gmcbob

After work yesterday (I love getting out of work at noon on Fridays!) I decided to kill an hour and check out the Astra. Other than a few quirky annoyances (no armrest bugs me) I actually liked the car. I went on a pretty long test drive with the guy, and I came off thinking that it really wasn't a bad ride for an economy car. So last night I met two friends for a drink (married couple) and brought the Astra brochure with me into the bar- their reaction to the car was kind of shocking. The first shock was "Saturn makes this car??" and the other was , "wow, that actually looks like a cool car". My point is this is a perfect example of how nobody knows about 80% of the cars that GM sells. It's amazing. These are two working professionals (they have a Yukon and an Altima, both of which are getting up there in age and they've both talked about replacing) and neither one of them had a clue as to what the Astra was. Everyone knows what a Volkswagen Golf or Rabbit or GTI is (in this demographic) - but not an Astra. This is one of the more economical cars in their line up, and nobody knows it even exists. How dumb is that? Incidentally, I'm a little surprised that I liked the Astra (I tested out a silver 5 door XR) as much as I did. I see it getting beat up pretty bad though out in cyberspace, but I still think it's the most compelling small car in the GM lineup here in the States (actually, the Cobalt SS Turbo looks pretty awesome, but I don't think I could see myself buying that). My only major gripes about the car are the lack of an armrest and XM radio from the factory, oh and iPod connector - but the dealer said they could install an AUX adapter for me - and it was a little too slow from a dead stop.

For the record - I'm psyched about Alpha. If there was a Buick "alpha" sedan, I think that would be awesome. But, knowing how GM operates these days - nobody outside of us on this board would even know it exists! They wouldn't advertise it!

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this PCS. GM does not advertise enough at all - and the advertisements they do have aren't very compelling. Honda has some great commercials that really give you a sense that if you buy one of their products, you're truly buying into a good company. I think GM could really market themselves A LOT better. I know that it's difficult to spread the ad dollars across multiple brands, but why not a compelling GM commercial that highlights technological, "green", style and value across the entire lineup here in the States? I say a good, 1 minute commercial that hits all the brands, essentially saying "Look - we're known for making great trucks and SUVs, but we also make great, fuel efficient cars that are fun to drive, etc, etc" - show the Saturn Astra and the Vue Hybrid driving down the road, show a new Malibu, show the new CTS with it's headlights on in a rainstorm going around an oval track - play inspiring, hip, smart ambient Moby sounding music - try to appeal to a high achieving, young demographic (something I always thought they weren't very clever at doing). It can be done - As far as balance goes, I'm truly hoping that GM continues to stay the path on Cadillac - and still decides that they need a decent rear drive flagship about the size of a 7 Series. Even at $5/gallon, there's still going to be a market for that, and Caddy still has the name to demand the big bucks if they build it right. I think right now with $4.00 gas and all of the doom and gloom about the economy, that GM (at least in NA) could start acting like my cat Spike when the doorbell rings and he panics - he doesn't know which way to run to get under the nearest piece of furniture - GM strikes me as being schizophrenic like that at times. I could see them panicking so bad that they start re-badging Corsas as Cadillacs and trying to pass them off as "sport sedans" just because they think everything should be small (like they did in the 80s). My point is - GM still needs the big cars, the fast cars and the trucks too, but just not in the volume they have now. Get the small, compelling 35 - 45 mpg cars out there (from GME) - advertise the hell out of them (cleverly) - give away mtn. bikes, I like that - but give Caddy the flagship it deserves as well as a real good competitor below the CTS - a rear drive 1 Series type with distinctive Caddy styling just might convince me to shell out $500 a month. Advertise smart. Keep the compelling products coming. But more so - get that advertising machine rolling and hitting on all 8 cylinders pronto (or all 4 cylinders I guess) :AH-HA_wink:

If GM came out with a new fuel efficient compact car that was every bit as awesome as the new CTS is in it's respective class, and was marketed correctly (read: really good advertising on TV) - I think that would really help - a lot. I don't think it would hurt if they even brought over the Corsa as a Saturn and perhaps a Chevy as well. Actually, I can't understand why the Corsa isn't here already - with TV spots on Thursday night during The Office. And billboards on the sides of tall buildings, and people walking up to you on the street with Corsa T Shirts giving away small matchbox models of Corsas with DVD's they can play at home of video of Corsa's driving around - commercials of really hot 20 year old girls driving Corsas airing during the most popular TV shows and during The Daily Show on Comedy Central - (are you getting my point - GM needs to tell the world that they build great fuel efficient cars and should actually sell them in America).

So what's going to happen PCS? I've been perousing all the usual suspect car blogs these days, and while I don't feel they offer a 100% definitive look at the general public and their real car buying habits, I'd say they at least give us somewhat of an idea of how the general populous feels about GM - and it's actually not very good. For the most part, your average American who is looking for a car, or thinks they know about cars, thinks GM sucks. I know sales of the smaller, fuel efficient cars have actually increased (thank God for GM), but how in the world is GM going to overcome this growing perception problem? It's your biggest problem - hands down! I can see it every day just driving down the road obviously, but I think only the die hards are the ones that still visit the GM showroom. GM is so low on the totem pole in people's minds, it's actually quite amazing. Blame it on GM, blame it on the media, blame it on Honda and Toyota, blame it on whoever, but whatever the case may be, I think GM's NUMERO UNO priority is changing that perception - and very fast. Product is king - and it's getting better - if not world class in some cases (CTS and Vette) - but you have to convince the guy who only has the Civic or the Corolla on his list to at least go and look at an Astra or a Cobalt - but how?

You're right - GM needs to really start knocking it out of the park on every single produce - CTS like attention to detail and style/performance on every single product. A Cobalt that is seriously just as tight and modern as a Civic, a real f*cking cool Buick that has an awesome, extremely elegant and sophisticated interior that is truly as solid and well made as the most expensive Lexus or Audi. It HAS to happen - many of GM's cars today are probably pretty trouble free, and very durable - but it needs to go way beyond that - we've been promised these things, and I think the CTS proves that it can be done, but we need to really see it - especially in their mainstream models (I would think a Buick Regal type vehicle of the 90s but every bit as refined inside, as say, a new Accord), could make Buick a contender. But the message would have to get out to the public to ensure them that it's true. That could be the hardest part.

I also think an Alpha based sedan could be sold as a Nova in the States - complete with the Turbo 4 that's in the Cobalt SS. But I think we have a better chance of seeing a human being launch a golf ball on Mars than we do that.

I'm heart broke too, but they know where the market is heading, and unfortunately, for fans of bigger, V8 Sedans, it's looking like you'll have to pony up to a $60,000 Caddy if you want something like that. Guys, from the looks of things, I think the US auto industry returning to the "glory days" of awesome RWD V8 sedans isn't going to come to us now, thanks to high oil prices and our Government. I'd be willing to bet that in a few short years, aside from Caddy, GM will only have the Camaro, maybe the G8, and the smaller Kappa platform to satiate our taste for rear drive. Hopefully, and I mean hopefully, that 1 Series small rear driver (Alpha) hasn't been put on the backburner, because I think if marketed right, it could be badged as a Saturn, Pontiac or Buick and sold as a really cool American alternative to say, a the aforementioned 1 Series, or the G35. In the meantime, I think we can all hope that GM can get it's proverbial sh*t together and come out with a really awesome new Cobalt and get the Volt launched with unbridled success post haste - because right now the focus is on fuel economy and price.

I agree man, well said. The Impala is not as good as the new Accord and Camry when it comes right down to it. The Camry and Accord look more modern and offer better drive trains - there's no way around arguing this fact. But I think this is why GM made the current Malibu the way it is - it competes well with the Camry and Accord. The problem with the Malibu is perception and the fact that Camry and Accord has had years to build traction and image. It's going to be very tough for Chevy to get their mojo back with this model alone unfortunately. I've said it many times on this board how here in Houston, I don't see nearly as many new GM cars as I do Toyota, Honda and Nissan cars. (I see TONS of GM SUV's and trucks though). However, for whatever reason, I see a lot of late model Impalas - and I actually see a lot of late model Impalas without the bar codes on them - so those are either company cars or retail - obviously it's tough to tell. I dunno - I actually think the Impala is kind of a nice looking car, but I can totally understand why an average Joe Consumer would choose a Toyota or Honda over it (even those who aren't just blindly going there because they think they're better because of neighbors or Consumer Reports). I sometimes wonder if GM actually realizes just how insane and good the competition is these days??? They need to stand on a typical street corner outside the Midwest for a few days and really pay attention to what consumers are driving here in the South and out West. They'd poop their drawers. Unfortunately for them, it's not 1968 anymore.

A couple of questions/ideas that seem appropriate for this post. Are they going to offer the diesel version of the CTS that I read about for Europe over here in the States? What do you guys think the possibility of a rear drive Zeta based Buick with the new 4.5L Diesel that's going in the trucks? (assuming they're still considering a RWD Buick for the States like the China Park Avenue). Or is that too outside the box for GM?

I'm picking up what everyone is putting down tonight. I dunno...I think Pontiac as a brand is just awesome - especially when you go back through time and think about the 1960s GTO's, the mid 70s TA's, the 1993 and later F-Body Pontiacs (the 98-02 WS6 Formulas in black were just out of f-ing control in both looks and just raw, in your face personality), but lets look at what's happening in the market now with an open mind, and with a true sense of complete and utter logic. I don't think GM has the resources to bring out WRX style, import performance fighters and badge them as Pontiacs (which I think would be a cool direction, if they could only figure out how to market that idea to Joe Public, WRX type enthusiasts). I'm sure GM management has thought about that (hell, if I thought of it, I'm sure someone else within GM has) - but I think GM is a numbers company - if they don't see themselves selling a lot of WRX type, out of the box performance vehicles through Pontiac, they probably just won't do it because they have shareholders (that are probably pretty pissed right now) to answer to. What really sucks about all of this of course, is that it's their own fault. Because they decided to take the easy high road for the last 15 years, they decided to solely focus on trucks - not realizing at all that they had so much history and (quite frankly) such incredibly cool brand character to really do some seriously cool things with every one of those brands - if they would have spent some more money during that time differentiating and growing those brands/images, I think they would have had more market share today. Basically, by letting their cars waste away, they screwed themselves out of the car business altogether, and let the Japanese and their two-brand only strategies completely take control (which was inevitable, considering GM gave them market share anyways, and two brands are a lot easier to manager probably). With that said however, I will buy a Chevy (as opposed to a B-P-GMC) if it's a really good car - which it really could be if GM puts some real effort behind it. The new Malibu is a good car - I love the looks of the new Camaro (and c'mon guys, wouldn't a smaller, bad ass light weight rwd. Camaro be super awesome with similar styling to the one that's coming out?) Imagine a 3100 lbs. rear drive, modern Sigma like suspension under it, be insane??? Think G37/350ZX with a small block GM LS engine or a DI GM V6? I'd be psyched. Lets turn our frowns about a potential Pontiac death upside down into the possibility of some really good Chevrolets. Seriously.

I'm 33, what Generation label do I fall under?? A small rear drive Caddy like this (if powered by the same 3.6 DI engine as the CTS but 500 lbs. lighter) would be a contender for my garage space. Price it a few grand less than the current G35 to get them moving off the lots faster.

I'm still holding out for a V8 Camaro for next year, but it's all about gas prices right now. I just don't know if I want something that's only going to average me 20 mpg all the time now. It has certainly taken the fun out of thinking about owning something cool. Small cars are the answer to GM's problems right now. I think they need to advertise the Astra more on TV, and get that Corsa over here too (I think the Corsa looks like an awesome small car) and get that thing up on billboards and TV commercials too. I'd consider the Astra with the turbo engine from the Cobalt (instead of a Camaro) if I thought that I could get consistently get high 20s (like 27 or 28) in mixed driving. This may not be the time nor place to think about this, but I'm still wondering if GM is going to move forward with a large rear drive flagship for Caddy based off of Zeta? If gas continues to go up, I wonder if they'll ax that plan because that platform couldn't be shared with Pontiac/Buick , etc./??? Whatever they do, I still hope they keep Sigma alive at Caddy - if not, then you can watch the 16k/month sales at Caddy turn into 8k a month in an instant (plus it would simply be embarrassing to not have a proper RWD American luxury car anymore).

Yeah, it's really amazing how many import cars vs. domestic cars I see here. It's almost as if the Big 3 don't even sell vehicles in the United States (outside of SUV's and trucks of course) when I drive around Houston - especially the real affluent neighborhoods. Granted, I do see a sprinkling of newer Big 3 cars, but compared to the Japanese, it's not even funny. I probably see 5 Avalons to every Lucerne, maybe 10. I see a Camry pretty much every time I take a breath. I see way more 3 Series and IS350's than I do CTS's. The one car I do see a lot of from GM though is the newer Impalas. I don't know why really. Perhaps because they're sold to so many different fleets? I don't know. I actually like the IMpala, and would personally choose it over a Camry because I think it's better looking. I get it though - I really do. So many Joe Consumers who don't follow the auto industry just want (what they think or perceive or was told) is good reliable transportation. The Camry does deliver on that - and let's face reality people, Honda and Toyota do build pretty solid cars, it's hard to argue that. It's that (finally) GM does too (after many years of just focusing on trucks) and they have to figure out a way to get people's asses in those seats. Cars are expensive - and I think before someone takes out a huge loan on a Malibu, they need to know that thing is going to give them a smile every time they get behind the wheel. I think for Joe Consumer, the Accord and Camry do it, and they do it pretty well, so the next time they go to buy, all they remember or think about is "well, I like my Toyota, I remember my Dad bitching about his 94 Bonneville all the time, yeah, f@#k it, I'll get another Toyota". or something like that. I will say that I'm seeing more and more new Ford products - like the Escape and the Fusion - which is actually kind of surprising. For some reason, I think Ford may have a better reputation than Chevy for their cars. My friend from Seattle just bought a new Escape - love it - didn't think he would get another Ford, but he did. And this guy fits a demographic that would probably not consider a Big 3 product normally (IT manager). Well, actually, a lot of my IT friends drive American. Who knows? I think we're all just freaking out right now because the economy is tanking. Let's see what happens later this year. All those Tahoe and Silverado drivers that are happy may just be convinced that a small GM car or SUV is the way to go the next time they buy (and gas is $4.50 a gallon).

You know, jogging around Memorial Park (in the heart of one of the more affluent parts of town) in Houston tonight, I was actually thinking about GM and what a lot of their problems are. I can't help but wonder - why in the world did they let so much of their business go to their competitors - for so many years - without doing anything about it? It's really quite insane - no matter what industry you follow - whether it be cars - like us - or disc drives, or tv sets, or whatever, GM is truly one of the best case studies of short sightedness and mismanagement I can think of. Keep in mind, I'm in the 4th largest city in the country, where there's tons of money, and the economy is actually not doing too bad because of how tied we are to the oil industry here, and I hate to break this to everyone - but I hardly see any new GM cars on the streets - most of the new cars on the streets are imports. The only new GM vehicles I see in any respectable numbers are their trucks and SUVs - but I hardly see any new GM cars. I see a fair number of late model Impalas (fleet??), and I see some of the newer Lambda SUV's, but as far as most of their cars go - let's just say I don't hold my breath waiting for one to pop up. I see a new Malibu about once every couple of days - but I see new Accords all over the place, every day. The 2008 CTS - well, I've seen a few (and I test drove one for $h!s and giggles), but I hardly see them at all. But on the flip side, I see newer IS models almost daily - and tons of them. I think this city is indicative of most places outside the Midwest where GM is going to have a lot of problems trying to convince Joe Consumer that their products a are really good now. If GM is this truly tied to trucks and SUV's for survival, then it'll be real interesting to see how they get themselves out of this mess they worked so hard to create. I think they'll be ok, the cars I do see from GM out on the streets do look good, but getting people to even put a new Malibu on their shopping list is going to be insanely tough in places like Houston - where there's few ties to Detroit, and most people's neighbors have given up on GM years ago. But markets like this are important - as are LA, Phoenix, Atlanta, etc, etc...I just don't know how they're going to do it without so much as coming out on TV and doing 80s Lee Iacocoa TV commercials (try our cars now, they're better, honest, don't give your money to foreign companies, etc, etc). Maybe that's extreme, but I don't see any other way short of giving the cars away for half price.

Alright you guys - don't hate me because I'm beautiful (okay, that was gay, but I don't get to write that very often)- but I got to test drive a red G8 GT at David Taylor B-P-GMC-Caddy here in Houston yesterday during lunch. I saw it parked out there on my way to work, so I instantly knew that I'd be giving up food for lunch to spend the time over at the dealer looking at it. bThe sales guy (young guy in his 20s) was totally cool about letting me drive it (with him in the car of course). It was the 6.0L V8 GT, but it didn't have leather or the sunroof, and it only had the 18s - but it was still pretty sweet. My one and only gripe about the car was that it didn't have XM radio built into the OEM head unit (which I guess will be out in the 09 model). Oh, and I didn't really like the battery and oil pressure display being constantly on in the middle (2 giant, strange looking red symbols in the middle of the upper dash) - that was simply very weird IMO. But f*ck it, wouldn't keep me from buying one. So as we all know, it totally hauls ass of course. I can sum it up like this - it feels like a very big Infiniti G35 - instead with that awesome GM OHV V8 sound. Lots of room inside, which is nice. There's something nice about seeing GM starting to build some really solid bodies. There were a few CTS' and STS' parked nearby as well as a new Enclave. You know, it's refreshing to see a dealer lot of GM cars that are simply just really good cars - they all looked like very solid, well put together automobiles. I don't think even the most die hard of GM fan could really say that with a serious face back in 1998. All they need to do is get the word out to everyone that abandoned them over the years to Toyota and Honda. Back to the G8 being a big car - I have mixed emotions about it. I wonder if GM should really start thinking about coming out with some sedans that are more in the 3400-3600 lbs. range and stuffing the DI V6 in them. Don't get me wrong, I liked the G8 a lot, but I'm wondering if that car should have been brought over as the Buick Park Avenue (with a nicer interior) - and then have a smaller, lighter RWD sedan for Pontiac that's more like a G35 or IS350 or something? All in all - the G8 was sweet. I think I'm going to hold out for the Camaro though.

He wouldn't happen to live in Houston? I literally just saw a brand new black Impala SS being driven by a guy who in my neck of the woods, I'd normally see behind the wheel of an IS250 or G35 or something. Actually, despite the fact that it's front wheel drive, I still think the 2006+ Impala SS makes for a pretty cool car. GM does well in Houston with their trucks and SUV's, but I don't see that many new GM cars running around. I mostly see Honda and Toyota here. As far as luxury type cars, every once in a blue moon I'll see a new CTS, but most of the "entry level" or mid level luxury sport sedans are G35's and IS's and Bimmers (and first generation CTS actually). I love the new CTS, but it's expensive when you start loading it up with the options I want.

I think G8 Sport Truck is a good name - it's simple and to the point. Customers will know what it is. This is an interesting vehicle. Hopefully if it's priced and marketed well - I think this could be a real viable option for those who want something that will handle and perform well, but has some solid and real versatility to it too. There may be a bit of a stigma attached to it for a lot of consumers, but it could really catch on if marketed right. (especially with hip, trendsetting types like me)

I actually thought that was pretty funny!

It's kind of like being at a bar, and then running into a coworker from the office that you don't see that much outside of work.

I say bring Holden's entire line up here - and rebadge them as Pontiacs. Wait a second....

BTW - my wife grew up in a neighborhood between Dairy Ashford and Kirkwood off Memorial. Small world. hahaha.

Oh cool. We live over near The Heights in Timbergrove - (near 11th and TC Jester, inside the Loop). You'd actually be pleasantly surprised at the transformation this city has gone through over the last 20 years - the neighborhoods closer to downtown and the Heights are a lot more appealing than they used to be.

I live in Houston. Beautiful in the winter - absolutely horrible in the summer. I think I was a little hopped up on coffee this morning. Sorry about the rant. Lots of good ideas on this website though, hopefully we'll see some real inspiring products (to add to some of the good products that finally hit the market this last year) coming out soon here in North America. I think we will. Keep in mind too PCS, we can have really cool GME cars (read, small, diesel powered 40mpg fwd. cars) live in perfect harmony on the showroom with sportier rear drive models too. I see a Buick/Pontiac GMC showroom with a diverse collection of the best GM has to offer from every corner of the globe. It can be done intelligently I think with a little bit of out of the box thinking. One thing GM has that the Japanese companies don't - I diverse range of minds with a similar ambition- from all over the globe. Utilize it here in North America -and GM will get it's MOJO back.

This car is cool - the Camaro is better looking , but this would make a really cool GTO. We'll never see it though because GM doesn't know up from down at the moment.