carman21

Just a guess on the GMT-400s. Instead I'll calll it GMT-360b for the time being.

Chevrolet has been FWD only aside from the Corvette for about 5 years. It hasn'y had a mainstream rwd cars for 10 years. I think its about time we had both RWD muscle cars and RWD sedans. However, this hardly means that FWD will be abandoned. Ok, let's see the Line-up for 2009 Aveo on Gamma 1A Cobalt on Delta 1B Malibu on Epsilon 1B Bel Air on Chi 1A Nova on Zeta SWB 1A Impala on Zeta LWB 1A Camaro on Zeta SWB 1A HHR on Delta 1B Equinox on Theta 1B Trailblazer on Lambda 1A Blazer on GMT-400?(next midsize GMT platform) Tahoe/Suburban on GMT-900 Colorado on GMT-400? Silverado on GMT-900 Express on GMT-900 I forget Tell me whatcha think?

Northstar, I usually agree with 90%of the time but, I'm just suggesting ideas not facts on Saturn's Future with in GM. Ok, point taken not much comes from Germany for either brand. MB & Holden act as sources of modern RWD technologies. Chrysler wants to get VW platforms in exchange for giving VW a minivan. The 2007 Sebring & Avenger is the last co-op project between Mitsu & Chrysler. So, VW either the Jetta or Passat will serve as a basis for the next Sebring/Avenger. The Corsa may be overkill in the US market. Pontiac is the clearest candidate for a Youth brand in GM. GM does not as of yet have cheap enough RWD technology that would interest young people for price or their parents for safety(many parents grew up on the myth of RWD is too dangerous in the rain, ice, or snow).For now, FWD is Pontiac's best bet aside from the Solstice. Buick has the best quality of any non-luxury brand. The Lucerne CXS actually is cheaper in price than a Avalon. So, Toyota is in reality is what Buick should try to copy. Lincoln is way more expensive than Buick. Mercury does compete with Buick but, barely anymore. Chrysler's 300 sells its V-6 versions from $22-28k. Way cheaper than a Lucerne. Buick could be a luxury player but, that would hurt Cadillac and I rather have a non-luxury Buick than a weak or low volume Cadillac. The Saturn answer to the 300 would look more European due to its Opel-insipred styling. Chevy would look old-school 1960s Chevy. The Charger look far more American than the 300 in my book. Thjat is kinda subjective though. Hummer is moving downscale and more fuel efficient besides they are targeting the same demographic as Saturn. Yuppies trying to be diffrent.

Let's do a comparison between Chrysler & Saturn Chrysler gets products from Germany Saturn gets products from Germany Chrysler gets its RWD technologies from Mercedes Saturn could get its RWD technologies from Holden Chrysler will get its future FWD platforms from German VW. Saturn will get its future FWD platforms from German Opel Chrysler sells Jeep at its dealers. Saturn could sell Hummer at its dealers. Obviously these are not currently the total reality for both brands but, they do both seem potentially similar. If Holden sells both RWD and Opel models then why shouldn't Saturn do the same? I think Chevy & Saturn should have RWD. Chevy would do American style RWD while Saturn will seem far more European. Compare Dodge vs. Chevy & Chrysler vs. Saturn. So, what does Saturn look like, if looks more like Chrysler or Holden. Corsa Astra Aura Omega(Commodore) Insignia(Caprice/Statesman) Vue Outlook Sky Saturn makes more sense than Pontiac or Buick for RWD because, Pontiac is GM's youth brand. Like Scion, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Pontiac buyers show no interest in the GTO, Grand Prix, or Bonneville. The G6 is a luxury car to these kids. Pontiac must stay FWD only, except for the Solstice. Buick on the other hand competes with the demographic whom buys Toyotas, Hondas, & Nissans. So, Buick should stay FWD except for a RWD Zeta halo car to take on the Mazda RX-8, Nissan 350Z, & Toyota Supra. In review, Saturn goes Holden crazy and Hummer moves into Saturn dealerships. The Saturn-Hummer channel is born. Well, I'm sure you want to tell me what you think.

The 20/28MPG figure was produced partially by the 6spd auto however, Toyota recieved similar numbers with its 5spd coupled to the 3.3L V-6. The Toyota 3.5L V-6 gets 22/31. So, I believe Direct Injection will allow GM's 3.6L V-6 to see similar numbers to Toyota's 3.5L V-6, perhaps better since GM will use a more advanced six sped auto than the Avalon's 5spd auto. My point is GM is rapidly catching up. Add AFM to the DI 3.6L V-6 and we may see big jump in MPG. For Instance, the 5.3L V-8 used in the Impala gets 20% better MPG than the non-AFM 5.3L V-8. 5.3L V-8 Without AFM 16/22 With AFM 18/28 The 6.0L 400hp V-8 on the Camaro concept with AFM gets 30MPG hwy that is a 50% yeild over the non-AFM 6.0L V-8. I can't wait until AFM gets added to the hosts of technologies already in GM's DOHC Engines

The FWD 3.6L V-6 is now rated at 20/28 with a 6spd Auto. That is a big jump. from the LaCrosse's 18/27. Dual-VVT makes all the difference. Original 3.6L V-6 240-270hp 18/27 MPG Upgrade with Dual VVT 240-270hp(appox) 20/28 MPG Upgrade with Direct Fuel Injection 288-324hp 22/31MPG The FWD applications will range from 288-306hp with ft/lb torque levels from the 260s to the 280s. Excellent news!

http://www.kia.com/080106.php Another Record Month for Kia

http://www.hyundainews.com/hyundainews/salesrel83.htm Another Record Month for Hyundai Nobody Posted Hyundai's July Sales Report Released 30 days ago. Until Now. No Biggie.

The HF V-6s need Dual VVT and DFI now!. Dual AFM and Dual Hybrids will be competing over the next decade to see which is better. Dual AFM is decades ahead of hybrids in technical sophistication. Dual AFM is also better since it requires a more simple system hence the phrase "keep it simple stupid". Hybrids are not cost effective.

Does anybody know if the Aura will get a 2.4L Ecotec?

I hear Jetta Designers Crying Now, LOL! Corolla + Chrome= VW Jetta Factoid: The Toyota Corolla will be the #1 selling Car in America during the 2007 MY.

I like it but, the next next CTS should be a fresher style. The next next CTS should move up to take on the 5-Series & GS. I think the next BLS should switch to Zeta to take on the 3 & IS. The next STS should move upscake to take on the LS anf Q or even the S & 7

The New York Times is totally unadulterated crap! I live in Jersey and the NYT doesn't reflect NYC or it suburbs. The NYT is bunch of wierdos with no real world experience with the real America that actually exists. Tom Friedman problably feels more at home in England where there are know British Automakers anymore. Tom Friedman can go to hell, along with all the rest of those F*** ups.

How about the next Equinox should be moved up to Lambda. I've heard of a possible new compact Theta CUV called the Traverse. Basically the same as the next Vue. Eventually the SWB GMT 900s may be replaced by the Lambda CUVs, wait for the V-8.

Buick's quality problems are more ue to the poor quality of the Rainier & Redevous and the subpar overall packaging of the Terraza. The LaCrosse and Lucerne are top notch. Fortunately, Buick will be replacing the Rainier & Rendevous soon with the exceptionally well executed and packaged Enclave. The next Terraza on Lambda will be dramaticcally better. The next LaCrosse will be excellent and the next Lucerne will be much better as well. Buick has nothing to worry about.

Yes,An Epsilon LaCrosse could sell 300k/yr. A 1 million figure for the Malibu is not serious. Just based on the mere 300% greater sales of the Impala over the Lucerne. I don't see GM wasting time on an Impala on Zeta. After all, the Charger sales were dismal compared to the 300s. The market for large RWD sedans may not get much bigger. GM should give Buick & Chevy some Zetas aimed towards the performance market. The Impala will remain a serious FWD car to be a value-based competitor to the Avalon. The W-body dies summer 2008. So, if there is to be a FWD Impala replacement on Chi it will come out Fall 2008 as an '09.

Ok, the Impala is not targeting the Camcord. That's the Malibu's job. The Impala is the best selling full-size sedan. It sells triple the number that the Lucerne does. If you figure that a well-designed & executed Epsilon LaCrosse could sell over 300k/yr. The Malibu could approach 1 million/year or double the Camry's figure. The Impala is very successful today. It would sell even better if it were updated dramatically from middle of the pack to leader of the pack. The Impala takes on the Ford 500, Dodge Charger, and Kia Amanti. The Impala sells more than the "cooler" RWD Charger. Hmm, I guess FWD still matters. Do not expect GM to gamble the success of the FWD Impala on a switch to RWD. I'd expect Chevy to build a Zeta with the Caprice or Bel Air names. The Chi Impala will arrive in fall 2008.

Not to knock Northstar. This seems awefully convenient. C&G blogs have been loaded with RWD Pontiacs for years. If its true then thats great otherwise its a terrible tease.

Saab will likely never live long enough t seriously be an Audi-fighter. Saturn may be heading off to attack Acura & VW. We already know that early UNOFFICIAL Prices start at $20k for the 2.4L I-4, the 3.6L V-6 would pull the cars price up to $30k. If tis is true then the Aura is almost as expensive as the Buick Lucerne, Buick's flagship. The Enclave is very nice. Hwever, it will likely be priced similar to that of the Lucerne. Yes, the car will compete on price with the RX350 but, it will be in a different class. Just as the Lucerne is competing with the ES350 on some levels but, for te most part the Lucerne is in a different class altogether. A Saturn Omega or Insignia could bring prices up to $50k especially with a V-8. Buick couldn't be priced above that without replacing Cadillac altogether. I'd suspect that GM is already ready to import Astras, Corsas and any other viable Opel to the US. Chevrolet-Pontiac-Buick-Saturn-Cadillac could work. However, Ironically wasn't the Olds Aurora priced well above the Buick LeSabre, its nearest GM relative. Olds was in a ay above Buick from time to time. Saturn would be no different. I'd say that this reliefs Buick to go after Toyota. Thats just my feeling. Here's a thought as well. Malibu-G6-Allure-Aura-BTS Impala-G8-Lucerne-Omega-DTS

Ok, points taken. I just think that Pontiac/Buick/GMC would thwart Toyota far better than Chevy. Chevrolet & Toyota are very different brands. Think about it. If Chevy really intends to take on Toyota then why is the Malibu prices for thousands less and have less features. The fact is that GM has no true Camry fighter until it gets a Buick Midsizer. Toyota is now premium or upscale when compared to Chevy. A Camry XLE V-6 compared to a Chev Malibu LTZ V-6 is almost as bad as comparing a Camry XLE V-6 to a loaded ES350. I hope I cleared things a bit more.

I personally think the Buick is best suited taking on Toyota, Nissan & Honda. Buick would be wise to compete directly against these big brands. Today, Buick is ripe to take a big chunk out of a market the grosses at least 4 million in sales every year. So, Buick could make a killing. Buick's Advantages Are: 1)Award Winning Quality 2)Established Premium Creditials. 3)A Large Dealer Network 4)Plenty of Oppurtunity to expand into new segments. 5)Is Cross-shopped largely by Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mercury, Chrysler, & other premium brand buyers. 6)A rapidly decling median buyer age. It declined from 74 to 69 from the late '90s to the early '00s. It is likely even lower now. These are just some advantages that I can think of at the moment. If you can think of more please say so. Here's my plan for Buick. Keep Buick upscale by staying away from cheaper veicles such as subcompacts & other entry vehicles. I see Pontiac taking up the lower end role in the Buick/Pontiac/GMC network.Pontiac would take on Hyundai with a slightly different American twist. GMC would also target Toyota with very competitive BOF midsize & fullsize SUVs. GMC would sell both a BOF light pick-up & a Unibody Light Pick-up. GMC would only sell BOF full-size Pick-ups. GMC's CUVs would be designed for more offroad applications. BOF midsize SUVs would be designed more for off-road use as Lambda CUVs fill the void for car-like BOF SUVs. Buick will target just about every segment in Toyota, Nissan, & Honda's line-ups. Buick Excelle=Toyota Corolla=Nissan Sentra=Honda Civic Buick Allure=Toyota Camry=Nissan Altima=Honda Accord Buick Lucerne=Toyota Avalon=Missan Maxima=Honda Inspire* Buick Signia?=Toyota Rav4=Nissan =Honda CR-V Buick Enclave=Toyota Highlander=Nissan Murano=Honda Pilot Buick Terraza=Toyota Sienna=Nissan Quest=Honda Odyssey Buick Velite=Toyota Supra=Nissan Z=Acura NSX Buick Invicta=Chrysler 300 * Note that the Inspire is actually a Japanese version of our Accord, it is sold as a competitor of the Nissan Teana(basically the Japanese Maxima). The Honda Inspire would likely be similar to the US market Avalon & Maxima Based on all this I would easliy predict a 400% sales increase by ten years from now. This growth rate is very conservative, it can be far higher. GM's hometeam advantage usually translates into when two products are percieved equally there will be greater volume with the domestic product.Please tell me what you think.

Saturn was orginally intended to be an All-American can-do brand. Remember back to the 80s when some American thought wejust couldn't build cars as well as the Japanese. So, GM developed a project brand of how to build an American Japanese car. It succeeded to the extent that it proved Americans can build great quality cars. This problably saved GM and Detriot from ruin. Bob Lutz said recently that Saturn will be an American version of Opel like England's Vauxhall or Australia's Holden. Well, Opel is VW's main German Competition. VW out prices all other non-luxury brands, including Toyota. This would likely mean Saturn's prices will sky-rocket to match those of VW. If Saturn sells well which it should, it will be very profitable but, this blocks any ambition that Buick might have to be a luxury brand. This new order of ranking would be. Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Saturn, Saab, & Caddy Saab on the other hand is becoming German as well. Saab has the ambition to become GM's Audi. I don't think that GM would allow Saab to surpass Cadillac in prestige or price but, it does add undo burden to GM in the luxury segment. Perhaps Saab could relieve Caddy from selling cheap cars less that $30k. This would keep Caddy a true luxury brand. The way we should look at things is through a 4 brand prizm, ignore the Eurobrands of Saturn & Saab. Instead concentrate on the 4 American brands. Chevrolet should block progress on Kia and other upstarts as well as compete with traditional rivals Ford & Dodge. Pontiac should block more advanced upstarts like Hyundai, Mazda, & Mitsubishi. Buick should take-on Toyota & GMC takes on Toyota trucks. Buick should compete with Mercury,Chrysler, Nissan, & Honda as well. Cadillac will take on its natural rival Lexus & Lincoln as well as BMW & Mercedes. Despite these unnerving possibilities GM will be fine over the long term. So, there is little need for worry. I just hate that Saturn may be lost to the Germans. Rolls Royce isn't quite British now that its German. I know GM still owns Saturn but, wasn't Saturn an American Dream not an European dream.

opps, sorry, could a moderator please delete this thread I meant it to be in the C&G Feature Articles. Unless u think its ok here. anyway. Saturn has gone global.

Saturn was orginally intended to be an All-American can-do brand. Remember back to the 80s when some American thought wejust couldn't build cars as well as the Japanese. So, GM developed a project brand of how to build an American Japanese car. It succeeded to the extent that it proved Americans can build great quality cars. This problably saved GM and Detriot from ruin. Bob Lutz said recently that Saturn will be an American version of Opel like England's Vauxhall or Australia's Holden. Well, Opel is VW's main German Competition. VW out prices all other non-luxury brands, including Toyota. This would likely mean Saturn's prices will sky-rocket to match those of VW. If Saturn sells well which it should, it will be very profitable but, this blocks any ambition that Buick might have to be a luxury brand. This new order of ranking would be. Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Saturn, Saab, & Caddy Saab on the other hand is becoming German as well. Saab has the ambition to become GM's Audi. I don't think that GM would allow Saab to surpass Cadillac in prestige or price but, it does add undo burden to GM in the luxury segment. Perhaps Saab could relieve Caddy from selling cheap cars less that $30k. This would keep Caddy a true luxury brand. The way we should look at things is through a 4 brand prizm, ignore the Eurobrands of Saturn & Saab. Instead concentrate on the 4 American brands. Chevrolet should block progress on Kia and other upstarts as well as compete with traditional rivals Ford & Dodge. Pontiac should block more advanced upstarts like Hyundai, Mazda, & Mitsubishi. Buick should take-on Toyota & GMC takes on Toyota trucks. Buick should compete with Mercury,Chrysler, Nissan, & Honda as well. Cadillac will take on its natural rival Lexus & Lincoln as well as BMW & Mercedes. Despite these unnerving possibilities GM will be fine over the long term. So, there is little need for worry. I just hate that Saturn may be lost to the Germans. Rolls Royce isn't quite British now that its German. I know GM still owns Saturn but, wasn't Saturn an American Dream not an European dream.

Saturn was orginally intended to be an All-American can-do brand. Remember back to the 80s when some American thought wejust couldn't build cars as well as the Japanese. So, GM developed a project brand of how to build an American Japanese car. It succeeded to the extent that it proved Americans can build great quality cars. This problably saved GM and Detriot from ruin. Bob Lutz said recently that Saturn will be an American version of Opel like England's Vauxhall or Australia's Holden. Well, Opel is VW's main German Competition. VW out prices all other non-luxury brands, including Toyota. This would likely mean Saturn's prices will sky-rocket to match those of VW. If Saturn sells well which it should, it will be very profitable but, this blocks any ambition that Buick might have to be a luxury brand. This new order of ranking would be. Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Saturn, Saab, & Caddy Saab on the other hand is becoming German as well. Saab has the ambition to become GM's Audi. I don't think that GM would allow Saab to surpass Cadillac in prestige or price but, it does add undo burden to GM in the luxury segment. Perhaps Saab could relieve Caddy from selling cheap cars less that $30k. This would keep Caddy a true luxury brand. The way we should look at things is through a 4 brand prizm, ignore the Eurobrands of Saturn & Saab. Instead concentrate on the 4 American brands. Chevrolet should block progress on Kia and other upstarts as well as compete with traditional rivals Ford & Dodge. Pontiac should block more advanced upstarts like Hyundai, Mazda, & Mitsubishi. Buick should take-on Toyota & GMC takes on Toyota trucks. Buick should compete with Mercury,Chrysler, Nissan, & Honda as well. Cadillac will take on its natural rival Lexus & Lincoln as well as BMW & Mercedes. Despite these unnerving possibilities GM will be fine over the long term. So, there is little need for worry. I just hate that Saturn may be lost to the Germans. Rolls Royce isn't quite British now that its German. I know GM still owns Saturn but, wasn't Saturn an American Dream not an European dream.