Duncan

Re: the Imperial, concept or otherwise. I think it's a good idea, but only if - 1) it doesn't steal production capacity that could be better used for Chargers or 300s, and 2) it's got the interior and build quality to absolutely blow Cadillac and Lincoln out of the water. As a "comeback" car for a newly-deshackled Chrysler Corporation (that is, one that isn't constantly being told by Mercedes-Benz to "take it down a notch"), the Imperial would be very cool. That being said, I do agree about the lack of proper heritage elements in the design, especially the eagle badge. Now, re: Plymouth. There's definitely a place for Plymouth, because it would allow both Dodge and (to a greater extent) Chrysler to go upscale again. There is absolutely no reason that Chrysler should have been made to sell both the bargain-basement PT Cruiser and the plush 300C in the same dealership. And with ChryCo now serving as America's sole purveyor of real minivans, who would argue against letting a new Plymouth Voyager take over the low-price slot of the outgoing Uplander or Freestar? And if Dodge would rather sell Calibers - a dumb decision, I think, but there you go - let Plymouth sell Neons to value-conscious buyers. Further re: the Firepower. With the extra tooling and investment that would no doubt be required to get that one off the ground, I'd say wait a while and let the mainstream products pick up more steam first before giving Chrysler something that ultimately would compete with the upcoming Challenger. Love this forum, by the way. Many reasoned opinions and a nice, wide variety of viewpoints with very little name-calling. I like that!

Until Chrysler does something drastic to improve their interiors, I shall remain unimpressed. The SXT (and the Sebring, for that matter) I sat in at the Denver Auto Show struck me as very, very cheap inside - even compared to my seven-year-old Mazda, which is rather depressing. But my 626 honestly has more soft-touch surfaces and better-feeling cloth. (I won't even go into how I feel about the Caliber's interior - that's goddamn depressing.) I hear good reviews for everything BUT the interior of the Avenger, though, so maybe I could be swayed if the performance is there. Or, better yet, I'll wait for Chrysler's new interior studio to start cranking out some better designs.

Too bad the Solara 'vert apparently has all the roll stiffness of balsa wood. And sadly, I would normally recommend the new Sebring droptop as well, but it seems to have lost a lot of the rear legroom it was once known for. Where's a Cutlass Supreme convertible when you need one?

Right, it looks like a shrunken Charger - which may or may not be a good thing. I'm not entirely sold on either the Avenger or the Sebring - both have crappy interiors and bad packaging. In their favor, they do offer the still-smooth 3.5 V6, but you will definitely pay good money for it. Cerberus, in my opinion, can only be good for Chrysler - Daimler was too busy making sure their own stuff was at the top of the divisional heap to give a crap about what the so-called "Chrysler Group" was making. Or NOT making, for that matter - the loss of a genuine Neon replacement was a huge misstep that needs to rectified quickly - I don't think the quirky Caliber's gonna be rolling in the hit parade any time soon. Cerberus will want to make profits, sooner rather than later - and the best way to do that in today's more frugal auto market is with good, solid small cars. The proposed Lancer rework would be a good start in the short term. As much as I like Peugeot designs, though, I wouldn't jump to import a bunch of 307s - PSA hasn't sold cars in the US in a good long while, so they may not be exactly ready for the differing demands of American buyers. (Also, who wants to repeat something like Chrysler's series of Renault-related disasters?) I don't mind seeing Daimler go, though. Someone over at Allpar made a good point, too - now that they've made themselves smaller and ultimately less profitable again with the loss of Chrysler, there's always a chance one of the other big boys might try a takeover bid...hello, DaimlerToyota?

Right, it looks like a shrunken Charger - which may or may not be a good thing. I'm not entirely sold on either the Avenger or the Sebring - both have crappy interiors and bad packaging. In their favor, they do offer the still-smooth 3.5 V6, but you will definitely pay good money for it. Cerberus, in my opinion, can only be good for Chrysler - Daimler was too busy making sure their own stuff was at the top of the divisional heap to give a crap about what the so-called "Chrysler Group" was making. Or NOT making, for that matter - the loss of a genuine Neon replacement was a huge misstep that needs to rectified quickly - I don't think the quirky Caliber's gonna be rolling in the hit parade any time soon. Cerberus will want to make profits, sooner rather than later - and the best way to do that in today's more frugal auto market is with good, solid small cars. The proposed Lancer rework would be a good start in the short term. As much as I like Peugeot designs, though, I wouldn't jump to import a bunch of 307s - PSA hasn't sold cars in the US in a good long while, so they may not be exactly ready for the differing demands of American buyers. (Also, who wants to repeat something like Chrysler's series of Renault-related disasters?) I don't mind seeing Daimler go, though. Someone over at Allpar made a good point, too - now that they've made themselves smaller and ultimately less profitable again with the loss of Chrysler, there's always a chance one of the other big boys might try a takeover bid...hello, DaimlerToyota?

Then most Americans need better driver-training courses. There's no excuse for that, and it's honestly not that difficult. Clutch in, shift gears, rev up, clutch out. Took me all of five minutes to explain that to a friend of mine, and she's had no problems since. Also, why is it that the only place I ever see new cars equipped with stickshifts is at the auto shows? Trying to find one at a dealer "in the wild", so to speak, is much like finding a snowflake in Death Valley.

You mean the mighty Tornado? The one that boosts your gas mileage to incredible levels WHILE AT THE SAME TIME increasing your performance?

Actually, if I were a Chevy fan (and to some extent, I actually am), I'd be hoping that the supremely capable and well-appointed new Malibu can wipe the floor with the Camry or Accord. That, I think, will be more important than the number of permutations GM can squeeze out of the Lambda. And for God's sake, why should there be a Saab version? They didn't honestly need a sport-ute to start with, much less one with a pushrod V8 like the 9-7X. What Saab desperately needs is a new 9-5, which had better be able to run with at least the low-end BMW 5-series models if it wants to have a chance. Somewhat off-topic; I apologize. Back to Lambdas...

My ideal Olds collection: '49 Eighty Eight - the original "Rocket" V8, and the ONLY car to have in stock car racing for several years '53 Ninety Eight Fiesta - a Motorama show car for your home garage '57 Golden Rocket Eighty Eight Holiday - the fiftieth anniversary edition, in stunning hardtop form '62 F-85 Jetfire - first turbocharged car in America (and possibly ever? Gotta check my history books...) '62 Starfire - first of its kind, and one of the last reasonably sporty big cars (like a plusher Grand Prix) '66 Toronado - first mass-production front-drive car in America, and an unlikely winner of the Pikes Peak Hill Climb '70 4-4-2 W30 - high water mark for Oldsmobile muscle, featuring the ever-mighty Rocket 455 with Ram Air '71 Custom Cruiser - perhaps the classic American station wagon - and you gotta have the woodgrain option '73 Cutlass Supreme - still one of the most stunning shapes ever created, and the only really good year for this style '75 Starfire - nothing to do with anything else, but you gotta have a small car in the garage ( ) '77 Delta 88 Holiday - that'd be the special-edition coupe model, a very attractive big-car package '82 Cutlass Supreme - it's gotta be a coupe, gotta be a 307 V8, and gotta be black with rally wheels for maximum effect '88 Cutlass Ciera International Series - coupe, with 3.8 V6 power and FE3 suspension - a very sporty package in its day '90 Cutlass Calais 4-4-2 - an unholy terror in SCCA racing for several years '92 Custom Cruiser - in lieu of having a real, honest-to-God Ninety Eight on this platform, which is what should have happened '93 Achieva SCX - successor to the Calais 4-4-2, but in an even better body style '94 Cutlass Supreme - the convertible, of course, with standard 3400 Twin Dual Cam power '95 Aurora - what all future Oldsmobiles should have been patterned after '99 Alero GLS - for nothing other than being far prettier than its Grand Am sister, and awfully quick to boot '99 Eighty Eight LSS - the final edition of a classic nameplate, with 3800 SC performance to match '00 Intrigue GLS - featuring the 3.5 DOHC V6, an engine killed off well before its time '03 Aurora V8 - the last real Oldsmobile - for now, one hopes Any questions?

Excellent point. In the late 1980s, while GM engineers were busy finalizing the Saturn design, the J-car was in the midst of its second facelift. Once the S-series finally arrived in 1991, the Cav and Sunbird received a second (and increasingly more obvious) facelift rather than being fully replaced - like they should have been back in 1988. Had the proven Cavalier and Sunbird brand names been introduced with the Saturn's (then-impressive) overhead-cam engines and plastic-bodied, spaceframe technology, they would have been an absolute knockout in a world of sticker-plus-profit Civics and Corollas (not to mention shoddy Escorts and warmed-over Shadows or Sundances). Increased sales would, of course, have opened up more funds for further development, which might have led to a much better range of small cars. Instead, GM wasted copious amounts of money building goodwill for an entirely new plant and branding exercise, rather than simply reworking and renegotiating with an existing plant to use the Toyota System or using existing dealers who were already starved for good product. (Not to mention that had Chevy gotten good small cars to begin with, there would have been no need to try-and-fail with the Geo brand, either.) Then they failed miserably with the L-series (a singularly boring car in almost all respects - more boring than a Camry, which is saying something), and lost even more money. It finally took America's irrational love for sport-utes of all kinds for Saturn to have another solid hit - and even then, they compromised the whole point of the Saturn project by caving in and buying (what else?) Honda V6 engines in an effort to keep these cash cows trouble-free. All I can hope is that GM's finally learned something from this messy experience. The new Astra is a good start, and well overdue - but then, as mentioned before, had GMNA spent its money in the right place the first time, there'd be no need now to IMPORT SATURNS FROM BELGIUM. Different kind of car, my ass. From a different country, maybe. I like the idea of having Opels here again, but maybe we could be special-ordering them from an Oldsmobile dealer now instead of buying them in stripped-down form with Saturn badges. Long rant, but you get the point, I hope.

...I'd look for a used Envoy. Or, failing that, a Grand Cherokee with a Hemi. Then again, I'm not really an SUV/CUV/whatever fan...I like my trucks a bit huskier, even if they don't handle as well. I too still mourn Oldsmobile (mainly for the loss of such a historic and long-lived nameplate), though Satty's point is probably correct - one of those three divisions was going to be removed, and if I had to choose it would have been Buick - Olds was better-positioned (even in a weakened state) to take on the Acuras and Infinitis of the world. (Cadillac is pitched a bit higher in the world, and deservedly so.) Imagine what we'd be looking at now if Buick had been excised instead - a third-gen Intrigue or Aurora on the new Commodore architecture, probably carrying a small Northstar in top spec. An Epsilon-based Alero (or Cutlass!) with the 3.6 DOHC. And probably a fourth-gen Bravada instead of the Outlook, which seems overpriced and outsized to me as a Saturn. Though many of you praise what Saturn is becoming, I can't say I agree. They started out with a much more focused goal (beating back the imports by doing it their way) and have ended up as just another cookie-cutter under the GM umbrella - a Chevy with more flash, or a Pontiac for less cash. The only distinctive thing about them is that they're the closest we'll ever get to driving an Opel or Vauxhall, and even that's not close enough for me. Oldsmobile, we knew ye well. Maybe someday, when GM finally gets their testicles out of Honda's firm grasp, we'll see you again.

Smoother, though. Mazdas have a much more aggressive fascia and stance - I would almost expect any Oldsmobile to hide the aggression under the hood. At least, any GOOD Oldsmobile - much like the one pictured. Looking twice at the Pontiac G6, though, one wonders how much the Pontiac studio "borrowed" from what Olds was working on after the fall...

Unions are there for a reason - so that companies can't simply up and change the rules on their employees whenever they feel like it. However, unions need to remember that everyone is ultimately in this business to make money, not solely to keep workers happy. I would agree about the UAW needing to pressure the foreign makers (and it's not just the Japanese - remember that BMW and Hyundai have plants here now) to get on board. Every other country in the world negotiates a deal for their workers from the outset, so why have we been so eager to bend over for the foreign auto industry? Oh, that's right. Because, like you said, our country's government couldn't give two-tenths of a $h! about the auto industry, even though it's still a major factor in the GDP and GNP every year. Instead, we'd rather worry about the oil companies (who ultimately funnel more and more money OUT of the country every year than they really bring in) or the telecom industry (which basically lobbies for complete deregulation, and generally gets it). I'm all for supporting companies and industries that actually produce something useful. I think it's a good philosophy - it's seemed to work pretty well for Warren Buffett, after all. Maybe our government will figure that out someday, too.

Lotus has got to be the driving factor here - I can't see any other reason why either GM or VW would jump all over the chance to get Mitsubishi's old technology and some really dodgy styling. You ask how GM might produce something like a 12-cylinder Cadillac? Lotus can figure that out. They, after all, were the geniuses behind the DOHC LT5 V8 used in the Corvette ZR-1. Nothing, repeat NOTHING, is too difficult for the boys and girls in Hethel. Good move, GM! Now don't screw things up again this time by insisting that they do everything "your" way (re: the last Lotus Elan, which switched from Toyota to Isuzu components at the last moment and basically shot the whole thing to hell).

Three things, quickly. First thing: The people who claim this isn't that big a deal are more than likely the same people who discount the notion of quality interior materials making a difference. (Example: The first thing my dad noticed about the Ford Five Hundred at an auto show was that it has "a $h!ty-looking trunk" as he put it, compared to the Camry my mom drives.) These people are the ones who then continue to bemoan GM's continuing loss of market share while bashing Toyota for having better technology, just because. Since this isn't technically GM's problem, but more Verizon's, GM should AT THE VERY LEAST be doing everything it can to shift blame properly. If they don't at least do that, who's the average uninformed person going to believe is at fault? Second thing: Like most things installed in a car, OnStar is most times added on as an option. This means that there has to be a module or receiver somewhere in the car that can be exchanged for something more useful. Offering a free or low-cost replacement to loyal OnStar customers is the very least GM can do. If they can instantly pull up all those Polk ownership records to find out owners' names for recall purposes, they can sure do it for this problem. Third thing: Honestly, were you really using your OnStar to have emails read to you? Seriously, really?

First post - excellent site you've got here. For the record, I drive a Mazda, but I've always had a soft spot for GM. Having not seen the film, I can't comment on it specifically - but from what I've heard, they could have done a little better research around the whole industry, and not just within Detroit. But I post mainly to say that you're incorrect about there not being any Asian-brand electric cars. Two times false, actually: Honda offered leases on the attractive little EV Plus, and Nissan did the same for their larger Altra EV. Toyota also sort of offered a RAV4 EV, but very few actual users outside the press got to drive one. And let's not forget that DaimlerChrysler still sells, if you can call it that, their very own set of GEM electric runabouts. That is, if you don't mind being seen in this: Re: the Volt. Good on GM for being ahead of the curve for a change. Never mind Flint's semi-coherent ranting.