with a 12 year newer vehicle that's in a segment above where the Millenia would compete. It just makes the Lucerne look so sad. Yeah... but that'd be even sadder. I thought about it, though.

Slightly is $2500. As far as volumes, I didn't say anything about it. I just compared figures and saw how the Lucerne is so much bigger on the outside, but barely bigger on the inside. I also didnt say it's only bigger in legroom. I said the only real advantage it has is rear legroom. All other figures have either too small of a difference to note, or it gets beat by the Millenia. I am having fun, though. It's funny to see you guys come up with excuses to justify how laughable the Lucerne is compared to a 12 year old midsize Mazda. Other than things that the Lucerne has due to advancements in technology that werent largely available until recently and its longer wheelbase and slight advantage in price, according to the deflated figure of the Lucerne. There's simply no reason my Millenia should even be comparable to a new fullsize Buick, yet it beats or matches it in many areas and, as I've said over and over, it only gets beat due to advancements in technology (where if the Millenia would have been produced today, it most likely would have). Again, I laugh and start to appreciate my Millenia even more.