CARBIZ

I suspect more than a few on this board are professional "shoppers," and think they know all the tricks, but let me assure you: if a veteran salesperson sells 10+ vehicles a month for a career that has spanned, say, 10 years - who would you guess knows more about the buying process and psychology? There is no pat formula, but no sales professional should ever open with,"Can I help you." Total disaster, as it will only result in the reflex conditioned "Just looking" response. I truly believe that buying a vehicle has more to do with the personal chemistry between the sales person and the buyer than any other factor. A great salesperson who was fun, personable and knowledgeable could probably sell me a Toyota I used to haunt dealerships when before I got into the business. Hell, when I was 14 I used to collect brochures up and down Yonge St. Just keep in mind that we are all human beings. You can't imagine the pressure some dealers bring to bare on their staff. Some places with 'up' systems are especially tyrannical: you may have not only blown this guy's chance at an 'up,' but he may get chewed out by the manager for not "turning you over" to the manager. Damned if you do; damned if you don't. I love it when a customer has been out on the lot for 5 minutes and we have all been busy with other things, then they storm into the show room and demand to know why nobody has time for them.

GM has a huge gap in their line up. Gas is going to hit $5 a gallon. It is nearly there here, and has hit that on the east coast of Canada. I haven't sold a Trailblazer in a year. People are clamoring for 8 passenger vehicles, and at $4-5 a gallon, they shrink from the Tahoe/Suburban. We used to sell a $h!-load of Trackers. The Equinox is all that is holding us together, frankly - and it is getting tired already, plus the Torrent is eating into its sales as usual. Speaking from my own portfolio, I have lost a lot of Oldsmobile customers - and most of them went to Honda, Mazda, etc. Chevrolet is supposedly the engine that propels GM and to not have a Lambda is criminal; to not have a viable 7 or 8 passenger is worse. GM wants us to nurture and work our customer base, but it pisses me off that the P-B-GMC dealer up the street (and bare in mind, folks, that it has ALWAYS been P-B-GMC in Canada) has TWO Lambdas - and we have none! This is far more than the usual dealer whining and bitching. GM needs a 4 cylinder CUV, and a decent, attractive 7-8 passenger - NOW! Look at the Ford line up, or the Jeep line up. I have lost several customers to Saturn recently - one who had leased two Z-24s from me, wouldn't even consider the Cobalt. He went to an Ion Redline. Things may be different in the U.S. right now, but I suspect most of that is due to the cheaper gas price situation. The world tilts on its axis at $4+ - trust me on that. I am having an increasingly difficult time looking a customer in the eye with the Uplander. Currently, it is cheaper than an HHR, and customers still won't buy it. As a stopgap measure, it was a good 2 years ago - BUT WE NEED A DECENT MINIVAN YESTERDAY. EVERYBODY IS SHOPPING THESE DAYS. I have customers still driving their '98 Malibus and Cavaliers that they got from me and although they LOVE them and admit they have had no problems, they say they will be looking at other makes next time around as well as Chevrolet. So even though we have been good to them, I have been good to them, they will shop around, which is fine, but NOTHING can be taken for granted any more. NOTHING.

I think Planned Parenthood should change their name to Unplanned Parenthood.........

I actually saw this review on TV yesterday and I almost spit out my coffee: not only did they LOVE the Outlook, at the wrap up, they spoke about how great most new products from GM is these days, specifically the Impala. Toyota's days are numbered.

It's easier to address the mentality of an import humper to pay a $7,000 premium (Camry hybrid versus Camry 4 cylinder, for example) than a customer who is shopping for an Aveo or Cobalt to pay anywhere near that kind of premium. As has been beaten to death here already, the hybrid technology is not yet proven and at $4 a gallon it is not viable for MOST people's driving as a means to recoup their investment. As gasoline hits $5 a gallon and higher - perhaps, but even then I would wait to see about the long term maintenance requirements of a system so complex. And don't brag too much, I can easily hit 40 mpg in a 4 cylinder Malibu, which is a bigger, heavier car than a Civic. Of course, combined city/highway brings that down to about 32-34 mpg - and that car is $2-3,000 cheaper than a comparably equipped Civic. (All figures in Canadian equivalents I know there are differences between the Canadian and American markets, and I strongly suspect the Toronto market is fairly unique in North America (exremely high insurance, worst traffic in North America, car-hating city council, etc.), but most people are concerned about the "cost of ownership" and that is where a vehicle like the Cobalt or Impala (those who require or want a larger vehicle) can stand proud and sing their own praises. I sold a Malibu on Saturday to a man and woman. Their main reason for shopping the Malibu: insurance. She is an insurance agent and knows how big the difference between the imports and domestic vehicles are. We can all debate soft plastics, how many air bags a vehicle has (like how the Equinox gets the same crash rating as the new CR-V without the side air bags!), etc., but most customers biggest concern is COST OF OWNERSHIP. A wise salesperson (who sells domestics, that is ) is prudent to point that out.

Try working for a company where the General Manager is the son of the owner, who knows very little about the daily operations. He screams and yells at meetings (when he bothers to show up at all). He rants and raves, drags out all kinds of BS statistics and figures (does he not think we can't call up other dealers and find out the truth?), berates us for all being losers, then forgets that the dealership was just awarded a prestigious award. Who does he think got him that award? The good news is that we don't see him for days upon days at a time. Now, he has hired a manager so incompetent, that not only do I (and others) have to show him on a daily basis how to turn on his computer, he openly cannot work a deal. Seriously. He has no clue. Then again, I am sure he makes half as much as the new car manager that he replaced, who in turn made about half as much as the new car manager before him, who made half as much as the only good new car manager this place has had since I have been there. I guess you get what you pay for! Reminds me of an old adage: BUSINESS AND POLITICS ARE LIKE A SEPTIC TANK. THE BIG PIECES FLOAT TO THE TOP.

We live in interesting times. I am afraid that we may soon look upon the Cold War as "the good ol' days." I hope we are on the right track by trying turning China into another capitalist success. If we are wrong, we are only teaching them how to beat us at our own game.

okay, this is just silly - do any of you GET the fact that the Impala and the Civic don't even exist in the same Universe?????? "Oh, yes, Mr. Customer, you want to see a Cobalt? Well, let me show you the Impala instead." GOOD GRIEF!!! Is the Civic state of the art? Yes, it is. Is the Impala? No, it is a major refresh of an older platform. Do you think GM can wave its magic wand and do a ground up new full-size car (which would have to have started in 2002 or so to be on market for 2005) while defending its turf with the T-900s? Well, maybe if they threw out the entire UAW contract at the same time. I will only look upon the RWD Impala as (hopefully) a luxury, limited production replacement for my Oldsmobile customers that I have lost. The upcoming Malibu will be the volume leader, for sure as gas prices hit $5 a gallon for you guys. We are already at $5 a gallon here. Smart Cars, Yaris, Aveos are everywhere. I would rather have scrappy cars (GM-DAT?) to battle the Yaris and Fit, then a RWD Impala.

...........like the outside, luv the dash, the gages, HATE the seats. Did Chevy/Dodge get a 2for1 deal on those seats? Almost makes the Malibu seats look good!

My family has a divorce lawyer on retainer! My mother has been married 3 times - always to her husband's best friend. My aunt (her sister), ditto. My grandmother made it to #4 before she passed away - the first two were to her husband (at the time) best friend! My childhood sucked, but I will give my mother credit: despite a nasty divorce ( l later read transcripts from the divorce and letters ferried between my "father," and my mother before the divorce), she kept it away from us. She was bitter and both were heaping abuse on each other, but after the separation, I was unaware of how ugly it was. Kudos to her. Beware of separation anxiety. I ever saw my father for 4 years (we moved to Vancouver) when I was 6 and as a consequence, I put my father on a pedestal. That must really have grated on my mother, too, but she never said a disparaging word. Later, when I moved in with my father and I realized it takes TWO for a divorce, I understood better what she had gone through - and spared us. Good luck to you both, and remember my motto which helps me through bad times: In five years, you will look back on these trials and smile.

All of the above: 1) sampling bias 2) M-B has no business building $30k vehicles, and the kids who stretch to lease one are expecting perfection 3) unnecesary complication. Electronics and toys are causing a lot of problems in many high end vehicles these days 4) Being "cutting edge" sometimes mean being experimental and the customers are the test subjects

.........thank God Saturn doesn't haggle.

Ah, we Canucks ARE paying $5 a gallon ($1.10 a litre, these days) and I can tell you - no, a hybrid still doesn't make sense. Buy a 4 cylinder Malibu LS, which is $13,000 cheaper than a Prius (Canadian dollars, folks). How much gas would that buy at $5 a gallon? How many years would it take to get your money back? (I'd love to work it out, but I am still trying to figure out if I would rather have a milkshake or a beer......never mind!)

Isn't that an interesting question? All last year, many media outlets were referring to Toyota as "The biggest car company by market cap." Media bias? GASP! Self-fulfilling prophecy? NEVER!!

Wouldn't matter if the next Cobalt SS could fly and do dishes, import humpers and Japanese apologists everywhere (CR - are you listening) would find enough reasons to trash it! CAN ONLY FLY NEW YORK TO DENVER ON ONE TANK OF GAS. MY WIFE DOESN'T LIKE THE SCENT OF CARNATIONS COMING OUT OF THE GAS TANK. MY CAT FELL ASLEEP ON THE SEALY DASHBOARD AND GOT HAIR ALL OVER IT. THE IN-DASH DISHWASHER IS NOT SELF-UNLOADING.

Okay, if I had a choice between a beer or a milkshake, I'd take a beer right now, thanks. And a Civic loaded up is about the same PAYMENT as a LT Impala, too (in this market - 0% financing and all). Chew on that one.

Okay, first and easiest thing to rebut is the LT comes only with a 3.5 litre engine, so you must have been driving a prototype...or you could have been driving an LTZ with the 3.9 litre and 17" wheels. I could simply say that the Impala is $7,000 less than a comparably equipped Avalon. I would agree with most of your complaints if they were applied to the Buick. Cost cutting has to come from somewhere and this is an Impala, NOT a Buick. Historically, the Impala was NEVER GM's cutting edge vehicle. * No 6 speed automatic...wish it did have one, but I'll bet the plant(s) are being converted as fast as they can. Probably not so easy to drop a new tranny in an existing vehicle. Wait for the 2009. This is not a Buick. *3,500 rpm//pushrod engine...hmm...aren't OHC engines supposed to LIKE revving higher and pushrod engines not so much? 6 spd would help. Buy an SS. *Rear seat is limited. Could be the architecture. Could be that the front seats are thicker than the previous generation. You'd be surprised at how many people don't give a damn about the back seat. *Sliding my feet under the front seat is not a problem. Getting them back out again - well, that is a little trickier! *Bitching about the trunk space/rear seat room is more of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. People are pretty damned impressed with the sheer size of the trunk, and the LTZ has a standard pull down rear seat which makes ALL of the trunk easily accessible. (I am shocked that you missed whining about the absence of a trunk key hole! Shame on you!) *PRNDL? When is the last time you looked at yours? It's on the dash at the base of the steering wheel, anyway. Better to keep your eyes where you are going. This one is purely subjective. After a couple weeks I venture to say most people drive by "touch" with the gear shifter. *The rental queen remark is a cheap shot. Most people like the understated look of the Impala. Chevrolet is conservative. It looks a helluva lot better than the Avalon, IMO. Soon people will be bitching they can't rent their favorite GM car because GM has cut back their rental fleet sales. *We were told Auto Up is costly to do it right and the lawyers won't let it be done without the proper sensors, etc. Who has this feature anyway, on a $25k car? My Impala doesn't have air conditioned seats, either - I mean why stop with the lack of auto up? *You must have had an LTZ with leather, because on the base LTZ the passenger doesn't even get a power seat at all! It only comes with the leather. Again, THIS IS NOT A BUICK. * I hate the Japanese style steering wheel that GM is going to. The tilt on the Impala and the Uplander (two of the few vehicles the "old style" tilt are still left on is better, IMO. It is spring loaded to get out of the way to aid in ingress and egress. Over all, I would have to say you HATED the Impala or your Bentley was in for service, whatever. Undoubtedly, GM made compromises with the Impala, but there is no limit to the wish list of items that could or could not be in a vehicle. I could make a similar list of the Camry, but nothing can be taken out of context and PRICE is a huge context. I hope GM gets to the point where it can charge more than a Camry, but we aren't there yet and until we are, I am glad to see GM spending much of its money where it counts. The last generation Malibu lasted 7 years with just a recovering of the seats. The last generation Impala has been nearly completely overhauled in 6 years. As I have said before, GM clearly did not give a damn about their cars until the past two or three years because they were making too much money on trucks. That has clearly changed and is changing. Let all of us so-called GM fans pray that it is going to be fast enough to counter the Japanese tide.

History may not have judged that move favorably, but it does make one wonder if the Cold War would have turned out different, doesn't it? Think of the billions and billions of dollars wasted over 40 years to guard Europe and Japan against a menace that could have been dealt with at a time when the U.S. had a clear lead in technology and ability. Just think of what may have happened if the Allied Forces had kept on going through Berlin and into eastern Europe, all the way to Moscow. Entire generations of people's lives have been wasted, both in Eastern Europe, Russia and Asia, due to the hopelessness spread by Communism. Just wonder.......

That's the beauty of a Communist system: the government can DO anything it wants. Look at the Three Gorges Dam - they moved over a million people. Try and do that over here! They can ship all the food they want here, because the Press over there is not free to report it so if the peasants are starving nobody over there will know. Everyone (including us in the West) are getting bamboozled by the spectacle of the awesome skyline in Beijing and Shangai. Nobody is looking below this facade.

I do this now with the Corolla and Cobalt, but then since we own a Toyota store it is easy for me to do (although the GSM over at the Toyota store is less than thrilled about it). The ride/handling story between the Cobalt/Corolla is night and day. The value story clinches the deal. Although, one of the guys just "lost" a deal today: the customer compared the Uplander to the Corolla and said he would take the Uplander if we could match Toyota's price. Funny thing is, the Uplander is almost the same price (in our market.) But this is the kind of insanity that we are dealing with regarding the import humpers.

I understand the dangers of advertising for the competition, but Toyota in particular has been relentless and unerring in their marketing approach. I give them credit for that. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Toyota's juggernaut must be stopped, and that means forgetting about the gentleman's agreement that Ford and GM promoted for decades. People who would have been total "shoe-ins" five years ago are shopping Toyota and Korean makes. GM has to shake things up to get back on top again. If they are so confident in the '08 Malibu, then even a clod salesperson should be able to do a fair comparison. Currently, it would take a very experienced salesperson to comare the Malibu or Impala against the Camry; however, if the new Malibu is all that maybe GM knows something.....just maybe.

Free Trade cannot exist in a vacuum, for sure. A free Press is probably more important, and that is something that China does not have. For example, if lard was made out of human feces and a disgruntled employee went to a national paper (not local, because even in our countries they don't like to rock the boat) and blew the whistle, bad publicity would ruin that company. Currently, Chinese companies don't have that worry - at least not over there. I recently shopped for a new a/c unit, and let me tell you - finding one NOT made in China is impossible. I went to Canadian Tire, Home Depot, Wal-Mart (I was getting desperate), The Bay and Sears - they were all made in China. Future Shop's was quite clever, however - their a/c unit while claiming to be an American company, in the fine print said Made in PRC (People's Republic of China.) Clever, very clever. So, I gave up and bought a 6,000 btu unit with remote control, timer and all the bells for $230. My Carrier unit (made in Canada) that I bought 5 years ago (and use in another room) cost me $400. I guess the $64,000 question is: Is the economy truly better off because I have an extra $170 in my pocket? Perhaps, if I spent that money on something actually made here in North America, or went to a restaurant, for example. But what if I spent the money on, say, a toaster also made in China? I don't have the answer, but economists and staticians scare me. I see in my own line of work how they twist and distort figures to suit their agenda, without actually lying. Is an omission a lie? I personally don't see any inherent value in legions of service workers (bankers, insurance agents, administrators, etc.) replacing manufacturing base jobs. I mean, do those fat cats in Wall Street or Madison Avenue produce anything? They push paper around and produce paper profits. But if all the factories, mines and technical staff for those factories and mines are overseas, what is left of us? At the rate things are going, Asian and Middle Eastern companies or countries are going to own so much of us that they will be calling the shots. Dig deep into some of the biggest American or Canadian companies and see who is buying up their shares. I'll give you a hint: who has the cash?

Well, well, the gulf that separates us ain't so big after all! I, too, lay awake at nights, wondering how things have become so unravelled in the past five years or so! Playing armchair critic can be so exhausting, eh? I don't think the new reality is all that bad, as long as both GM, the UAW/CAW and the dealer body can accept that 20% market share is the new reality and plan for that. If the hurdle of contract negotiations are handled well this Fall, then I think GM is on the right track for a renaissance. I, too, wish more could be spent on product design and execution, but with the $1,700 a vehicle disadvantage, that isn't easy, is it? I don't know Rick Wagoner. Never met the man. I don't know if a change of captains is such a good idea, but then we will see what good or damage Mullaly acheives over at Ford. We have wandered way, way off topic, but perhaps the Civic is a good place to return to topic: it is a good car, but it is also the only small car Honda has to focus on. (Well, I guess the Fit would make two.) GM has the Cobalt/G5 and the Ion, plus all the European & Australian small cars - that is the greater issue: too many nameplates chasing a diminishing market. Honda and Toyota have the advantage of newer factories, younger and cheaper workers, plus they have not burned as many bridges behind themselves with the media. Sometimes I wish I sold cars in the '60s when there was half as many makes and models to worry about! I sure hope that the consumer really appreciates all this "choice," because my BIGGEST fear is that, regardless of the root reasons, we are selling our futures, and both America and Canada will become "has-been" backwaters in the not too distant future.

I find selling crack at the local public school in a trenchcoat makes me feel clean again.............

Chevrolet. Used to be Oldsmobile, too. I can sell Toyotas, but only when forced to....