SAmadei

Since I haven't found a dealer allowing a decent test drive, I was wondering if any rental outfits were going to rent G8s... I'd like a long test drive. Better yet, I'd like to rent a G8 GT.

Yeah, I haven't found a dealer willing to let me take a serious test drive yet, either.

Philly is a walk in the park. For real fun, cross the river into Camden... a city aways trying to top Detroit. As for Delaware, keep in mind that once upon a time it was part of Pennsylvania. And its only a matter of time before Maryland annexes it.

As far as loopholes go... let me buy it as a "body in white"... then I'll pick out a nice powerplant from the GMPP catalog... and put it in myself. As long as GMAC finances it all. Also, I agree with the sentiment of build 'em now, why you can. That way I'll be able to buy used G8s for years. Right now the supply of old RWD G-Bods and B-Bods are getting _real_ tight. Heck, I might have to buy a couple new ones, to stock up for the 35mpg dark ages. One other point. Knowing that GM has the ability to create a decent coupe (60 series, CTS coupe) only hurts/delays my decision to purchase a G8 sedan when it comes out. It really burns me to buy a sedan with little stubby doors when I know a coupe could be suddenly offered to the public a couple months after the ink dries on my title.

I loved the old RWD G-Body architecture and its 20+ years of history. ;-)

I guess you're right. I forgot about the fourth group. Trucks for people who never drive off pavement. But speaking _just_ for cars... Please explain. What are GM's "core buyers" if my cynical list isn't good enough? The people reading Car and Driver aren't core buyers... they love their BMWes. Even the G8 was not "world class" enough. The people reading Consumer Reports aren't core buyers. CR gives nearly all GM cars a failing grade. The people read C&G apparently aren't core buyers as we're too informed. Police and Taxi fleets aren't core buyers since 1996. They're a lot of people like me who want something big/RWD/V8/coupe... but most of them just moved into trucks, which are pretty much big RWD, V8 coupes with big trunks. I don't like trucks... I like cars. But with the CAFE changes, GM isn't going to be able to continue selling the trucks people want... or people aren't going to be able to afford the gas. In any case, a new market for larger RWD coupes and sedans with small V8s or hipo V6s has got to grow. Maybe GM should be thinking about that core buyer of the near future instead of fighting to get the long-lost to Toyota-Honda fictional 20-40 upwardly mobile core buyer. Go find some 20-40 years olds and ask them what cars they want. They aren't GMs... either volume family cars or halo vehicles. If they drive a GM, its because they couldn't afford what they wanted and got a leftover with big incentives. Out of the people I know, _one_ drives a GM and is proud of it... a '90 Buick Electra. He can't wait to get his raise so he can buy a VW EOS. Jeez! The new rebirth of GM (Aura, Malibu, Enclave, CTS) is going to take a _long_ time to change 30 years of awful cars designed by bean counters. Anyway, I may only have 6 posts here, as I am a lurker and generally don't have the time to comment... but I was evangelizing GM on the Internet well before their was a C&G or a WWW... and every time it seems like GM is about to turn the corner... it gets worse. 1996... death of the B-bod... 2002... death of the F-bod... 2005... death of the B'ville... 2006-7... death of the GTO/zeta projects. So I am healthily skeptical and have every right to cynical posts. I own about 15 GM cars. I love GMs. I am in the market for some more... but GM doesn't seem to want to sell to me. I'm not going to buy something which is in such short supply my local dealer screws me. I'm not buying FWD. It's not compelling to buy a FWD GM when I see two year old Cadillac DTS'es on eBay for 17K. I'm not buying some tiny piece of crap. Core buyer gone bad: I wanted to buy a Bonneville GXP. $45K for a Pontiac was insane at my local dealer. I wanted a GTO, but then they are going to have a faster one next year with scoops... _but_ not in the color I fell in love with. $5K dealer surcharge? Working more in NYC, I didn't need a new car that bad. I wanted a Solistice... dealer wouldn't let me sit in it without a $5K deposit. Later found out I had gotten too fat for a Solistice... and Consumer Reports says they fall apart. I was thinking about the Torrent GXP... but later decided a 260hp Caprice was a better deal... lighter, faster and I wouldn't cry if I scratched it hauling sheetrock. Now I kinda want a G8 GT. Dealer is already telling me they are going to charge $7K over sticker!!! Well, I can wait for the 6 speed stick... and the GXP version. But then they won't be available in the cool color shifting blue/purple. WTF! The time is ticking... and the Mercedes SL550 and BMW 650i are looking better and better. Oh, and they aren't vaporware. And what do you suppose I'm going to park next to them in my garage? Hint: it ain't going to be a shabby Uplander. Rant over for now... I'll continue it in my 8th ever C&G dumbest post.

Core buyers for GM: Car Rental joints. Dying Senior Citizens so doped up on meds they don't know what they drive. People so broke they have to buy whatever has the biggest incentive. Heh... I'm not a core buyer, either.

I don't mind sixes. Most of my cars have sixes. BMWs get by fine with sixes. I really wouldn't mind if Chrysler or GM would sell me a Challenger or Camaro as a rolling chassis (At a reasonable price). I'll drop in the LSX 454 crate engine coming later this year myself... and back it up with an 6 speed manual or 7 or 8 speed auto. Then I'd be totally out of CAFE's way. I can reengineer a bad engine choice... I could likely engineer a sedan into a coupe... but I haven't figured out how to convert FWD to RWD. Quite frankly, the way the American auto business is going, its looking better and better to buy a reproduction '69 Camaro from C.A.R.S., and build my own car. Hopefully, they'll start building Chevelles before long, for us bigger guys.

And the last chance GM has at getting money out of my wallet, except for random Dealer parts for my older cars. If this is the writing on the wall, some of those Chrysler products are looking good, but likely I will be skipping right to Mercedes.

I do. Yeah, it sucks to get out of the car in a tight parking space... but it beats being 6'4 and 375 and looking like an idiot trying to squeeze into a 4 door Grand Prix. In your average 4 door, I have the seat as far back as it will go, tilted back, so when I look out the left side of the car, I look out the rear window. When I open the door, I can't retract my leg far enough (without hitting the steering wheel) to clear the front of the door jam. And alot of these damn 4 door car hinges like to not stay open... and so while I'm trying to climb out of the jungle gym, I got the door slamming on me. That's how I normally end up putting the front of my foot through the speaker grille. Granted, large coupes may be a niche market (So is the Solstice/Sky market)... but they used to be a huge market. Did people really change that much? Or are today's cars styled so badly that a big coupe looks like crap. That's what, IMHO, happened to the Monte Carlo. Its boring. If your going to drive an appliance, you might as well get the 4 door. People who look at the big coupe Mercedes and BMW and drool. Why can't GM build something bad ass like that? OTOH, what about 6 doors? If 4 are good, are 6 better? I don't see that market niche being explored.

It is too short overall to be an Eldo... or an 'ESC'. Caddy should bring that back as a coupe version of the STS. I agree with most that the deck appears too short, and it makes the car look like a hatchback. I'd buy this, but it is too small.

I'd rather have an AMC Eagle SX/4. Well, for off-roading, lets drop that SX/4 on a built Jeep CJ5 frame... but who actually off-roads these? Total cost for my machine? Less that 5 grand... and I won't be afraid to scratch it.