Lutz: SAAB is here to stay

[RJB]

I like Saab's, but a lot of people were ticked off when GM bought them, citing that they were going to ruin the brand. They did help it in some ways and ruined them in others. Most recently I have read articles about how crappy the handling/steering is on Saab's still, and that the dreaded torque steer monster still lurks around. AWD may help this but that is just a bandaid I think. I guess keeping Saab could be a question again of too many brands under the GM umbrella, because you can only spread the money around to every brand so much, and this has shown up in Saab more and more.

Edited August 8, 2007 by RJB

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

Oldsmobile had some appealing cars.

This is agreed upon and true. I own two of them at this moment.

[enzl]

For as long as the impression that Saab is an 'upscale' brand lasts, GM will keep it.

It's not it's US presence, but its international scope that appeals to GM now. With Opel/Vauxhall being squeezed as a mid-market brand in Europe (ironically, partially by Chevy), Saab is 'needed' to keep BMW, Volvo et al. intenders in the GM fold.

I predict that the latest cycle of products will be GM's last attempt to pump real life into Saab---then it'll be dumped if the fixes don't work.

Saab is an interesting case study in mismanaged product and expectations...My dad owned an '86 900 and loved the car...I just think that Saab missed the boat as a practical, sporty maker, rather than a true euro-sport company.

Missing the SUV/CUV crazes when your signature products used to be hatches that were foul-weather beasts is a deep irony that haunts this marque.

[Camino LS6]

Write down this date!

I agree with enzl.

[Brougham-Holiday]

I agree with 98, when the made the announcement of the end of Olds on TV, I think it was Rick Wagner who said " Oldsmobile was a jewel in the GM crown". If anyone has the video of the announcement please post it.

[ZL-1]

It's not it's US presence, but its international scope that appeals to GM now. With Opel/Vauxhall being squeezed as a mid-market brand in Europe (ironically, partially by Chevy), Saab is 'needed' to keep BMW, Volvo et al. intenders in the GM fold.

Saab is an interesting case study in mismanaged product and expectations...My dad owned an '86 900 and loved the car...I just think that Saab missed the boat as a practical, sporty maker, rather than a true euro-sport company.

Missing the SUV/CUV crazes when your signature products used to be hatches that were foul-weather beasts is a deep irony that haunts this marque.

QFT x2

Let's see what GM has in store for my beloved Swede

Edited August 8, 2007 by ZL-1

[enzl]

Write down this date!

I agree with enzl.

Duly noted. :AH-HA_wink:

Here's CAR magazine's take on the near term plans for Saab...sounds interesting....

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/secret_new_ca...=933&page=1

Edited August 8, 2007 by enzl

[balthazar]

>>"I like Saab's, but a lot of people were ticked off when GM bought them, citing that they were going to ruin the brand."<<

A lot of other people were ticked off, citing the diverted funding was going to ruin at least some aspects of the core divisions.

[Flybrian]

SAAB has missed the mark countless times. And keep in mind the kind of people who buy SAABs will refuse to buy a SAAB if it doesn't have 1980s SAAB gadgets like a panel dimmer, flimsy cupholder, or a keypad radio.

[AeroMan]

the kind of people who buy SAABs will refuse to buy a SAAB if it doesn't have 1980s SAAB gadgets like a panel dimmer, flimsy cupholder, or a keypad radio.

First of all the cupholder isn't flimsy in a 9-5 only the 9-3 (which I own). Secondly, when SAAB comes out w/ a car that doesn't have generic GM parts that are visible (black tie radio in the 9-3) (love the sound of it but just think they should have a brand specific interface) I will be all over them.

Right now GM has Caddy, Hummer, and SAAB for upscale brands and each one offers a different perspective on motoring to consumers while still keeping them in the fold of GM.

[Z-06]

Right now GM has Caddy, Hummer, and SAAB for upscale brands and each one offers a different perspective on motoring to consumers while still keeping them in the fold of GM.

If what you say is true then Saab is more like an Acura/Volvo fighter. Because the day it begins to compete with BMW it becomes redundant. Also even with this status the line between it and Buick and Cadillac are thin. May be GM wants people to perceive Saab as a Buidillac.

[drew770]

Saab is less redundant as a brand than both Buick and Pontiac, GM just hasn't managed it properly yet.

Finally someone is making sense!!!

What is with this walk down memory lane?

The market has moved beyond Buick and to some degree Pontiac. Everyone wants GM to just put money into Buick and it will be okay. Well, money is in short supply and whatever money GM has needs to go to the Core Brands!!!!

Chevy and Caddy are the core brands so the bulk of resources should go to them.

[David]

QUOTE(Flybrian @ Aug 7 2007, 10:46 PM)

Oldsmobile had some appealing cars.

This is agreed upon and true. I own two of them at this moment.

I disagree with you both, Oldsmobile has not had any worthy car in the last 1o years of it's life.

In reality, There are still too many brands in the market.

My vision of GM in the US.

Chevy

Fold Pontiac into Buick to fill the mid level market

Saturn as the Asian fighter

Hummer for off road luxury

Cadillac as king.

SAAB I see no use for, keep it in Europe or kill it off.

[makfu]

Maybe, maybe not. All I know is that I'd consider buying a Buick or Pontiac. Saab ranks below most Japanese brands for me.

The 9-3 is a vastly better car than Pontiac's epsilon effort and what, besides the Enclave, does Buick have other than tired old W and G cars?

Also, looking at your list of past, current and future cars, I don't think you are Saab's target market or would even understand the appeal that Saab has.

BTW, why did you buy a Dodge Intrepid?

-Mak

08 CTS 6-speed on order

[Sixty8panther]

I'd throw SAAB to the wolves in a heartbeat before I killed Olds.

[regfootball]

Write down this date!

I agree with enzl.

yeah, i do as well on that post. yikes

[regfootball]

In a nutshell, this means that while volume brands must be content with a MacPherson front axle and a four-link rear suspension, Saab gets a double-wishbone set-up all-round. Steel springs are standard on the 9-3, but the 9-5 and 9-4X can alternatively be had with a brand-new air suspension. Another important option is all-wheel drive; the advanced all-paw layout uses two electronically controlled diffs and an active torque split set-up.

[Robert Hall]

QUOTE(Flybrian @ Aug 7 2007, 10:46 PM)

Oldsmobile had some appealing cars.

I disagree with you both, Oldsmobile has not had any worthy car in the last 1o years of it's life.

I thought the Aurora (both generations) was quite competent and a very modern (and nicely styled) car for it's time... and the Intrigue was the nicest of the '90s W-bodies, IMHO..

Edited August 9, 2007 by moltar

[Robert Hall]

Saab is an interesting brand..one thing missing from their current line are the hatchbacks, which were one of their strongest points in the pre-GM era, IMHO. Saab could be potentially be marketed to the entry-premium market, against Acura, Volvo and the lower end Audis, i.e. brands where FWD and AWD are widely accepted.

[bcs296]

LET'S NOT FORGET ONE THING.

Toyota is selling as many cars as GM with TWO (2.5 if you include Scion) brands. GM doesn't have the cash to be spending on redundant brands that don't sell. If the time comes, Saab will probably be discarded one way or another.

I, too, think that the money would be better spent on GM's compact and midsize cars.

[Robert Hall]

LET'S NOT FORGET ONE THING.

Toyota is selling as many cars as GM with TWO (2.5 if you include Scion) brands. GM doesn't have the cash to be spending on redundant brands that don't sell. If the time comes, Saab will probably be discarded one way or another.

I, too, think that the money would be better spent on GM's compact and midsize cars.

Speaking of the brands, does anyone have a quick rundown of CY 2006 GM US sales numbers, broken down by brand? I'm curious where Buick, Pontiac, Saab fall relative to Saturn, etc...

Edited August 9, 2007 by moltar

[Sixty8panther]

I agree with the peole who are saying that SAAB has

managed to complately alienated its core customer

while managing to find very few to replace them with

anmd therefore it seems as if SAAB was in a position

where they are now up trying to go upstream w/out

a paddle, I'd scuttle that brand along with the Saturn

name, rename Saturns Oldsmobiles & Buick-Opels!

[Robert Hall]

I'd scuttle that brand along with the Saturn

name, rename Saturns Oldsmobiles & Buick-Opels!

I think Saturn is actually on a good path currently... I don't think ressurecting a dead brand name would help. I would keep the Buick brand, but get it some new, modern cars ASAP..not sure what to do about Saab.

[AxelTheRed]

The 9-3 is a vastly better car than Pontiac's epsilon effort and what, besides the Enclave, does Buick have other than tired old W and G cars?

Also, looking at your list of past, current and future cars, I don't think you are Saab's target market or would even understand the appeal that Saab has.

BTW, why did you buy a Dodge Intrepid?

-Mak

08 CTS 6-speed on order

The 9-3 is an uninteresting car. Regardless of the old platforms Buick is riding on, their cars still hold more appeal to me, as do Pontiacs.

As far as Saab's "appeal" goes: they have no appeal or tarket market. They abandoned the quirky Swedish car image to become a half-assed luxury brand but only succeeded in becoming another bland, cookie-cutter nameplate roaming the roads.

And my Intrepid...I like the brand, I like the car and it was in my price range. Just because I'm a member of a GM fansite doesn't mean that I'm going to exclusively buy their products.

[makfu]

The 9-3 is an uninteresting car. Regardless of the old platforms Buick is riding on, their cars still hold more appeal to me, as do Pontiacs.

As far as Saab's "appeal" goes: they have no appeal or tarket market. They abandoned the quirky Swedish car image to become a half-assed luxury brand but only succeeded in becoming another bland, cookie-cutter nameplate roaming the roads.

And my Intrepid...I like the brand, I like the car and it was in my price range. Just because I'm a member of a GM fansite doesn't mean that I'm going to exclusively buy their products.

Have you driven a late model 9-3? Just in chassis tuning alone the 9-3 is worlds better (along with its Opel/Saturn brethren) than the G6's gut jiggling nonsense. I won't even get into drivetrain, interior, etc. The 9-3 is actually a very good car.

As for cookie-cutter, can you get much blander than <insert Buick/Pontiac W-car nameplate>? Seriously, Saab might be a little too opelized (and the 9-7 is a travesty), but (US) Buick and Pontiac is just a sea of rental grade cars. Granted, the new G8 looks fantastic and hopefully Buick will get the terrific Holden Statesman/Caprice based Park Avenue that China has, but until then, I can't imagine plunking down money for anything other than an Enclave.

My question about your Intrepid revolved around my interest in what attracted you to the car. I am certainly no GM (or domestic) loyalist (I drive both GM and BMW products right now). Not that I am implying that the Intrepid is a bad car, I just could never imagine wanting such a car (a Charger absolutely). Then again, the LH cars, W cars and G cars are all large front-drivers, so maybe it’s that type of car you like (I will say I had a 95 Aurora and thought it was a great car despite crummy large car FWD handling characteristics).

-Mak