gmcbob

But will there be a NG Sigma II?

Sigma cancelled? I'm assuming you just mean the STS (not the latest and greatest 2008 CTS on Sigma II)?

If GM kills the Sigma platform and makes Caddy fwd (again) - then it's completely over for them. I have a feeling that that isn't going to happen, but with everyone out there in GM Auto Enthusiast Land totally freaking out lately, I'm starting to freak out myself! The CTS is just too freaking cool to replace with the likes of something like a LaCrosse.

What is ultimately going to happen to the Sigma, Kappa and Alpha platforms? Aren't the 2 existing ones pretty respectable and also capable of spawning good mileage vehicles? I'd buy a high performance Camaro based on a slightly smaller rear drive platform - I think it would actually be better in some ways. thoughts? Does anyone actually know?

PCS - You so crazy! Actually guys - I think there's a little bit of PCS screwing with everyone on this board because he's got a weird sense of humor. But who knows? GM does do some bone headed things periodically, like killing cars that people actually wanted (like the old F-Bodies, making Caddy fwd $h! boxes from the 80s through the 90s, etc, etc). I'm pretty sure the G8 and Camaro are still very much alive, and I'm pretty psyched about both of those cars. Zeta sounds like a great chassis, and if GM kills it and Pontiac in the process, then I'm basically through with wanting to see them come back to their 60s glory days. My (late) Dad worked there (Buick Motor Division - before Buick was a "brand"), and I can remember him bringing home some pretty fly company cars back in the day (big old tanks - rear drive Electras, Park Avenues, LeSabres, etc, etc). I'm sure he'd be proud of a "real" Buick Park Avenue (like the one in China of all places). One case I could see for GM not selling rwd. cars in the US could be simply because they want people to get used to them seeing the company as one that competes with Toyota and Nissan on gas mileage. Having 400 hp rear drive Pontiac's really doesn't do that, but then again, clever marketing of their good gas mileage cars should take care of that problem. From what I can see, its a crazy, competitive, difficult market nowadays, and I'm pretty sure it's hard to get everyone at GM on the same page as far as how they want to deal with the competition and the new gas mileage standards in NA. Unfortunately for them, they brought a lot of those problems on themselves, but there's ways they can get out of the mess they got themselves into. Killing good rear drive platforms isn't one of them, but hey, there's still Ford and Chrysler if GM kills their affordable rear drive cars in the US as far as I'm concerned. Hopefully the Camaro stays around for a few years, because that is more than likely going to be my next car. On the topic at hand - I think the Ute is certainly cool, but I have this feeling that it won't sell too terribly well in the US with the way it's currently styled. It needs to have more masculine lines, especially the area that actually separates the car portion from the "truck" portion - it's very odd looking I think. If they bring it to market as a GMC and give it some true GMC styling (square off the rear window area a little bit), it would probably sell okay. Put a 400 hp LS3 in it - and I may have to check it out while I'm looking at the Camaro.

What exactly does the "Tick-Tock" mean anyway?

I think you've hit the nail on the head with that one. In the article the GM power train guy mentions how GM has a bunch of V8s they can use if the market warrants having a V8 (which the market does I think, especially if someone is dropping $50k on an STS sized car), and then she sums up the article by writing "hot V6 instead of hot V8". It makes little sense. But, keep in mind a lot of these online auto publications are going for the fast read and the quick interpretation without a lot of real thought about what there saying - come to think of it, most media outlets operate that way - not just with cars, but with a whole host of various topics. Hmmm...the media twisting facts and making things up? Wow, pretty crazy idea..hmmmm.

I've been following this with a lot of interest, as I'm sort of freaking out with the rest of you crazy clowns This is a good read though, and I think some can breathe a sigh of relief that Caddy will more than likely still have V8s in their portfolio. I'm wondering if they're planning on using a LWB version of one of the Zeta cars for the next large Caddy (to replace the STS and DTS) - hell, that would make sense to me. I think it would also be sweet with a 400 hp version of one of the LS engines. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=124170

LOKI A little off topic - but is that you're 455 Buick GS? That thing is absolutely AWESOME! One of my favorite GM muscle cars ever! I'd love to drive one. Great color too. As far as the news about the new Cadillac V8, I think everyone is prematurely freaking out - a lot can change in 2 years. As long as GM doesn't go too crazy and cancel the rear drive Camaro and G8, I won't lose too much sleep.

All this conversation about FWD vs. RWD is pretty interesting. Considering the recent CAFE hoopla and "Maximum Bob" asking everyone and his Mother about "how do we get 35mpg out of cars using today's technology", etc, etc, etc, I wonder how long the Camaro, the G8 and all the other cool RWD cars that GM has planned will actually be for sale? Maybe just 3 or 4 years before they're gone? I certainly hope not, but I'm wondering if GM will cancel them as a knee jerk reaction to the new mpg standards? Lets face it, GM management has proven to make some pretty bone headed moves over the years (like abandoning a lot of potential customers by not making the Camaro and offering more rear drive cars), and I could easily see them canceling every rear drive platform they have (cars) instead of offering diesels, or Two Modeode Hybrids, or anything innovative to just to keep them on the roads. Thoughts, comments, concerns?? BTW, I think Lutz and Co. should know that I did indeed get 30.8 mpg in my LS1 powered 1998 Z28 once on a highway trip between Houston and Dallas - on 87 octane gas no less! That was 10 years ago, in a 305 hp (hehehe, yeah right) bone stock Camaro. If that was possible then, with no DOD technology, then I know they can get at least that on the highway with the upcoming Camaro. My city gas mileage was about 18 or 20, but I always got high 20s and up to 30 on the highway (if I "behaved"). :AH-HA_wink:

I've been thinking about replacing my old 98 Jimmy lately (as I do about every other month or so, hehehe) and what I want runs the gamut from a new Mustang GT, to a late model G35 or wait out and see what the Camaro is like, which I guess I"m subconsciously doing I guess by not buying anything (I owned a 98 Z28 and I actually really miss it). I also owned 2 late model Sierras once upon a time (an 01 2wd and an 04 Z71, both of which I bought when I owned a business)...Every once in a while I get a hankering to get another full size truck again, but something thats unusual and fun. Anywho...long story short, I was thinking it would be kind of cool to have a hot rod truck as my daily driver - think 2wd regular cab V8 truck - and as I was building and researching online I noticed something extremely disappointing about the GM trucks; you can't get the 375 horse 6.0L Vortec Max engine in the regular cab! Toyota offers the 5.7L in their regular cab, I think GM should offer that motor (or better yet, the new 6.2L) in their regular cab. What gives?

I don't know guys - even if GM is selling 25% to fleets, it's still selling quite a few cars to regular retail customers, with some good gains in key areas. And even if the company is still selling a lot of cars and trucks to fleets, it gets the cars out on the streets, and gets the nameplates out in front of potential customers. Don't fret guys (and girls) - GM will be just fine.

Okay, slightly off topic, and maybe slightly inappropriate - but that chick in the black dress in that one picture standing towards the front of the car - is hot! hahahahahahaha! The Volt is sweet - what a cool idea. Hopefully GM and their suppliers can work out some of the kinks with the batteries.

I didn't see my post going in this direction. hehehe Actually, I really don't care where the LS is built, it's an awesome engine. If you look up on Wikipedia, you'll find that they're bulit in Canada, the US and Mexico. You know, the "North American Union". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_american_union

I like the article, but I don't like the fact that they loved to mention that the LS7 is built in Mexico. Lets rub it in that GM (which is "supposed" to be more American than Toyota) builds things in Mexico. But then I got to thinking, "is the LS series V8 really built there???". So, was the LS1 in my 1998 Camaro Z28 built in Mexico? That would be sort of disappointing.

Yeah, but if you look at what vehicles were down at Ford, it was all the older "duds" like the old Taurus, some of the Volvos, Ranger, Crown Vic, etc...the new products like the Fusion and Edge are actually improving in sales every month. The problem is, Ford needs like, a $h! load more new products. They need a Chrysler 300 type vehicle, like the upcoming G8 and they need a car based off the new Mazda 2 that's coming out. Although the Silverado and Tundra (argh!) have better V8s, I still like the F150 a lot for a big truck. I like Ford - although I follow GM more. Hopefully they'll stabilize. Honestly, I keep thinking I may end up with a Mustang GT in my driveway next year, but I'm sort of holding out to see how good the Z28 is going to be.

Nice truck man! It seems like in Houston (I've only been to one or two dealers I'll admit), they don't stock 6.0L on the lot unless its fully loaded with leather and everything. I think dealers need to stock more mid range equipped (regular dash, cloth seats, ext. cab, regular cab, etc...) with the big engine.

In the parking lot at my work (near airport in Houston), I saw a bright red, brand new Impala SS rental. I knew it was a rental because of the bar codes on the back windows. I didn't realize GM was selling the V8 W bodies to the rental car companies. I also saw a GXP Grand Prix with the V8 as a rental too not to long ago. Pretty cool actually. I wonder if the average Joe renting one of those is completely shocked when the press the gas down and realize (or maybe not realize) that they're driving a car that can easily run with a $40,000 IS350?

I've actually been wasting my time, okay, maybe not totally wasting my time, just right now trying to determine whether GM was going to go ahead and put the 3.6L / 6 spd. automatic combo that's in their Aura in the Lucerne to compete with the Avalon. But it looks like they haven't, and I think this post is probably why. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it has something to do with satisfying a prior commitment to some sort of UAW nonsense. Trying to fend off Toyota must be the most frustrating job for GM's management right now!

The Impala sales going up really shock me honestly. I like the car, and it seems to be holding its own in the marketplace. Hopefully when they convert it back to rear wheel drive, it won't become too expensive. IMO, it looks a lot nicer than the new Camry. Hopefully Chevy has the same luck with the upcoming Malibu. I can explain the Aura's problem: brand perception and general lack of knowledge by consumers in the marketplace. Like what's his name said in Forbes (the old guy?), the car has "no tail". In other words, people in the market for $28,000 cars like the Camry and Accord don't realize the Aura exists. If they did, the Aura would probably be selling twice as good as it does now. I test drove one, and it was nice (fast as hell too). Being the brand manager or whatever they're called these days of Saturn would be a tough job. Great products that consumers really don't know about or would consider. It's funny, I had to drive up to The Woodlands (upper middle class suburb of Houston) yesterday and I saw like 4 or 5 Saturn Skys and Pontiac Solstices with a completely different mix of people driving them. One of them I believe may have been a Sky Redline. I was thinking (with the Pontiac), how cool would that car be if it were stretched about a foot, wheel base stretched the same length, and given a roofline similar to a 350Z and had the 300 hp 3.6 L V6 from the new CTS? hmmm?

I"m psyched about the new GM cars. I just hope they don't forget the bottom end of the market too. They need some super kick butt tiny gas mileage cars to ensure they meet whatever new CAFE regs that come out. Hopefully the bring the Corsa over here pronto. But enough about that - bring on the HP too. I'm thinking in a couple of years I just may be ready to bite the bullet and drop some coin on one of these new rwd GM cars. (Zeta or Sigma)

Let's see a Camaro with the optional new two mode hybrid drive train. That would be pretty awesome, a 6.0L Two Mode Hybrid V8 Camaro. If it hauled butt, that would probably make it officially the coolest car in the whole Chevy (not to mention perhaps the entire GM) lineup.

Toyota's Gain a Plus for U.S. Automaking: Doron Levin (Update1) By Doron Levin April 26 (Bloomberg) -- The report that Toyota Motor Corp., Japan's biggest automaker, surpassed No. 1 General Motors Corp. in worldwide sales during the first quarter shouldn't be viewed as evidence of U.S. industrial decline. U.S. automaking arguably has never been stronger. That's not to say General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Corp. aren't struggling and won't soon, if ever, dominate the industry as they once did. For long-term owners of the common stocks and bonds of the U.S.-based automakers, not to mention for their workers and for the communities in which they are located, the relative loss of dominance has been immense. Detroit and the state of Michigan are ground-zero in terms of fallout from the decline of the domestic automakers. The tax base is falling, municipal deficits are soaring and the United Auto Workers union is looking terminally ill. But for the broader U.S. economy, the rise of non-U.S. automakers -- especially the new No. 1 -- has been, on balance, a positive. From 1986 to 2006, vehicle production in the U.S. by non-Detroit automakers grew to 3.37 million from 426,000, while imports by those automakers to the U.S. have fallen to 2.55 million from 3.47 million, according to the Association of International Automobile Manufacturers (AIAM), a trade group. U.S. production by Detroit makers fell 3.7 million during the same period. GM, Ford and Chrysler employed 377,000 U.S. workers at the end of last year, compared with 95,000 for Toyota, Honda Motor Co. and other non-U.S. automakers, according to the Automotive Policy Trade Council, a trade group. Sign of Bloat Though comparisons are rough, the numbers imply that last year the U.S. automakers needed almost four times as many workers to build twice as many (6.84 million) vehicles as the foreign companies operating in the U.S. The disparity hints at one of Detroit's ailments: bloat. Of all the non-U.S. automakers, Toyota has most famously exemplified an efficient, disciplined approach to manufacturing, one that is studied and applied broadly by U.S. hospitals, libraries, automakers and businesses of all types. ``We've learned about using common processes and methods from Toyota,'' said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Michigan. ``Everywhere their DNA is the same. GM has struggled with commonality, though it's been working on the concept since the early 1990s.'' Anand Sharma, chief executive officer of TBM Consulting in Durham, North Carolina, said 60 percent of the clients he teaches about the Toyota Production System are non-automotive. U.S. businesses ``had become very complacent,'' he says. ``Toyota provides improvement right away.'' Can't Catch Up GM, Ford and Chrysler all acknowledge, however ruefully, the positive impact that Toyota and others have had on vehicle quality and customer satisfaction. But Detroit hasn't been able to catch its rivals by learning their tricks and beating them at their own game. Individually and through the Automotive Policy Trade Council, Detroit automakers instead complain that Japan manipulates its currency, keeping the value artificially low against the dollar to make imports cheaper for U.S. buyers. In luxury sedans alone, the weak yen results in an $8,280 cost subsidy for cars such as Toyota's Lexus LS460. Perhaps. It's hard to imagine the U.S. will pressure its most-important ally in the Far East to revalue its currency just to make life easier for Detroit's automakers. Foreign automakers are creating jobs, investing in new plants and winning friends in Congress. Small-Town Boon As more and more plants owned by foreign automakers have opened in the U.S., the economic benefits are being felt in smaller, once-rural communities, especially in the South, like Canton, Mississippi (Nissan Motor Co.); Greer, South Carolina (Bayerische Motoren Werke AG); West Point, Georgia, (Kia Motors Corp.); and Montgomery, Alabama (Hyundai Motor Co.) Toyota in February said it will build its next assembly plant in Tupelo, Mississippi, best known as the birthplace of Elvis Presley. ``These towns have good skilled work forces and the people value the jobs,'' said Mike Stanton, who heads the AIAM. The UAW has failed in every effort to organize U.S. workers at the foreign-owned auto plants, which has helped keep labor costs from ballooning as they have in Detroit. In addition to passing GM in unit sales on a worldwide basis, Toyota is poised to steam past Ford in the U.S. to become No. 2. After that, the big milestone for Toyota will be to grab the No. 1 spot in the U.S. Toyota now has a bit less than 16 percent of the U.S. market, GM a bit less than 23 percent. If current trends continue, Toyota could be No. 1 in the U.S. within five years. U.S. automaking has some pockets of trouble -- as an industry, it's still a powerhouse. (Doron Levin is a Bloomberg News columnist. The opinions expressed are his own.) http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=aiPOzPmp_a7U This column bugged me, so I wrote him an email about it. It would be interesting to hear GM fan's thoughts.

I sense from a lot of the articles I saw in Business Week/ AP / Reuters, etc, that the Japanese analysts working for some of the large investment banks were extremely arrogant about how Toyota has a great reputation and GM doesn't. The old "GM has a reputation for poor quality and it's only getting weaker/worse" argument. That *REALLY* bugs me for some reason. Makes me hope that Toyota totally flops with their new Tundra. It does seem true that that US media likes to play on that too. But that's what sells I guess - extreme articles that play into trendy thinking. Oh well. GM doesn't play it right though. I don't think their marketing is aggressive enough here in the US. They need to talk about how many models they have that are built here, etc, before people begin to really think that GM outsources everything. And believe me, a lot of people will, especially if they read a lot of the press that tends to spin the news in Toyota's favor. I notice they tend to talk about Toyota opening factories in North America, and GM closing them, but they never follow up by saying that GM still has 5 times as many factories in North America, even after the closing. The problem is - GM never says that either! They really need to stress that - big time.

Is anyone sure what is going to happen to the Sigma platform now that Lutz has said future rwd models are "on hold"? It doesn't appear that the CTS is going to be stopped or canceled for 2008, but does this ultimately mean that the entire Caddy lineup will be going back to fwd? If that's the case, then you can kiss Caddy goodbye - it was RWD vehicles like the CTS, SRX and 2005 and up STS that has actually made them viable luxury/performance cars again. I can see keeping the Impala fwd and just having the Camaro and the G8 as your "mainstream" rwd models, but if GM killed the Caddy Sigma platform, that would be absolutely INSANE! And I mean insane in the worst way.