Camino LS6

The key is getting domestic Zeta lines up and running.

Any Holden production on top of the G8 is very limited. Probably no more than 10k units. Anything more would have to be built elsewhere, Oshawa perhaps. I think the GMC would require that sort of volume.

I doubt that there is any real worry there. The GMC would look very different simply due to its configuration - even before the brand cues are added. As far as real trucks go, that is a given that they will stay around. This does have the potential to get the casual truck/SUV user into something more sensible though.

For most people, this and a wagon based on it, would be a better choice than an SUV of any size. Put that in your CAFE pipe and smoke it.

Independence Series link: http://www.cheersandgears.com/underground/...ce/overview.htm

Here's a more direct link: http://www.cheersandgears.com/underground/chevelle/home.htm Check out our "Independence Series" to see our take on an AWD crossover based on the last gen Crewman.

Thanks Z!

On this one point in all of the Zeta mess, I congratulate GM for actually utilizing the platform the way it should be done. Zeta has a ton of potential variants built into the design and all should be used across the portfolio. With The Chevelle project we demonstrated how this could be done on the last-gen platform from Holden. Granted, we contained all of the ideas to Chevrolet. Extrapolated to the entire global portfolio, the possibilities are near-endless. One permutation of the platform perhaps is less well-conceived. As much as I like the new Camaro, its eventual move to Alpha may make more sense. A lighter RWD platform,could really set it apart. A more appropriate use for Zeta may have been a new Chevelle, as was considered at one point. That said, Camaro offered a better Buzz to kick start things, so I can see why it got the nod. So, from an AWD crew-cab crossover to a pony car, zeta has a better reach than any other GM platform. To waste that would be a crime.

I've been advocating this type of vehicle for How long now? This concept is a no-brainer for production. On a personal level though, it may eliminate my chances for a true El Camino-style vehicle. Z: can you get The Chevelle Project back up so we can all see what we are talking about here?

More Zeta info from Go Auto: Come in Crewman BIGGER AND BETTER IN ’08 By BYRON MATHIOUDAKIS in DETROIT GENERAL Motors product czar Bob Lutz has revealed that GM is set to display a VE-based SUV in the form of a four-door utility. Speaking to Australian media at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit this week, Mr Lutz hinted that it might herald the unexpected return of the Crewman dual-cab ute in Australia, not to mention a new export opportunity to the United States for Holden. “We will have a ute concept at the NY show, but that is going to be badged GMC,” he said. “That is a global design study – and a very interesting study in that it is a GMC toughlooking four-door ute that could then obviously be badged as a Holden for Australia.” In the style of the old VY/VZ Crewman – but beefed up to look more like a US-style pick-up truck – the as-yet unnamed concept vehicle, which is understood to have been designed in Melbourne, will debut at the upcoming New York International Auto Show in March. “It is very tough looking, with a sport-utility look that is very low, very aggressive looking, a blend between a sport utility and the classic Australian four-door ute,” Mr Lutz enthused. GoAuto understands that Holden has played a significant role in the development of this vehicle, which uses the global Zeta architecture. Furthermore, if the New York motor show public reacts positively enough, a production version of the concept is likely in the near future. However, Mr Lutz was also quick to water down speculation that a Crewman will be a sure thing. “It is not targeted for production at this point,” he emphasised. Asked whether it will be a replacement for the recently departed VZ Crewman – a car that Holden said was emphatically not on the cards at the ute’s launch last August – Mr Lutz said it was up to Holden to reveal that sort of information. “You’re going to have to ask (new Holden chairman and managing director) Mark Reuss whether (a VE Crewman) is dead or not, but this concept is basically a reprisal of the Crewman in a more modern form.” Mr Lutz did explain that the controversial fuel economy legislation that will come into effect might help the VE ute and Crewman’s cause in the US. “We said to Holden’s designers that if we really have to get much better fuel economy in full-sized pick-up trucks, and we have to go away from framed vehicles to get the lower mass of unitised vehicles, wouldn’t you like to do a really tough-looking Crewman, but that is much lighter than a conventional GMC fullsized pick-up,” he said. “The first time you see it, you might go ‘Whoa! I’m not sure I like this!’… because it is so tough and masculine looking. “But the longer you look at the proportions the more right it looks for the type of image that it is trying to portray.” Meanwhile, the regular VE ute may also get a guernsey at the NY show. “It’s something that is under consideration, but it can’t be confirmed right now,” Mr Lutz said on the subject. However, despite speculation that the VE ute may be introduced as a long-awaited successor to the Chevrolet El Camino, Mr Lutz said that it would make more sense as either a Pontiac or GMC-badged vehicle. GMC previously offered a rebadged version of the El Camino, called the Sprint. “If we did it, we would want to keep it in the same franchise, and I think that if there is any enthusiasm for that kind of vehicle in the United States, if we brought it, the expectation for that kind of vehicle by the American public would probably be as a Chevrolet, because it would be a reprise of the late and lamented El Camino,” Mr Lutz said. “But that is the last thing we would do because Chevrolet has been blessed with so many great products that we are at the limit to what the dealers can focus on. “So if we put any more stuff in the Chevrolet channel it is not going to result in any more sales because we are at the outer edges of what the dealer personnel can understand and stock and explain and sell. “And so it would be somebody else other than Chevrolet, and then the question is: would you give it to Pontiac or GMC? “And that makes very little difference because they are in the BPG (Buick/Pontiac/GMC) channel, where Buick is at the top of that with near-luxury vehicles … and the idea is that Buick would never have something overtly truck-like while GMC is all overtly truck-like with nothing that resembles a passenger car. “Pontiac would be focused on sporty, high performance passenger type of vehicles, and that’s where the ute fits, that’s where the G8 fits, and that’s where the Pontiac Solstice fits – and that’s how we want to focus that channel.” Mr Lutz admitted that the fact there is already a Pontiac G8 sedan nosecone that already fits the VE Ute probably helps Pontiac’s case. “That would be the logical thing to do, since we have already designed all the sheetmetal and it mates right up to the cowl; that would be another reason to go Pontiac because it is all done. No additional investment (is necessary). “If we decide to take that it would be as currently sold in Australia – a two-door. But the one we will be displaying (at New York) will be the (Crewman-style) concept.” Quote: NEW HOLDEN CONCEPT GENERAL Motors global product boss Bob Lutz has revealed that Holden is putting the finishing touches on a concept car to be shown at the Melbourne International Motor Show next month. Not wishing to steal Holden’s thunder, Mr Lutz would not give any details away about what the concept might be, other than to say that it is one of the best he has ever seen. “(Holden) are working on a design down there that is going to knock everybody’s socks off,” Mr Lutz said. “And I am extremely proud of the design. It will emerge as one of GM Holden’s proudest moments. It is really terrific.” A Holden spokesperson refused to elaborate. Stay tuned.

Of course not, in a fashion typical of the bad old GM, these yo-yos within the company want to waste all of the development money used for zeta by not bringing the cars to market. At the same time they yammer-on about Alpha which is already late and , if ever finished, will come to a very different market they simply can't yet have any good assessment of. This one time, you and I see this the same way. The idiots are taking over at GM, and a new cycle of foolishness begins. GM: take your corporate head out of the sand before it is too late! It is time to make decisions and actually stick to them. If you decide on a new architecture with its attendant lines of models, build the damn thing before it becomes irrelevant! No more delays, reassessments, and shifting priorities - get the damn job done while it still matters. We should all be driving these cars by now, and Alpha should be well into development. Your problem isn't CAFE, nor currency fluctuation, it is vacillation, delay, and a lack of expedient design to market process. In other words, you are too damn slow!

Mak, We really are on the same side here, and I agree with your assessment of the Malibu and Volt - they are critical products. However, make no mistake about it, Zeta is under attack by people who should know better. http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...mp;#entry357237

Thanks man, I understand where you are coming from as well. Ocn: M/T suffers from cranio-rectal insertion, I don't see them as confirmation. Also I have found no other confirmation of the B-J "announcement". I'll believe it when GM actually says it is happening.

See above

The G8 sportwagon

Believe me, I hope that you are right.

Here's the thing, not everyone wants a sedan (especially one without a manual) and the Camaro isn't for everyone either. I happen to like both for what they are, but they aren't what I've been after for years. The worry about Camaro not staying around very long comes from the lack of volume products on zeta. It's a real worry now that Impala won't be going to zeta. Lots of indications are that GM is essentially scuttling zeta, and with each cancelled variant the worry increases.

I'm trying to remember what it looked like in the Jag XJ I used to have to deal with. IIRC, you yanked up the seat bottom and there was a plastic flap over the battery.

Ferrari is the same way - have to yank the pass side front wheel.

You mean the GTO kit? :AH-HA_wink: Congrats on the new toy.

The G8 is a sedan, and at this point, only an automatic. That's 2 strikes. The Camaro is over a year away and all that's left to me as a choice.

Doing my best.

Has to be BS, someone else would have said so by now if it were true.

Gotta tell ya, I doubt that.

According to a member of a G8 board I belong to, an announcer at the Barret- jackson auction said that GM announced the ST today. I have my doubts. How could we all have missed it? Still, I hope it's true.