Camino LS6

Wagoner is right, it's the fuel that needs to be changed.

At this point it isn't even a fix, short-term or otherwise.

It's already started,Reg. http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...showtopic=15911

I admit, giving cars like this a second glance isn't something I do too often. The people dancing around the concepts are the only thing that gave me any sense of the dimensions. Gotta see 'em in the flesh.

I seem to remember casting doubt on a certain someone's ability to stop buying old cars a short time ago... Anyway, I expect a phone call if you do hit the Philly area.

I drove my GTO to a get-together last night, and watched as a Canadian fell in love with it. :AH-HA_wink: I wasn't sure he would ever get out of the driver's seat!

This article is based on an extremely narrow focus, just two markets, it is hardly indicative of where GM is as a whole nationwide. It also ignores the enormous recent strides toward the positive which even GM's critics have recognized. LA and Miami are not the nation.

On that point I can see how you might feel that way. I now see your perspective on it a bit more clearly and I will oblige you by closing the thread. I'm sorry to see it go as I enjoy this type of discussion (as long as it remains civil) but in this instance that is trumped by respect.

Seems to me it was a natural reaction to an unfamiliar situation, and the image that the experience raised in his mind was a consequence of association. If Dodgefan had said " Catholics are Nazis" then I'd agree with you, but I don't think that was his intent. The unexpected gesture made a connection in his mind to something else entirely familiar, if unrelated. Taking issue with my position on religion might be more appropriate as what I had to say is the product of a deliberate thought process while Dodgefan's was simply a reaction to stimulus. To an outsider the hand gesture in question almost has to raise the thought of the Nazi salute. In other words, if you can't put it into context you can easily get the wrong impression.

I would certainly like to see for myself. In the photos, they appear to me to be larger than an Aveo (or at least taller and wider).

I have the same problem with atheism as I do with religion: both presume to know the unknowable. Spirituality doesn't require group participation.

I don't think anyone is equating Nazis and parishoners. The Nazis were an evil unto themselves which co-opted symbols of much older traditions and unfortunately corrupted them for all who came after. With that said, I can understand the discomfort of an outsider at a highly traditional worship service.

Unless the discussion becomes uncivil, the rules can bend a bit. As long as the tone is respectful, I think this sort of topic is fine.

Same old story, those who don't like the GTO, don't know the GTO. Let's not forget that every GTO was a bonus sale on an existing product - GM made money on the car. Also GTO and the Camaro/Firebird twins for that matter were NOT gas-guzzlers! They were rated at 28 and 29 mpg on the highway. (down a mile or two per gallon on the 6.0 cars). All of this in a car that outpowers an M3 at a considerable discount. I don't think they priced it wrong, just marketed it poorly. I consider my GTO to have been well worth every penny, and I would buy another without reservation.

I know I should let this slide by, but I just can't. My view is simple: Religion is the problem.

Tastykake and Wawa are two of the reasons I still live here. :AH-HA_wink: I feel bad for the rest of the country, they are stuck with crap like Hostess and 7 Eleven.

For my opinion read the above posts again. :AH-HA_wink: What a joke!

Seems to me we are more in agreement than disagreement. I do recognize the possibilities here, and agree that GM needs to be ready. And, it seems, they just might be ready. I just hope (along with you) that it isn't really necessary. One other concern here is the perceived safety of very small cars, if there is any motivator for the "appliance people" that equals MPG, it would be safety concerns. A handful of dramatic news stories about small cars being unsafe could easily unravel this market. EDIT: Oh, and the comment about Americans not liking this sort of car? Well, when compared to the rest of the world, we don't.

Don't get me wrong,Chris, I believe that these three concepts are a solid and serious effort on GM's part to have a presence in the segment. For what they are, I think they are well-conceived and executed. Having these up the corporate sleeve is a positive thing and I don't advocate ignoring the segment. Still, an ever-improving car in the Cobalt slot seems much more important in my view.

Hmm... Obviously we need to clarify sizes here. I was under the impression that these were smaller than you seem to indicate. If you look back at my posts, you'll see that my opinion was qualified by saying that this sort of car doesn't do very well outside times of oil panic. Also, I don't think that just because some people will buy these cars necessarily translates into liking them. Finally most of my assertions are also qualified by my free admission that it is a local market thing. -I don't see much staying power for this segment. - The Mini sells because it is an interesting car, not because its small and thrifty. - Cars like the Aveo are more important to GM as a way to deal with C.A.F.E. than as engines of growth in market share or profit. (at least for now). - Until these cars can offer the sort of cache that the Mini does, they are more of an "I should" or "I had to" buy than a "I wanted to" buy sort of purchase.

Thanks again,BP.

Laughable, yet sad all at once.

It's also really unusual to have such heavy winds for so many days in a row. The forecast for next week isn't very promising either.

Thanks BP, I really like the '69 hood mod.