CARBIZ

Just to be clear - all you lovers of everything imported out there, GM's "legacy costs" which we all love to debate to death on this board are monies payable to Americans (and Canadians) who work and pay taxes here. These monies will go into their communities and be recirculated throughout the economy of North America. So the billions in pension and health care costs that GM and Ford are desperately trying to get a handle on is money that will eventually benefit us all. That is something that cannot be said of the sent to Toyota City and Stuttgart.

"I mean really, they're comparing. a SATURN with a BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Porsche? It should have been honoured to even be invited to the test. Next up, The Cobalt goes up against the 3-series, C-class, Audi A4, Alfa 159, Jaguar X-type, Lexus IS350 and just to be fair, the Cadillac BLS."

And though I am loathe to admit it, the Yaris has a much MUCH better advertising campaign. I watched the new (finally!) episode of Heroes last night and was chewing on razor blades by the time I saw the 3rd or 4th Yaris commercial (if you guys are lucky, it is a Canada only campaign), including a cute piece where the Yaris spits out a MP3 player playing bad music. In the same show, I saw a lame, LAME Cobalt ad that did not evoke any kind of emotion.

Clearly Saturn is heading in the right direction. Interesting comments about importing Saturns from overseas and the lack of build on this continent. Still, as many like to buy all things imported, being associated with "German design/German built" is not all bad for Saturn - especially since they hope to conquer other owners of "imports."

There's an awful lot of talk about "class-leading" this and "class-leading" that going on. Why does any one product have to be "class-leading?" Why is being "damned good" and "a great value," not equally aspirational? I'll give Honda credit in that the Civic (to get BACK on topic) is a pretty good effort - even "class leading" in many respects, but to many who actually take their blinders off the engines are too buzzy, the maintenance too expensive, the dealers getting cocky (sort of where GM dealers were 10 years ago) and I think the Civic may have even over shot its mark. The last numbers I saw (about two or three weeks ago), the Civic's numbers were DOWN 20% in Canada this year and the Mazda 3 was poised to overtake it for the #1 selling car. As the Civic, Mazda 3 and Corolla duke it out for Queen of the Rice Ball, the Cobalt may turn out to be the sleeper hit, since it doesn't have any real DOMESTIC competition. The Focus is tired and the Calibre (which I like, BTW) is too boxy. What both the Civic and Calibre have missed this time around is their core oldsters who are being alienated by this newer design. As the National Post ignored three weeks ago, the Cobalt is also poised to overtake the Corolla (in Canada) for 3rd spot. Not bad, considering the G5 (or whatever the hell they are calling it these days) is exactly the same and the P-B-G dealers are much stronger (at least around here!) Considering the Civic is the newest entry (and did I hear that the Cobalt was sort of "rushed" because Lutz hated the Cavalier replacement he initially saw?), I would damned well hope it was "class leading." But "expensive" and "tries too hard" also come to mind. I mean, for GAWD's Sake, the Cobalt SS is about as kick-ass as you can get, has amazing lease and finance rates (around here) and won't bankrupt the 20 year old who dreams of buying one! But let's pee and moan about the Civic!

I wish the two could be separated, but it is naive to believe that there is not some sort of assault on the North American market. The Japanese Big 5 don't have near the market presence anywhere else in the world that they do here in North America. Why is that? Is it because the North American market is (was?) more homegenous and, therefore, easier for Japan Inc to attack? After all, Europe is also a big market, but until recently was fragmented into dozens of smaller pieces. Now, suddenly Japan Inc is interested in Fortress Europe, but the Europeans are far more skeptical of everything imported. Or we can just be lazy and take everything we read at face value and continue shipping our money overseas.

This question comes up a lot when I go to cocktail parties. Everyone wants to know if extended warranties are worth it. I have two pat answers: 1) Taking an extended warranty is a guarantee that you will NEVER need it. (Like taking an umbrella with you on a cloudy day!) 2) Only the GMPP is worth it; after market warranties are a nightmare and not worth the savings they supposedly are. Be careful with how much you are charged for the warranty - some dealers can really jack up the price. I have always been of the opinion that a modestly priced warranty is in everyone's best interest, but some dealers make more money on the warranty than on the vehicle itself.

Wouldn't it be amusing if GM actually gave up the North American market? Since 60% of GM's sales are now from outside the U.S., and Japan Inc. (courtesy of MITI) is in the final phase of its assault on the 17+ million market here, wouldn't it be funny if GM just gave up and let Japan's Big 5 fight over the carcass? What is more sad is that America's own Big 2.5 can't sell in their own country what Japan's Big 5 can. GM is doing well in South America, China and Europe. Why is that? How long will Detroit treat us like North America is different? This is not 1965. And Washington had better wake up, too, as well as the media because Japan Inc. will not relent until Detroit is smoking ash. Japan is a tiny island with virtually no natural resources of its own and not too many original ideas, but they are focused and their populace stands behind their government like sheep while their companies assault Fortress America (and by default, Canada) from one market to another.

You'd be more mad if the vehicle started itself because your keys in your pocket accidentally triggered it! As a safety/security measure, you must first push the "lock" button on your fob for a deliberate second, then hold the "start" button for a deliberate two or three seconds. This is a safety measure, so it doesn't start by itself. Also, be aware that you can only start it twice with the fob (without first inserting the key), which is another failsafe design. So, if you are showing it off to your friends, don't expect to be able to start it a 3rd time until you start it with the key!

Wow, this thread got seriously hijacked from Civic to CR-V. And Enzl, PTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! I will agree the Cobalt could have gone a little farther than it did, but with 3 engine choices, 4 wheel choices, 5 models, availability of options (On Star, side airbags) at all price levels, usuable features (standard auto headlights, power trunk release!), the torque curve, quiet steel........well, I could go on. But instead of an intelligent discussion, let's get bogged down on 4 spd trannies and hard plastics. oH, Y EAH, and the PRICE. OH MY GOD!

Toyota is getting a little more aggressive in flogging the Corolla these days; whereas, the Honda dealers are getting a little high on themselves. I would agree that the Civic is a great little car. It's styling is perhaps a little too "out there" for a lot of the older crowd who have been loyal to them. Personally, I like it. But under the category of "Twenty Dollar a Monthing Yourself to Death." the Mazda 3 would be at least as good a vehicle, and for the money the Cobalt is better still. It is too bad that GM got caught cutting a few corners with the interior of the Cobalt (again), but otherwise it is a great car. So, the Cobalt is now nearly $2 grand cheaper than a Civic (in this market), which is nothing to sneeze at. For the same reason, Chrysler is scaring some of their hardcore (older) customers with the Calibre. I'd rather they spent $500 more on the interior (particularly those awful cloth seats - rip them out of last year Optra, if you have to!) and then perhaps we wouldn't have to be on the defensive so much.

Yeah, that seems to be hurting Toyota a lot. And GM in Brazil. And GM in China. One or two brands really sucks. (Sarcasm intended.)

Okay, but hasn't Man's intrusions into these areas, particularly of growing non-indegenous crops, contributed to the mess? Just asking. Global Warming arguments aside, too often Man has tried to tame areas that he has no business being in. Las Vegas comes to mind. Unless new sources of water are found (de-salination and its implications for further "global warming), perhaps Australia (and other countries) need to re-evaluate what they are doing. For example, Australia gets a lot of sunshine, and I saw a need gizmo that fits onto the back of a pick up truck that is designed for Africa that will create 2,500 litres of drinking water a day, running off solar power and needs servicing twice a year. Bigger units might be perfect for de-salinating water for these farms. Just a thought.

Some of my most boring childhood memories are of fishing with my stepfather. However, it might have been a helluva lot more interesting if we'd had ATVs!!

I understand your point, but 35 years ago, people didn't walk into schools and shoot their classmates. Nobody carried guns in class - at least not up here in Toronto. I hear about young black kids with their guns now in class and, yes, I squarely do blame violence in music, video games and television. Ever listen to the crap that is most rap music? The mysogyny, homophobia, glorifiicaiton of guns, settle your score with knives - its scary. The video games my 13 year old nephew plays? I wasn't allowed to watch Lost in Space (Danger, Danger Will Robinson) because it gave my 3 year old sister nightmares! There were probably more depressed losers walking around in the '60s and '70s, but they just offed themselves. Now, they want to take the entire class with them! When I had fantasies of suicide at 15, it was about making those who had wronged me feel sorry for what they had done - not wanting to end their lives! I wouldn't have known where to get a gun, nor would I have considered it. What truly pisses me off today, is that these punks today have more resources available to them than I did 35 years ago. I mean, it was a big deal to tell your guidance counsellor in 1977 that you were gay; these days, the guidance counselor is probably a tranny! Although I firmly believe in the Freedom of Speach and all that, this violent crap simply has to be taken out of the hands of children. A 10 year old simply can't process the difference between his/her soft, cushy suburban life and the violence on TV/games, etc. The dichotomy is too severe! We aren't equippped to handle this any more. ONe hundred years ago, 22 year old farm kids would have been cutting the heads off chickens, hunting bears or working 18 hours in a coal mine - no time for crying over their woes and plenty of "normal" outlets for their aggressions. Modern society forbids those normal impulses and suppresses them. In two or three generations we have gone from home steaders in the plains to living in an apartment block where the only distraction is the internet/TV. That is not normal. You cannot defy 100 million years of evolution in 100 years.

...........kinda makes the Element look nice

PUHLEASE...........They negotiate/haggle/barter just like every other dealer. The old "just called my wholesaler and got $500 more for your trade," line has been used, padding the trades, its' all good. If the Aura was the new Alero and the Outlook the Bravada, my sales would be UP this year instead of down. I'll bet they would be moving more than 4k Auras a month under the Olds banner.

Mental illness? BULL$h!. Everyone has an excuse these days. BOO HOO, my daddy spanked me. I mean, really! I popped a bunch of pills and ended up in the hospital when I was 15 because my father told me he was kicking me out when I turned 16 (can't have a fag for a son!) and my "boyfriend" didn't want to talk to me in class any more (funny thing: I saw him in the gay ghetto a couple years ago.) So I moved to my mother's house after my stint in the hospital, then lost all my new friends a year later when I confided in a female friend that I was gay. Yeah. Oh, and my mother packed me off to some quack who wanted to talk about my relationship with my mother and sister's - even though I hadn't been living with them when I had popped the pills! Geez, could I have popped the pills because I was depressed, gay and 15 with no one to talk to? Most "psychiatrists" are witch doctors with a plaque on the wall. So, forgive me if I am not crying a river for some loser who can't "integrate" and who blames his parents, depression, etc. The Brady Bunch was a ficitonal show! It never happened. But I grew up on Spiderman cartoons and Adam Ward as Batman. No Freddie Kruger or Platoon or Hamburger Hill or Boys'n the Hood. I hated video games. Well, truth be known, Pong came out when I was 16!

Color me strange, but I refuse to participate in this car wreck that society is becoming. Michael Moore is an embarassment. Reality shows are silly. Al Gore is an opportunist. I am fed up with single issue agendas. I am old enough to remember the campaigns in the early '70s against "pollution" and the "population boom," to name two of the catch phrases of 35 years ago. Hell, I remember doing posters in grade 4! Well, we are still here - this planet and us. Slowly, unerringly things are getting better. We don't need scare tactics. I just get so jaded, listening to the scare mongering and outright distortions in the media these days. I think the public in general is simply tuning out, leaving only the extremists to blather on about what is important to them that week.

I didn't even finish the article. I refuse to watch "The Inconvenient Truth" (quotation marks are mine). Of course, jet travel is bad for the environment. Ever stand on a grassy knoll next to a major airport and watch the black smoke spewing behind a modern jet? But isn't improved fuel efficiency also resulting in better emissions on the newer jets, too? Makes me want to build a coal-burning plane with a thousand incandescent bulbs on the outside, powered by a small nuclear reactor, then fly it over the Sierra Club daily.

Kids are mean. Young adults should know better, but judging by the pics this guy was no Brad Pitt, probably not very good socially either - so, he was an outcast. Let's not go blaming everyone else for being a LOSER! I still blame the gun culture and the media. Mark my words: some loser is already planning to beat that record of 33!

My 18th birthday present from my mother was her confession that she wasn't sure who my birth father was. The man who raised me for the first 6 years of my life (husband #1 for her) and whose surname I bare, may not be my actual father. He never knew. My "parents" were engaged in the Spring of 1960, then had one of their famous knock'em down, drag 'em out rows, called off the engagement and my mother spent the summer of 1960 doing what she did best............. Then, she realized she was pregnant, nailed my "father" and they were married in October 1960. BINGO, I popped out 5 months later! However, as I became a man, she admitted I looked more and more like a 21 year old she was "dating" that summer, so I could have a father out there that I never met. But I do have my mother's nose, eyebrows, chin and wily ways.................................

Look - most of us had $h!ty childhoods. Try growing up gay in the '70s, knowing you are different than everyone else? How about paying rent while your classmates are planning their prom plans? Oh, grow up! Lots of people had sucky childhoods, but they don't go around killing people. I do think there is one difference in the past 25 years though: violence on TV, the violence on the internet and violence on computer games. The gun culture is whacked, and the products are everywhere.

I was never a fan of Bill Davis (Premier up until 1984, or something like that) but the 40 some odd years of Tory government did help to build the best electrical system on the continent. Unfortunatlely, since then it has been systematically starved and poached. Now, we routinely import electricity from Quebec, Manitoba and New York What is with that? Sure, I'd love to have fluorescent bulbs in my closets, halls, kitchen, maybe even the bathroom (although that could be scary first thing in the morning!), but the white light is nasty in the living room and anything more than a few candles in the bedroom could be unlawful! :AH-HA_wink:

$4 a gallon? Luxury! We have been paying that for 18 months now! Wait until gasoline hits $8 a gallon, then you're talking!