FloydHendershot

Yea forget that. This is style!

O Really?? You know they probably do have sewing machines. I did not factor that possibility, but if a genuine Chinese built sewing machine embodies the same qualities as the fine products they export around the world they will need a backup and why not have some fun at the same time.

Knowing the steering wheel was sewn together with a political prisoners teeth possibly at gun point?

It would be a disaster in the worst order.

The plan! the plan! Dare I ask what plan? The Camaro should win on looks alone. O if it were only as simple. But if I were in the market I know who would get my money.

That was before the operation, but you make an excellent point.

I don't want to quibble but I read how you phrased it. My reply acknowledges that and will go further to say one of the many can be unraveled without equating it to a grander conclusion. It will maintain it's integrity. America has been a debtor nation for more than a century. It is how America has been built and does not have to be a bad thing. Debt is profitable and when used wisely allows for a productive means to reinvest. The national identity is always in flux but the image, ideal and principle does not diminish.

I got it the first time but contend the American fabric consists of many fibers and multiple fabrics and is defined by more than its products and industries. It is almost insulting to Americans to equate it with a greater American decline which I don't necessarily believe to be the case. We live in a global economy and there is no proof of other countries losing their identities. If Lois Chevrolet hadn't thought to come to America or if The Dodge family stayed in England or Henry Ford's family never left Ireland America would not be what it is because of people like that made tough decisions and opted to become something better they believed could not be achieved anywhere else.

Naturally, you are entitled to your opinions but do not agree with the extent of those implications. Industries are global and The Dutch will make wooden shoes and the Belgians will still make chocolate. The loss of a nameplate or American company happens everyday, dead car companies?Cord, Deusenberg, Auburn Checker, Essex DeSoto, Hudson, Kaiser, LaSalle, Nash, Packard, Rambler, Stanley, Studebaker, Tucker, Plymouth, Olds all gone yet America still trudges on. The loss of LaSalle probably hurt just as much but here we are today. Six Flags, blockbuster, and Kispy Kreme might be going, too. This is the world we live in now and losing Pontiac is not the end of America any more than Studebaker was a sign of the end. The loss of Chrysler to Daimler was a wet cod fish across the face of the American auto industry. I do agree Pontiac was squandered but there is a genuine opportunity with the proper support and these companies will be relevant and viable and profitable. Like it or not behaviour and attitudes are what will drive the company past this rough patch. Youd be surprised. Customers are only ideas and the creative difference Pontiac offered was a liability in this market. Performance doesn't need a brand. it is a sad day for the American automotive industry and would leave it at that. At the most I would say a little Americana has left us and for that I am saddened and thus closes one chapter in a book with many more before it and many many more ahead.

Perhaps an exaggeration on my part but Pontiac could not fill Pontiacs shoes. The G8's and GTO's are fine automobiles, no question, but the true Pontiacs are long gone and not coming back. The news does not make me happy but the lineup they called Pontiac did not either. The retirement of the Grand Prix was all that remained of the marque. It looked a lot like Plymouth as they writhed with those last desperate throes. Looking to the future I believe this decision will better allow the parent company to ensure better cars that will appeal to a wider variety of people with a wider cariety of needs and tastes. Buick should gain the most as they will in all likelihood have a better lineup that will appeal to younger more affluent buyers. I do not have the aba of Enclave owners but it is younger than your typical Buick buyer. With that sort of interest in the brand I would expect good things in the showrooms. Maybe Chevy will step up their game with an Impala worthy of the name.

If this, any of this remotely pans out than I say good you should be doing everything you can to reduce dependence on oil. Chalk it up to leading by example. But to assuage any ill informed fears this is not the case. This is procedure and a bi-product of democrat government. It doesn't mean much other than bigger government with more payroll. If what you are saying had a modicum of truth Chrysler would start building bicycles tomorrow. That is not the goal so don't jump off the deep end just yet. Unless that is you don't mind getting all wet.

It depends but it usually is.

So then the cycle repeats? Isn't this what they've been up against? Pontiac is gone but would venture a guess not a personal affront to you. It is petty in my estimation to make such a declaration. The chap with the name Camino iterated a similar sentiment. Camino. That was a Chevrolet last I heard. I find it overwhelmingly unbelievable to get so bent out of shape knowing this is about becoming able to provide what we as fans want. If Chevy brought over a Ute for instance would you not be interested? If the Caprice came back would you cut your nose off just to spite your face? Time will tell and hastiness and absolutes will only serve you to look foolish in the end no matter the outcome of this $h!storm. Where was Pontiac headed and how can those shoes not be filled by the remaining core brands? That is the question.

The language used is somewhat ambiguous but would gather to say they are committed i.e. there might be an issue if they were to back away, not that they could if they want. Maybe get a new p/u for GMC. Since the Matrix gets mixed up with Corolla is there any way to know what Vibe sales look like compared with its line mate? That is something I want to see.

Well la di f*cking da but could you clear this up maybe; spelling and grammar aside I'm a bit miffed.

They can't. Did you even read it? Rebadging Pontiacs doesn't make much sense.

Ah so you have become much the same as the other juvenile asinine posters populating the internet wishing GM dead because this time baby lost his bonnet. Making it your mission? Surely you can find better motives to justify your existence. There has been no brand autonomy for years. The same people that make Pontiac make Chevy and Buick and Cadillac and GMC still. The goal is to create a stronger company that can deliver products that ensure its future so it can still provide cars, and jobs for the people designing and building those cars for the rest of country that may still care. Pontiac does not make GM and if all the Pontiac customers went elsewhere so be it. There wasn't enough of you to begin with anyway. 'Tis a pity. :smilies-38096:

A couple of weeks ago it was Rick Wagoners fault. Just wait and someone else will be blamed.

That source is quoted from the same sourceless source as the original story. Jeez Louise! That is not new information. Put your hand down and sit quietly with your hands folded.

That is why they are where they are now. If they were raking in the cash it wouldn't even be on the table.

If "they" did not care there would be no loans in the first place. GM had their hands out in need of a partner to keep them functioning and the US Gov't agreed to that with conditions. Conditions to prove they can remain intact as a Global manufacturing force. This may be GM's response to meet those criteria. There just may not be another way presuming this is even true and not some internet bologna. I don't think the gov't or GM wants to close factories for longer than the usual two weeks but they are and will. I don't think the government wants to think what the cost of rampant unemployment and welfare checks would mean either. To say nothing of Toyota and what crumbling satelite companies including parts companies would like to happen. It is in all concerned best interest to get this right. It may not be your or my cup of tea but there is a bottom line and tough times call for these kinds of decisions. It's too bad once they got one foot out of the grave the other was on a banana peel.

Obama and his "minions" are the only thing that has kept GM even functioning. Your anger is all over the place.

FWIW- He may just be trying to figure if you are settled down, as in not a wild bachelor throwing lavish parties playing loud music into the we hours and pissing off the condo association. That's just a possibility of course.

Where's Germany? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...all-peters2.jpg http://www.thirteen.org/bucky/dymap.html

Well, I've seen some pretty impressive 'Balts as well but that is a far cry from a few bolt on mods and tweeks on a street rod. I'm thinking heavy duty brakes, mounts, joints, struts you name it. I admit I did not crunch numbers or factor in weight which btw do not even have a guess but I've always believed any modification to powerplant necessitates more modiications so the rest of the vehicle is not compromised in any way. Going fast is not hard to achieve it's the associated prolonged stress on the system that can be troublesome. On a street car a practical balance is rare without deep pockets and a lot of time. Again, for sustained periods. Just saying. Many hopped up rides like that break, become too costly, wreck or wind up in the lot in the sky for any or whatever reasons..