Drew Dowdell

Camaro was busy stomping on the Mustang here in the US during 4 of those 5 years.  

GM's more interested in growing Buick and Cadillac.  Buick is a huge money maker for them over there where they can sell re-badged Daewoos at the low end for big markups and charge Benz like prices for the Encore and the GL8. Buick has been a prestige brand since the last time China had an Emperor.  Where is Lincoln?  Just getting started. 

Let's compare numbers....

During March the Ford sold 90,457 units, down biggly.

General Motors delivered a March record of 345,448 vehicles

GM sold 2.5 times as many Envisions as Ford sold Mustangs. 

GM sold nearly as many Buicks in China (88,519) than Ford sold vehicles of any brand and any size.

Chevy just isn't one of the bigger brands for GM in China. They use their other brands there.... so it's not a big surprise that Camaro sales are low.

In the end, I'm not really all that concerned about Camaro or Mustang sales in China... as the original article implies, muscle cars (or more properly, pony cars?) have never been a big deal to the Chinese, so the sales of these two cars there is a relatively new phenomenon. The Chinese go for big, soft luxury... being chauffeur driven has been the prestige there.  Hard to have a chauffeur with a Camaro or Mustang.

34 minutes ago, loki said:

any chance my bad rep will go away or be drastically reduced?   those are like from another lifetime. lol

I can Zero you out if you want to start from scratch

Voting is going to change in a few months anyway.  I"ve been testing out version 4.2 of the software and it has "reactions" rather than voting up or down.

I'm not sure GM was even trying with the Camaro over there.... leaving it with limited importation due to cost.  It was a big deal that they even imported the Enclave over there.

16 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

What is it with you all whining about votes? 

The problem is when you and a select other few vote troll.  Meaning, someone who you don't like posts "Air contains oxygen" and you vote them down for it.  Unfortunately, this software doesn't have a mechanism for dealing with that sort of pettiness, so I have to spank you manually. 

2 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

That could be mistaken for Detroit...

Yeah, Capitalism did similar things to Detroit as well.  When they starting to put short term profits over long term product quality. When they started considering people disposable.  When they started moving jobs overseas because they forgot the lessons of Henry Ford; pay your workers a wage that they can afford the products they build.  You can head over to Detroit and survey the destruction of rampant capitalism all you want. 

30 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

I win...

When you can't debate without name calling, it is you that lost.

Debate 101

You lost when you downvoted him for making factual statements. 

12 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Makes one wonder just how fast we will change over from an ICE to an EV culture once people have test drove an EV. Since Torque is 100% from Zero, the smoothness that you experience is just amazing. Anyone that has driven a Tesla, Bolt, Leaf knows this and realizes, HP is a piece of the puzzle that moves an auto. Torque is the more important piece and allows one to have a truly satisfying experience of silky smooth motion.

I agree with you that I would take the smoothness of the older V6 over the 4 banger.

Horsepower is the measurement of torque over time.  A Tesla has max torque at zero RPM, but it also has ZERO horsepower at that point.  Horsepower is a marketing gimmick and largely irrelevant to the every day driver.  It's only relevant to race car drivers.

15 minutes ago, loki said:

and we'll never see it (3.5 or 3.9) with a 6-speed(+) and updated like the 4.3 has been. with a straight ratio for hp the 3.5 would make ~231hp, and ~258 for the 3.9. those look like great 2.0L Turbo replacement ranges for those that don't want a turbo in midsize and large sedans to midsize crossovers and ... small trucks.

Always liked Dwightlooi's technical ideas and explanations.

Sadly, the 4.3 is actually small enough to fit under the hood of the new Impala. They just won't do it.

One wonders what the government of Venezuela plans to do with an auto manufacturing plant that has no parts suppliers.  At this point, it's just a large box on land.

That would be relevant had we been talking about that period in time.  We are not.  We are discussing the 150 or so years of "pure capitalism" that @hyperv6 referred to.... a capitalism that only existed due to theft, indentured servitude, and slavery by the capitalists..... or as Hyper likes to call it "the good old days"

@trinacriabob - yeah, the 3500 and 3900 both hold up very well.  I continue to be impressed with their smoothness.  It's a shame that the Horsepower per Liter crowd killed them in the marketplace.  The 3500 may only make 219 hp which is just higher than the 196hp in the new 2.5 in the base Impala, but it also makes 35 lb-ft more torque and at a lower RPM.   I know I'd rather have the smoothness of the 3500 over the rather rough sounding (even as far as 4-cylinder go) 2.5 liter.

it's utterly ridiculous and a failure of our education system that this thread even exists.  The number of falsehoods in @hyperv6 post from 8 hours ago is enough to make any 6th grade teacher want to quit their job and go be a sniper instead.

Puritans did NOT come to the the new world to escape persecution. You apparently never learned anything about them beyond the cartoony 4th grade level.   The Puritans came here because they weren't allowed to persecute to the level they wanted to.  King Charles I, who himself was not afraid to have people killed for not adhering to a rather strict faith, had to tell the Puritans to knock it off with the persecution of other religions.  So in an effort to be as strict as possible they decided to break away from England.  Even when they came to the new world, the Puritans would execute followers of other faiths.  So let's make sure we get the facts straight.... the Puritans were the contemporary equivalent of Wahhabism type of Islam.  

Just to correct at least one of the falsehoods in that long post. 

The idea that the New Deal was supposed to be temporary (nothing which could be further from the truth, especially given the quotes from FDR at the time) is the EXACT reason why we are falling behind again today. 

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

We live in a capitalist/socialist hybrid. 

What capitalists don't like to admit is that we got "great" by adopting more socialism and we've gotten less great as we've moved towards more pure capitalism.   The reality is there is a scale and somewhere mid-point between socialism and capitalism is the best point. 

Really @hyperv6, you're going to vote me down because I said the world isn't black and white?  Or are you just one of those who doesn't like to admit that socialism had a large part in pushing this country forward?

We live in a capitalist/socialist hybrid. 

What capitalists don't like to admit is that we got "great" by adopting more socialism and we've gotten less great as we've moved towards more pure capitalism.   The reality is there is a scale and somewhere mid-point between socialism and capitalism is the best point. 

How does the blue car not project rearward from the sheet metal? I can clearly see it projecting when looking at the inside side of the tail light?

Anyway.... I think modern interpretations of the fin using plastic or even light piping are at least doable. 

Interesting that Benz has decided on cribbing old Buick grilles for the upcoming look. 

Even the current Frontier isn't that bad.  A bit outdated in terms of infotainment tech, sure, but as a smallish truck, it works. 

On 4/21/2017 at 2:16 PM, ccap41 said:

They have a 1.6L turbo diesel in their Equinox that gets 40mpg and a Bolt that's full EV.

That diesel is probably more fuel efficient than a hybrid right now.

Edit: Sorry the Niro has three different ratings. Highest is 52/49 and the top trim has the lowest rating at 46/40. The middle rating is 51/46.

Niro doesn't have AWD.

13 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Remember the 2-mode hybrid GM put in the Tahoe and Escalade? What happened to that?  Are they still building those?  Either way, they can refine that technology and then apply it to all the CUVs in GMs stable, not just the large SUVs.

The only reason Honda hybrids are not as successful is because Honda did not market an iconic, unique hybrid like Toyota did with the Prius.  The Insight might have been just as good or better, but all the buzz all went to the Prius.  What Honda should do is market and promote a great hybrid CUV (separate from the CR-V) to counter Toyota and make itself the hybrid maker of this decade. 

The technology from the 2-mode served as a learning point for the new Hybrid Drive in the Cadillac CT6. Though technically now a 4-mode hybrid, they are not marketing it as such.  There is no physical relation between the two technologies. They are similar in abstract concept only. 

Cue with Carplay and Android auto is better. Sounds about the same as the regular Cadillac Bose. (panaray is only on CT6 and I think Escalade). 

The G90 feels bigger because it is... Especially in width. XTS interior is showing it's age.

The CT6 is the more apt comparison and I think Cadillac did the better job on the interior there.

4 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Ouch.. didn't even mention Cadillac...

How do you like them? They've very intriguing vehicles now that they are separated from Hyundai and have their own chassis and engines.

This was not a drive, it was just a crawl all over the interior.  For most people in this class, the G90 is a very credible entry.  There are only a couple of places where the technophile in me would consider it a letdown.  It only has one USB port for the front and it is awkwardly placed if you like to keep things neat.  The entertainment system's USB interface with Apple music was terrible, interfacing with Android was non-existent. Kia's own UVO entertainment system is easier to use and features CarPlay and Android Auto. I fiddled with it enough to hook my android up via Bluetooth and the sound system was very good, but not excellent. The Germans top sound systems and Cadillac's Panaray are all above the Genesis in sound quality.

However... if you're a certain demographic.... wealthy, not a badge snob, not an extensive audiophile or technophile, the rest of the G90 is a very comfortable place to be. 

Would I spend $74k on one like the one I sat in?  Probably not. But it is just about the only car that has this kind of size at this kind of price. 

Oh... and I guess I should mention: $74k is the price of a LOADED V8 AWD G90.... it's also the price of a BASE Lexus RWD V8 LS, probably it's most direct competitor. 

Genesis certainly feels credible when I spend a bunch of time in a G90 last week. 

On 4/13/2017 at 7:13 PM, Paolino said:

Yes, but unfortunately a base FWD S90 with the air suspension is about $50,000... I do love that they don't force you to go top trim for some creature comforts.  I wish more things on cars were a la carte.

That really sounds about right for that level of car though.  The new S60 would probably have it available too in a few years. 

On 4/15/2017 at 8:14 AM, frogger said:

I LOVE the old more anachronistic previous gen that ended around 2008?  I would have one of those if they were easy and affordable to maintain.  I would add it to that "classic car" thread where I chose a 911... Current one doesn't do that much for me so no big loss, they can always bring back the name in the future.

 

 

 

They're not terrible to maintain. Mostly Ford product mechanically, no excessive electrical gremlins to speak of... and you can get them cheap. Heck, my 2004 Honda is costing me more than a car payment a month just to keep it fully operational.  I doubt a 2006 XJ8 with 66k miles would cost more to maintain than the $275 a month it would cost to finance it.