Croc

Fixed.

I wasn't being facetious. I'm against closing Pontiac.

Pontiac still posts impressive youth aspiration demographics. No other division comes close.

You know it, I know it, the rest of C&G knows it. gm4life I believe recently bought into the marketing kool aid and is trying to justify his purchase. That said, consumers like him justify the argument that Pontiac buyers won't just go to Chevrolet.

Why do you insist on clones for Pontiac? G5 must be FWD for sales? What sales? It's 99% identical to the Cobalt (from a consumer perspective)! The G6 also doesn't offer anything any other Epsilon can't. And it's sales are heavily fleeted. Forget FWD. Pontiac has no future with a lineup of FWD. And the Torrent is an Equinox with a sports "appearance" trim--i.e. not functional add-ons for "sporty" look. There is nothing "sporty" about the Torrent that does not exist on the Equinox.

I like the Intrigue (LX5 only, though), and the '97 Grand Prix was the best of the bunch overall...especially in coupe form. As for G...well I love my Aurora, though some people tell me it's actually H? So confused, but whatever...those two were extremely similar. Again, LX5 for the Aurora, as the 3.5 got the bigger gas tank, almost equal performance, and better mileage. Only advantage the 4.0 had was the one-piece aluminum rear decklid (2001-2002 only) since the plastic insert on the 3.5 and 2003 4.0 are prone to water leakage. Both trims are near-perfect cars, though. More recent iterations of the respective platforms? Yuck. Lucerne is OK, but the Aurora interior (2nd gen) is much better from a design and ergonomic standpoint.

But this is the inherent problem. Products cannot become homogenized. This alleged need for marketing is exactly what compromised GM in the 80s and 90s, with lookalike, priced-alike products differentiated only by marketing. "Brand management" was and is a failure. "It's all about the product, stupid."

Copy/paste the link, but delete whatever comes after the .jpg Usually this will be something like a size specification with = sign and other gibberish.

Increase the profit margins. If GM is having cash flow problems, that means not enough profit. Raise the stickers to what they should be (about $3-5k more for every Pontiac model) and there you go. GM is always trying to be a "value leader" and the only way to be a profitable value leader is through volume. GM, and the NA market as a whole, will not get back to that volume business of yesteryear soon, if ever. Too much competition and choice exists for one or two models to sell 1,000,000 vehicles per year. If GM started making their vehicles with a slightly more premium mindset and increased margins accordingly, not only would they have a more aspirational (read: desired) product, but the profits would be up overall. Truthfully, I'm at a loss of what exactly is "wrong" with Pontiac to the point it should be shut down. Pontiac has some great designs, and the only aspects of the vehicles that are lacking are the interiors. If the G6 received an interior update that is very similar to that of the new Malibu, I think sales would take off. You have a complete lineup, stylish design, and a gimmick: hard top convertible. The G6 should be selling a lot more than it is, and the only real detriment to its execution is the same interior (essentially) that plagued the 2003 Malibu. Look what happened to Malibu sales/demand for 2008. That wasn't due to the exterior update, as both were pretty inoffensive. The G6 at least already has a great exterior that's aged well. Give it a new interior and watch sales take off. Same thing happened to the SRX in 2007.

You're missing the point of what Griff is saying. Frankly, I agree with him: GM can cut divisions all it wants, but until it starts pricing itself as more than a bargain-basement manufacturer, it will lack the profit margins across the board to support all of its divisions. In other words, killing Pontiac does not fix what's wrong with GM, and soon another division will be on the chopping block too. For crying out loud, it's been just 4 years since Oldsmobile went away! Clearly that went well... And what about those damn Canadians? They certainly seem to have an arrowhead fetish.

Meh, whatever. The biggest question is what about Canada. For some strange reason, they adore Pontiac.

I just googled "angry toddler" and got a blog reporting on an art exhibit called "End Times" featuring photos of toddlers right after their lollipop was taken away. No joke.

They don't have booths...this place is really old school; communal tables:

Well, off the top of my head, I'd guess the "hay" smell is actually the layer of sawdust that covers the floor. This place hasn't changed one bit since Aliso St. was demolished for the 101 and Phillipe's moved to Alameda. Their coffee is still 9 cents a cup. Funny, I didn't see NOS in there...

And their spicey mustard is phenomenal. It's hotter than wasabi!

Phillipe's, originally owned by a Frenchman in what was once the French District of Los Angeles (replaced by the 101 freeway), made a sandwich where the baguette was dipped in the au jus from the meat. Because the baguette is "dipped" in the jus, and Phillipe was French, this type of sandwich became known as a "French dip." Commonly in America, you'll have the au jus on the side, and you're served the sandwich dry to dip it in the jus yourself. Both are French dips, but the latter isn't the authentic way.

Haha...blu, if you ever go to LA you have to eat at Phillipe's. They make the best French dip sandwiches, and they should--they invented the French dip!

Mmmmmm...I had a fantastic dinner tonight: Lamb double-dip. Best ever.

I'll take em both!

Why not the G5 coupe? Infinitely more attractive vehicle...plus it's a coupe!

It'll certainly allow for greater commonality between autos across the world. Very few countries drive on the left side.

It's not that I'm looking for a fight or anything, but I'm a very non-partisan car enthusiast, and I seriously resent being personally attacked and lumped in with Japanese-hating, American-centric posters on this board because I am clearly not one of them. And this is the last of what I am going to say on the matter. Last time I checked, this thread was supposed to be about GM's 9B Euro investment. Ocn: Yes, Oingo Boingo. He was in it when they started, and worked on "Dead Man's Party," but left to get married and begin his professional music scoring career around the time they actually got famous. He's actually scored quite a few well-known movies and is a member of The Academy. It's pretty cool, he gets all the DVDs of the movies nominated for Oscars.

No, not quite forever...but almost. Kidding. I can't really dislike you since you know you aren't from Boston.

I have no idea when I joined. I think it was early 2002, but part of me thinks it may have been late 2001. I forget when the site was initially started, but I joined early on my sophomore year of high school, so that's somewhere in the 2001-2002 academic year. Waaaaaaaaay back on Snitz...