Drew Dowdell

The Accord didn't get a V6 until 1995. I have a CTS now.... for another 2 days. While I do like the car, I'm tired of the ride over the terrible terrible roads here in Western PA. I'm replacing it temporarily with a borrowed 1996 Roadmaster Estate that I'll drive till I leave for Germany. Once I'm over there, I have no idea what I'll get.... I have my eye on a CTS 2.9 litre diesel, but the BF likes the Astra Twintop. If I were shopping for a car today I'd be looking for 1996 Fleetwoods.... if I bought new, I'd go either DTS or Lucerne.

Volvo 240chero

I don't have plans that far out and I'm only 4 hours away..... 3.5 if I unleash the power of this fully armed and operational battle wagon!

you should really check out the group in my sig.

so... I should make this thread unsearchable by Google unless Acura pays me one meeeeeellion dollars! *pinky finger to mouth* muahahahahahahaah mmuahahahahahah

more posts than sales....

I have a very very happy boyfriend. It's not always the range of the shot, but the rounds in the clip that matter.

awww... come over here ya big bmw humpin lug! oh.... wait... I'm being called upstairs.... I'll be back in an hour.... or two.

Not to rag on your driving, but you get 18mpg highway in a CTS 6-speed.

The next Prius will actually be the 4th generation... 1st gen was Japan only doesn't add anything to the argument, I just like pointing out when you're wrong. GM effectively will be running 3 levels of hybrid technology simultaniously. Mild <Aura, Malibu>, Medium <Vue, Escalade and Tahoe two mode>, and Hot <Volt> In terms of level of effectiveness, Toyota's technology falls somewhere between GM's Mild and GM's Medium. The next Prius is supposedly just going to be a more efficient version of the current technology. As additional Two-Modes come online and the Volt enters the arena, GM will effectively pass Toyota in the hybrid race. Sometimes there are causes greater than just money. Many people buy hybrids not to save money, anyone standing between a Prius and a Corolla can figure that out without a calculator, but they buy them to help the environment or to help reduce our dependence on foreign oil..... yet you refuse to buy a hybrid because they don't save you money <like the CTS does....> When will you ever show leadership at this level?

And this has to do what with the Volt exactly? Not the same supplier for not the same technology.... in short, completely irrelevant .

$63,000 for a great handling AMC Concord? MB will get help from SMART... but they're only expecting 30k-40k in sales from that division. M-B will need a LOT more than that to cover the upper end of their range. Cadillac should NOT get the hybrid system the Malibu has. It should get the 2-mode hybrid system the Vue is getting..... but then you'll be in here tapdancing around the 4-speed in the 2-mode while ignoring the two electric CVTs that are also included and whining about how BMW has a 12speed for only $50,000 more.

Why must we kill everything that doesn't ride like a 3-series?! Some of us want big, comfortable, and soft.

I'm going to enroll you in a Logic and Debate classes at CMU. Please explain why you think it is logical to compare fuel economy of a V12 in a sedan to the fuel economy of a V8 in a full sized SUV. The 6.0 litre V8 in the Corvette gets better fuel economy than the V12 in the 7-series.... 'splain that logic Lucy! In short, put the BMW V12 in something the size, shape, and weight of an Escalade and see where it's fuel economy heads. I would fully expect that Cadillac would throw additional technology at the HF-series engines to make them able to compete in the $60,000 price class. If BMW and Benz continue to build V8s and V12s expect their price to rise substantially. E550s could easily push up into the high 70s base price just to pay the CAFE fine. Why do you not acknowledge that GM has 2 new diesels and the 2-mode hybrid coming? Why do you cite BMW's future products without also citing GM's? You claim to be a GM fan, yet your German car humping is pornographic. Edit: Oh look... pricing released for the X6: BMW X6 xDrive 50i - $63,000 base.

1. Volume doesn't matter, percentage of fleet does. 2. EPA ratings mean squat to CAFE. CAFE has it's own rating system. 3. Cars and light trucks are currently considered separately... meaning a Silverado would not get canceled out by a hybrid CTS. 4. The Germans don't care about CAFE, they just pay the fine and charge you more for the vehicle. I'm not opposed to Cadillac doing the same thing.

I really question if BMW will be able to continue to offer V8s or Twin Turbo V8s in the time frame we're referring to.. at the very least not without charging substantially more in order to cover the CAFE fine. 6 cylinders are going to become the new standard in luxury cars with 8s and 12s available only in the 100k+ plus price range.

No, BMW just has 15mpg M3s, M5s, X5s, 6-series, and 7-series..... 16mpg X3s...... and they pay the CAFE fine every year. I would imagine Acura has CAFE credits much like GM does.

Lets play "Name the unwarranted assumptions"! 1. you assume a new RL will be the same price as the current one. 2. you assume a new RL will have a 400+ hp V8 as the base engine. 3. you assume that Cadillac is standing still.... remember, the HF engines were designed with turbocharging in mind and their displacement can be increased to almost 4 litres.

You drive a Northstar. You know there is more to that engine than the numbers indicate. I brought up the DTS because if you're going to spend 46k and want a nice compliant ride, you can't get much plusher than the DTS. Not everyone wants to be carving up canyon roads or drag racing in their luxury car. The fact that the DTS still outsells the DTS retail is proof of that. The STS could be better. The outside is very attractive with the update.... now if they had only but a CTS styled interior in it and only sold the extended wheelbase model sold in China it would sell better. As it is, even in it's damaged state, Cadillac still has more prestige at this dollar level than Acura. The difference here is that Cadillac could sell the STS with it's current formula plus a few tweaks. Acura is going to have to completely re-write the RL if they want to play here. Acura has never played here.... Cadillac has.. and they just need to get their mojo back.

uh... what? 48k is a loaded CTS... 46k is pretty close.

It is exceedingly hard to justify the RL at $46,000 when for the same price you can get the more exciting CTS with AWD, STS V8 or DTS with a better ride, the more prestigious 3 or 5 series BMWs, the better value holding Lexus GS, the safer S60 and S80, the more stylish A6, the substantially more powerful Chrysler 300c SRT-8, the more snobish C-class and E-class. in fact, the only luxury car in this price range that is less relevant than the RL would be the Infiniti M-Class.

Except that the F-150 and Silverado are still considered by the media <up until this year> as the "ideal" trucks on the market. Notice however the media's great efforts to steer people towards the new Tundra even in light of the fact that it is a clearly inferior product if only in terms of reliability <yes, a warping tailgate is unreliable>.... and one year into the media j/o and it's already starting to have an effect. No, Toyota won't sell 800k pickups in it's first year on the full size market.... but they got close to 200k with only two body styles and no HD options. To put this in perspective, they sold nearly 1/2 as many Tundras as they did Camrys in the first year of their first real entry into the full sized truck market. They did this with the help of the car rags in spite of the numerous quality issues and design flaws in the truck. You can't say that there isn't an "imported is better" mentality in this country, stoked by the media, when you look at a vehicle like the Tundra that is eclipsed entirely by the domestics, has numerous majors problems, yet still manages to take down almost 200k sales in it's first year.... one year after the fantabulously new GMT-900s came on the market. If you are right... and vehicles are judged solely on their merits and not on the preconceived notions of the public and media, then the Tundra should fade into obscurity like the Titan has. As much as I'd love to see the Tundra fade into obscurity, dontthinkitsgonnahappen.com

Suzy McMansion wouldn't be caught dead in a GM product, first because it isn't imported, second, the press and automotive "experts" like you have decreed that BMW is the ideal car that all others should try to emulate. Any car that falls short of BMW's performance benchmark is crap regardless of other attributes (See: every SMK post about the '08 CTS). You and I have had this same basic argument before. The definition of "luxury" has changed substantially in the last 30 years... however, this change was brought about mostly by media based "ideals". An early '80s BMW 3 is nothing more than a Hi-PO RWD Jetta without the reliability. In the 70s and 80s, luxury was defined by soft plush seats, effortless steering, gobs of torque, silent engines, large cabins and trunks, and smooth compliant rides. Today luxury is defined in 0-60 times, Gs, firm bolstered seats, cockpit like cabin, "pleasing exhaust note" whatever that is, and hi-reving engines. Neither definition is "better" than the other.... however one is marketed as "better" through traditional advertising and the automotive media and "experts" like you. BMW and Honda have religious cult like followings.... however most of the members cannot justify their desires outside of group think preferences. If GM were really smart they would market the new Saturns as "Imported from Europe" or some such..... just those 3 little words would help sales tremendously.

my new sig