caddycruiser

That's what I'm wondering...

Pretty much dead on. Liking a product is subjective, but most would certainly agree had GM U.S. even had some of the mechanicals that Holden has been using for a while, in a larger span of cars than just the GTO, they'd have a lot less of a hump to get past today. Holden really makes some top notch stuff, the latest Zeta based cars being trully top notch, and most can't wait until the day they start showing up here in various forms--especially as the G8. That's not to get terribly off topic of your GP purchase--that's still a really cool ride and can be quite a fun one too, old tech and "old GM" regardless--just some confusion among some here why Holden turns you off so much. But still, beside the point, and congrats on the GP...from one Delawarean to another

That's really cool, and arguably worth the price. The only issue I'd have is that yes it's awesome beyond belief, but what would I do with it? Pay $100k and then keep it locked up again so I didn't add any mileage? Actually do drive it and flurry away that 20 y.o. newness? It's reasons like these that it's hard to sell cars like that, even at lower prices, because most people would rather just buy one with some miles and then have both a showpiece and a car they're not afraid to drive.

It's only a bad idea when you marry one to an already gruff and not too powerful 4-cyl, like Chrysler has, and then seemingly have no idea how to R&D tune it all. Same with GM and their "experiment" using a CVT in the VUE, only to cancel it early and have all those that were made be prone to failure and issues. Nissan uses more and more of them every year and has it down to a fine art almost, so it's kind of hard to make that blanket statement. But, that said, given how terrible Chrysler's CVT combo's are, it is good this car didn't have to get one.

So true, and I've had the same reaction in both PA and DE. They're EVERYWHERE, and I'm always seeing more and more new ones popping up with temporary tags and such. So in truth, the reaction to the styling and some other elements it gets from some of us on the net and from magazine reviewers really seem to have little effect at all on the real interest people are having and their checkbooks. Seems like a semi success to me. On this note, the convertible has always been a great seller--and massive rental or not--a surprisingly nice and well done car, and their 13 years of making them has really helped to make them better each year. I know a few people who've had several and just love them, and there's a few owner groups or two on the net jam packed with enthusiasts. Add in the new cars refinement, styling updates, and new features, and it should continue to do very well. In comparison, and just like said, the VW Eos is very well engineered but small, the Volvo C70 looks and is built great but is quite pricey as is the new BMW 3, and the Pontiac G6--though interesting to look at largely--really does seem to lack some refinement in both overall character and the top, etc., in comparison to even the Sebring (though that one is hard to explain).

Yep, and the thing about it was it wasn't really a very strong performer and was really from the "old" times in terms of refinement, but it didn't seem to matter, and people snatched up every one they could. That really goes to show something. Actually, right now one terrific one that's in production--but not really talked about because Jeep barely mentions it--is the '07 Grand Cherokee with MB's excellent new 3.0L BlueTec diesel. That's one of the best around, and I believe they've been building them since February, but I've yet to see one or even hear much of a review on one. Overseas, they also sell the 300 with the same 3.0 BlueTec, and people over there love them, and the only reason I can think they don't come over here is just production capacity or maybe not wanting to step on any E-class toes, even if the two cars are really in different classes. I'm itching to find a new Grand Cherokee CRD somewhere, but they're just too elusive. It'll continue for next year and beyond, though, so it should expand and get some great popularity before long, especially being worlds apart from the rough and gruff old CRD in the Liberty.

From the ordering guide: http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/...p;divisionID=10 ------------------- 2008 Aura Deletions Exterior paint colors (25U) Midnight Blue, (41U) Black Onyx and (63U) Berry Red New Features (DD0) Heated power-adjustable, driver-side auto-dimming, body-color manual folding mirrors available on XE Sedan with (PCM) Preferred Package and (LZ4) 3.5L Variable Valve Timing V6 engine Exterior paint color (37U) Deep Blue Exterior paint color (58U) Black Mist (extra-cost color) Exterior paint color (80U) Red Jewel Tintcoat (extra-cost color) Changes (223) Morocco Brown interior trim now includes embossed on door trim, steering wheel and shift knob (in addition to the seat inserts)

Yes, same with me too! We once had a new 2002 LeSabre Custom rental for a month while our 300M was being rebuilt, and that car was one of the smoothest, quietest, and most solid feeling vehicles we ever had--and it impressed us enough to actually plan on trading the 300M for one after we got it back. We didn't, but years later this past summer we considered a Lucerne as a gas saving measure. Being familiar with the platform and also the 3.8L, I expected the same level of refinement and solidity but taken to an even higher level and with a massively better interior. The style and interior were out of this world in comparison to the LeSabre, but the weirdest thing of all--the 3.8L was actually quite loud and very growly in comparison to any other vehicle I had experienced it in. Cruising, it was fine, but I'd take off from a stop and it was just a growly roar that you could feel and hear, and it didn't fall into the category of a pleasant sound by any means--it sounded like an old GM car with a worn exhaust, but only really from a stop. Same thing with another CXL V6 we drove later in the week, though it was a tad quieter and didn't strike me as much. So, it's definitely something weird, especially now that I've seen other people experience the same thing. Generally, it always had a bit of growl just due to nature, but even in cars like the LeSabre it generally seemed smoother and quieter somehow. Then again, not everyone is having this reaction to 3.8L Lucernes, so it very likely is just a semi common build issue, whether it be mounts, exhaust, or what have you. The first car in question also had a nasty front end vibration at certain speeds, which IS a common hit or miss G-body issue (and still ongoing ever since '95, in a variety of them), so who knows. Still love the car, and probably would stick to a 3.8L if I bought one for the great gas mileage, but I'd be curious to check out more examples to compare the noise.

The day a domestic maker (hopefully GM) has a typical sedan, coupe, or hatch that has an extremely efficient diesel available will be the day I'm in heaven! Right now, without a doubt, I wish I had an efficient and torquey diesel in a stylish package that wasn't overly expensive, and would LOVE if that kind of deal would ever be available in something like an Astra, etc. With the latest gas hike, I guess it's just my further lack of passion for a larger V8 (or even V6) vehicle, so I hope by the day I'm due or ready for a new car, there are actually a nice range of smaller diesel choices. So true. In reality, for years my Suburban driving mother had sworn she'd never drive a diesel just because they're too noisy and she always only thought of them as being in big trucks. Then a friend and co-worker bought one of the last '04 Jetta TDI's and she's not only seen the light, but has said how much she likes that car and how--if the day comes when she ever doesn't need the Suburban space--she'd love something just like it, both because of the style and the diesel. It's still a big perception thing, for sure. If amazing cars like the MB E320 CDI BlueTec were more widespread (quiet as could be, with loads of power and 35+ MPG on the highway all in a heavy luxury sedan), or VW could meet the emissions to get their diesels back sooner, and advertise the heck out of them, maybe they'd make a difference. ------------- But if it could be done, yes, sign me up for a diesel Astra too!

Peeled the trunk sticker and front plate off my '95 Fleetwood (it was big orange letters for a used car lot, so not the best look, and screamed USED LOT, like Frybrian mentioned), my dad scraped the black dealer name decal off his Roadmaster, and we also peeled the dealer sticker off the tailgate of mom's Avalanche merely because not that it looked bad but more that it had an air bubble and was already loose. On the other hand, we've kept the dealer logo on the corner of the tailgate of mom's Suburban for almost 3 years now, and I'm not sure why really. Probably because it's the local dealer who does all the service and it's actually very small and classy (if that's possible for a sticker), and was put on well. At least makes it more recognizable to the dealer, when it would go in, that it was bought from them. Either way, it actually looks good and is small, so we keep it. Otherwise, it all depends. Most of the time I really can't stand them--especially when it's like some local dealers who have a big supply of cars out where it looks like they had a toddler slap all the stickers on slanted or in weird places. Just depends. Oh! Just thought of a good one, though. One of our neighbors has a new Kia Sedona van. The dealer it came from uses stick-on molded blacks that are silver and black 3D's of their name and Kia. The WEIRD part? There's one in a normal spot on the tailgate, then another identical one 6 inches above it. Not usually something I'd even notice, but it just looks so strange and they've kept it like that for over a year, I've always been tempted to just peel one off when I'm out or at least ask them why it's like that...if they even notice.

I don't think so, and just as in that pic (which is a pretty ugly, but thorough chop of an Outlook with the Cheyenne grille and Tahoe wheels), it's just another mishmash guess. That said, I would HOPE it's differentiated like the Enclave is differentiated, but am having a strong feeling it's going to be another along the lines of the Tahoe-Yukon, Silverado-Sierra...essentially an Acadia made into a Chevy with some new pieces. Then again, this chop would be pretty close in that aspect. But we'll see.

Well, at least it's mostly better in a positive way, unlike the Buicks. The extra detailing inside and out helps change it quite a bit, actually, and the nose does look very fitting, plus the interior is a lot better--same shapes and such, actually, but the revised trimming (once again) helps a lot. Overall, the styling inside and out isn't nearly as cohesive and stunning as the new CTS, but it doesn't fall into boring either, just in between. Should be better, but until a more thorough re-do, hopefully it'll do. Plus some of the new features are nice, and the DI 3.6L & 6-speed should give a nice new bump to lower models.

Still the same in most. Well, unless you get a Toyota or Honda, then you're set--they ALWAYS give the digital clock it's own little rectangle somewhere separate, and not related to the stereo. I think a few new Ford products are also like this.

Great question, and one I too have been wondering, since although they don't look too bad, nearly everything else about them is a joke in comparison to other competitors.

Yeah, seriously, even with an objective view, these tiny little things really will do no benefit. Just along with your rebate and nice dealer discount, you'll have a somewhat more pleasant center stack finish in some models and a new color...hopefully enough to keep you from thinking about the grille point.

Aside from a grille and V8 option, whoop-dee-do, nothing at all it really needed.

Ok, I guess not all the center stacks are silver. So, again, why the hell did they keep this terrible one? And aside from color, nothing else looks different inside.

Love the Lucerne, and always thought *maybe* it'd be even better with a more detailed nose...but that grille with a point just looks like a mishap. The larger size and better detailing is nice, but it'd be better with a more appropriately curved lower side. Otherwise, like the Lucerne, they tried to mask the black center stack syndrome with silver, which is actually an improvement. Not huge, but still better than the terrible black. So now Buick is on grille overload...guess getting away from all their horrendous wheel designs for the past decade and a half had them chomping to screw something up. Then again, with the worst in world GM photography, it could be a lot better in person.

Hmm. Grille shape not bad, but actually doesn't jive as well with the rest of the body before, and it makes that atrocious and gawky front overhang seem even stranger. And onto the interior, aside from coloring, WHAT THE HECK IS THAT BIZARRE CENTER STACK STILL THERE FOR?! It never made sense in the first place, being unique of any other GM vehicle and bad at that. Then again, the silver is a pretty big improvement from the black, even if it remains weirdly different and lacking compared to every other GM car. Oh well. Hopefully it'll be dead before long, and replaced with something with properly svelte body proportions (not just a few), and a much more cohesive interior. Every time I see this view, it's like Pinocchio just lied...again...

Me either, because it is still a big, blocky, and heavy pig with bad aerodynamics, but as is, with the extra power and updates of the 6.2L plus the 6-spd that helps it better use every bit of that power, there should still be a small increase. And with an H2, anything is better than nothing. As for the H3, I've always wondered what it could do with a 5.3L, as previously and even now it's still a case of revving the 5-cyl's guts out, which doesn't help any mpg matter, so we'll see what the DOD 5.3L does. It's still not that astounding with mileage in a lot of the GMT-900's so far, but maybe with a different trans and the different vehicle dynamics, it will be here, at least again marginally like the H2. If not, power will at least get a strong boost.

Very likely better, just as people with 6.2L/6-spd Denalis and Escalades are consistently and/or more frequently and easily getting better MPG numbers than people with either 2wd or 4wd 5.3L/4-spd and 6.0L/4-spd other GMT-900's. SO, I think, a great move. It seems like they're best truck powertrain combo right now, and the H2 certainly will benefit from it.

I still love everything about the 300, and even more so, the past 2 years of auto shows I have come to the conclusion BOTH times that it was my favorite vehicle on a basis of style, price, comfort, and just "gotta have it". But, that's to me, and I completely understand people thinking otherwise, just as I can't stand other vehicles people love. To keep it going, it could definitely use smaller updates on the front and rear, not so much to wreck what made it so popular, but just little nips and tucks to keep it fresh--looks like they did just that. And beyond that, not that I've ever thought it was at all bad, but some smaller upgrades to certain interior materials and also to some basic design lines and such (like outside), just to freshen it up, and all is good. I really don't expect much, and probably not enough that even a lot of people will notice the difference, but that's not all bad. Just refresh what's doing well, and go from there.

Well, we'll see, especially when the 3.8L is done...the 3.6L is really the only logical choice, along with a 6-speed. From that then, should also be a new 6-speed mated to the Northstar which could use it the MOST, to properly apply the extra power and natural reviness of the engine.

Haha, I would let you know on that. Usually I get the dirty thoughts once every couple of months...but I'll leave that for another discussion :AH-HA_wink:

Yep, and actually, it's turning out to be another big selling point, especially since they really DO get those numbers. Somehow, GM just hit it out of the park with the Lambdas, in more ways than just about any other of their recent vehicles.