gmcbob

Oh, just thought about it - I see G6 Pontiac's more often then you would think too. But again, not too terribly often.

Mr. Brown probably is a d-bag, but I'm afraid his observations are very realistic. I don't spend a lot of time in Southern California, but I live in Houston - probably one of the fastest growing cities in the country and extremely far removed geographically and mentally from Detroit (and the rest of the Midwest). Unfortunately, I notice pretty much the same thing here - very, very few GM "cars" on the road - especially few new ones. I'm seeing the Malibu pop up here and there, but I can literally go days without seeing one - a Camry on the other hand - they're like stink on $h! in Houston. I can drive 5 minutes and probably see 7 of them between here and my grocery store. Now, I'd be willing to bet GM does a little bit better here in Houston than they do in LA, but that's just an educated guess. What's real sad IMO is the shear volume of new Tundras I see all over the place (mostly driven by "city slickers", hehehe) - that had me more worried about GM more than anything up until gas became ridiculously expensive this spring. Although as the market shifts away from trucks, GM probably isn't worried as much about the Tundra anymore. And giving the Silverado credit in Houston, I probably do see more Silverados, especially when it comes to contractors and actual workers, etc,etc. But when it comes to mainstream mid size sedans, coupes and compacts - there's nary a GM in sight - and that's just a downright fact. I always think that Bob and Rick should come and stand on a busy street corner here near Rice Village or Memorial Park or something - they'd be very disappointed - and probably overwhelmed with a sense of "how in the world did this happen??" I would say the most "popular" GM car I see (new) are the newer Impalas. I'm not sure if it's because they're fleeted out pretty heavily or what, but there seems to be quite a few on the roads. Now, I don't see the Impala in Camry or Accord numbers, not at all, but enough that I actually notice them, and I can almost guarantee that if we drive around more than 5 minutes today, I might see 1 or 2 in that 5 minutes. I'm actually starting to see more Cobalts sprinkling in with traffic and the new Lambda vehicles are starting to pop up on a daily basis too (I'm not a big SUV guy, but that GMC Acadia is actually a very nice SUV) - and down in Sugar Land where I work there seems to be a few Buick Enclaves running around (very nice suburb of Houston). So GM still resonates with some people here in Houston - but not even close to Toyota/Honda/Nissan (for cars) - and I mean it's not even close. GM *MUST* figure this problem out - first and foremost. And I say, they're doing a downright $h!ty job of trying. They need more compelling, out of the box advertising - period! Hook up with Apple or Google or something, get some fresh ideas brewing for their advertising - because clearly they don't know how to do this. Every time I see a new Camry with paper plates I think - "well, there's someone that didn't drive a Malibu - because they either don't know about it, or they think it's junk without even considering it". One thing I will say, and I don't know if it's a Texas thing - but I do see a lot of Fords on the road here. Escapes, F150s, Expeditions, even Fusions. I would be willing to bet that Ford does better than Chevy here in Houston, but that's just my observation. Oh, and although I see more foreign luxury cars (because there simply is more foreign luxury cars) - I do see quite a few Cadillacs here. In ritzy neighborhoods, the Escalade count is very high.

If GM ran that commercial, with the exact same actors that Apple uses (it would have to be the same two guys to have the right kind of impact), I think it would be awesome. It would probably resonate well with the type of demographic that GM needs back in their showrooms (30 something professionals). You'd have to put the two cars in the background or something at the end though. A lot of consumers still don't know what the new Malibu looks like.

That's funny, my wife went to high school over there (Stratford) and grew up near Westheimer and Kirkwood. Well, Houston is okay in a sense that there's tons of great restaurants and bars and an incredibly awesome, world class museum district (over by Rice University) - but beyond that, I don't really like living here. Way too hot in the summer and it's absolutely flat as a pancake (and I love hiking). After having lived in Colorado for a while, Eastern Texas is for the birds.

Maybe it's our mutual love for Houston, Texas? (Didn't you live here once before?) If Pontiac goes, I'll be sad, but as long as Chevy has a cool rear drive offering (read: Camaro) for the foreseeable future, and GM at least keeps Sigma II (or similar) around for Cadillac (past this current generation), then I think they'll still get respect from the enthusiasts and still be worth "following" (and buying from).

Why is no one psyched about a really nice Alpha platform Chevy???? I am. A 3200 lbs. DI 304 HP Chevy coupe with really aggressive muscle car/American styling with the acceleration and handling like say, a G37? Sign me up. In fact, that very car would get me more psyched about GM's future than a 4000 lbs. Zeta Pontiac does in light of the fact that gas is expensive as $h! all of the sudden.

First off, I'm pretty sure GM is not going to go out of business in NA. I wouldn't really worry about that. This is a HUGE company that I think is pretty well funded (probably better than any of us on this board even understand). They make a ton of money in China, SA, and Europe and banks realize that this is a fact - GM won't have as much trouble funding their operations as these columnists (who probably know very little about this) have their readers believe. Like I've posted here before - most of these people writing these columns, especially in the Wall ST Journal and Forbes, etc, know very little about the car industry. I'm not an expert at all - my Dad worked for GM for many years, but that was long ago, and I'm merely just a car guy - but I do know that pessimism sells papers, and these jerks love to make things sound a lot worse than they are. It's human nature friends. It's bad, but not nearly as bad as what these writers want everyone to think. This particular columnist thinks that bankruptcy is more than likely going to happen. I've seen some (more positive) analysis that says more than likely GM won't declare bankruptcy (and if it did, there would only be a 20% chance of it and it would be if we went into a really severe depression and it would be in 2011 or something). Nobody knows for sure - it's all speculation and BS. I'd say that 20+billion in cash and something like another 7B in credit + factories, brands, various business units, etc, etc...sounds like a company that is far from BK to me. If I were a betting man - I'd put money on GM being alive (and well) in NA for a long time. But one thing is for sure- they'll be a shadow of themselves as we know it. We've watched it slowly happening since the 90s - they've let the Japanese take over the market here, and there's absolutely nothing they can do to stop them now. Not a thing. The damage was done years and years ago. Now it's time for them to take a good, hard look at how they can maintain their business in an insanely competitive market which will primarily be made up of a 4 cylinder small and mid size cars. They know they can do it based on their European business - and from what I can tell, it looks like that will be the direction they go (utilizing Opel platforms). I think we can certainly get an idea of what's happening by reading the internet (and simply watch what's happening - especially for you guys who actually work in the industry or at a dealer). But I think everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt here. Things change - gas prices change, people in charge change. I remember 3 years ago everyone was totally freaking out, Wall St. was throwing around the bankruptcy talk, etc, etc, and look - GM is still here. We may see a few brands go away over time (although I have no idea how they'll do it, considering how costly and messy getting rid of Olds was) - but somehow we'll probably see it. Here's my prediction for what GM is going to look like - loosely based on what PCS posts constantly, and what I think GM will *think* they need to do to remain profitable. GM in NA, 2011 Chevrolet / Buick-Saturn / Cadillac / Saab I'd be very pissed right now if I were a B-P GMC dealer - but I think GM is going to basically give them Saturn cars to sell. GM's probably figuring that with $4 gas here to stay, GMC is going to start losing sales anyway, so the dealers aren't going to miss what isn't selling that well anyway. I dunno. Just a thought. I do think that under that scenario, the upcoming G8 sport truck needs to be sold as a Chevy - it gives GM a "truck" that gets good mileage so that can help meet the new CAFE regulations with their truck fleet.

I want to add that in a perfect world, GM should keep the Camaro on Zeta until Alpha is ready.

I hope you aren't BS-ing us PCS. I'd be psyched about a car with Camaro styling and G37/350Z type weight (or maybe even lighter). Give it the DI 304 HP V6, and I'm there! Zeta is cool, no doubt- I (test) drove a G8 a few months back and I really thought it drove every bit as nice as my wife's new G35, but I could tell that if it were 500 lbs. less (like the G35) it would have felt a little better on a "seat of your pants" level. I actually had this feeling while I was driving around in it that GM would have been smarter to really give this car a Caddy style interior/exterior and market it as a real full size Caddy (DTS). (or just bring over the Buick Park Avenue from China). First off, they could have sold it for $50,000 - and I think it would have been a real awesome competitor for the LS460 - something GM doesn't have in the US anymore (lets face it, the DTS can't compete with the big full size, rear drive import luxury cars these days). That would have been a better use for Zeta in North America IMO. I dunno - I'm all for a smaller rear drive modern GM car. Alpha sounds like it'll be pretty cool. I hope it happens. Maybe Zeta will stick around as a big Caddy or Buick - that would be a smart business decision. Even with CAFE/gas price issues, etc, GM could still sell a big Zeta as a Caddy or even as a Park Avenue I think.

I think the Malibu is going to have a real tough time gaining the kind of traction it needs to have Camry/Accord monthly numbers in the current US market place. People who are blowing $25k+ on a regular old 4 door sedan like the Malibu either a) has no idea it exists b) doesn't trust that GM (or any other American car company) can build a better car than Toyota or Honda, or c) is holding off for the economy to turn around or d) all of the above. I had this gut feeling that the Malibu wouldn't do as well as GM hoped it would. I don't think it's going to be as big of a sales flop as the GTO, but I don't think it will outsell the Camry anytime soon. First of all, as we've all talked about on here in the past - the perception problem is absolutely killing GM right now. I talked to this guy Wednesday at work (who is an actual honest to God car guy). This guy has a full size Chevy Silverado (2004) which he absolutely loves, and his wife drives a VW Jetta. We were on the topic of mid size cars, and he is absolutely convinced, without even driving it, that the Malibu is "probably not as good" as an Altima, Accord or Camry. He loves his Chevy truck (and GM cars from the 60s, but who doesn't), but is convinced that their mid size cars will simply not perform or feel as nice as a comparable Japanese car. There's soooooo many people who feel this way that buy these types of bread and butter sedans, that GM is going to have to essentially give them away in order to sell 30,000+ a month like the Camry. It's sad, it's amazing (considering GM's history and depth), but I'm beginning to think that it's an absolute fact that GM is just going to have to live with. Like I've written before, GM needs much better marketing. Their marketing blows. The Malibu is a good product - but I think the price needs to be lowered on it. I know the transaction prices are higher than the old ones, but they're still only pushing 15,000 of them out the door each month. I think if they lowered the price about $2500, advertised it like mad, and I mean like completely inundating the airwaves and TV with ads showing just how it beat the Camry in various road tests, has a more appealing interior, tighter panel gaps, etc, etc...and showed off how much car you get for the money backed by GM's 100k mile warranty - and really pushed that warranty with this product - then maybe you'd get the thing up to 25k a month or so, which is a lot more respectable. Also, with more of them on the streets, you get more "Chevy actually builds cars, sedans" brand awareness. They need it bad - especially here in Houston - where if you see a Chevy product, it's typically a truck or a Tahoe.

That's an interesting post. I have a friend here in Houston that loves to get on the topic of how the Federal Reserve Bank is essentially unconstitutional and is almost 100% responsible for a lot of the mess we're in now. It's interesting that you really don't hear this topic being brought up much in the mainstream media. Moreover, from what I understand, when Ron Paul tried bringing up this topic during candidate debates, he would instantly become ignored by the host, and have the topic either diverted or have the host go straight to a different candidate. This country is so screwed up, it's completely amazing. I love the United States - we can read and say what we want, and we're basically free to start any business we want to (with enough cash), and we have some of the most beautiful landscapes and National Parks in the entire world, but our Govt. is absolutely ridiculous. The power of the almighty dollar has corrupted the body politic in this country to the point where they aren't for you and I, but they're for lining their own pockets at our expense. Just look at what deregulating the energy industry (Enron) has done to our electricity and gas prices. That was all done for the benefit of large banks, which had their hands straight in the pockets of all the major players in Govt. I think it's funny when Congress has a hearing on whether or not some baseball player is on steroids, but doesn't bother looking into the mess that is our "energy trading" policies and how the Federal Reserve Bank works. Barry Bonds never tried to get into my wallet and suck my money out.

I married a girl (woman) 5 years older than me, and I feel it was a good move. Go for it man. Be careful about work relationships though.

:rotflmao:

I want to see GM dominate (I guess) - but I'm pulling for Ford just as much. Lets hope that their European Focus and Fiesta launch goes well, and that they sell a lot of them. It looks like for Ford, those great little small cars can't come fast enough. It'll be interesting to see what happens over the next year or so. The bozo's at the top of GM really need to evaluate what they're thinking when it comes to Pontiac (if they're indeed thinking about killing it). They can do a lot with that brand if they put their minds to it. Fuel economy is clearly the future of the auto market - GM could still keep Pontiac and make it hip with the right types of product, without having to kill Pontiac and match up Saturn and Buick (as has been rumored around here). I envision a really nice Pontiac based off the NG Cobalt/Astra with red gauges, distinctive split grille Pontiac styling and I also envision a Firebird version of the Camaro. A Firebird would sell well I think - I know the powers that be aren't in that mindset, but I think a really cool, well made Astra type chassis FWD car with Pontiac styling, the Solstice and a Firebird all have their place next to an Eps. II Buick Regal in a PBGMC showroom a year from now. How cool would that be to see a GM that still goes against the Honda/Toyota grain - offering interesting products at prices that allow a wide range of people the chance to get into. BPGMC can pull this off with the right type of marketing - but I think to market it correctly, it would take some out of the box thinking - the type of thinking that I think GM isn't really used to or up to these days. Here I am, at 33, and I truly feel that a lot of guys my age "get" what Pontiac and Buick can be based on what they were in the 60s/70s heyday better than what GM's 50+ middle management get now. Alright, I guess I went off topic, but I think a lot of you can relate. GM can dominate with what they have if they put their minds to it - especially with the future product that's coming. I say go crazy and even offer a Pontiac version of the Volt. Why not?

How interesting is this, Buick and Saturn could be together at one dealership here in the next few years- Saturn is essentially Opel, and Opel's were sold through Buick dealerships back in the 70s. "We meet again". Well, it sounds like the NG Buick (hopefully to be renamed Regal) will be an Opel Insignia. So, if PCS isn't full of poop, then it's looking like we'll have the middle ground between Chevy and Caddy filled with Opel's rebadged as Saturns and Buicks of all things. Honestly, if they're really good cars, then that's ok with me. As long as they continue to build Cadillac as a BMW/Infiniti type brand (rwd), then making Buick/Saturn as European type fwd cars in the same vein as Audi, I guess that might work. Actually, when my Dad was a district zone manager back in the 70s for Buick/Opel, he loved driving the Opels as company cars (it didn't happen often). I was actually surprised, but he talked about those Opel GT's years later as being really cool cars. Hmmm...those were rear drive. At the end of the day though, GM needs at least a couple of rear drive sedans - no matter how bad the economy is, those cars will sell (maybe not in high volume numbers), but there's certainly a high profit market for those sedans (especially in places like China believe it or not). Caddy is it. And for the record, even if GME is responsible for the chassis going forward for Caddy, I don't care as long as the CTS remains "proper" - Caddy needs at least 1 or 2 rear drive cars to remain relevant in the $30k + market. We all know this is just the way it is. If GM screws up Caddy, then I'm out as a fan. That would be like rooting for the 1984 Buffalo Bills. Future Buick/Saturn dealer Saturn Astra - make it have standard XM and AUX connection you whackos! Saturn Corsa Saturn Sky Saturn Vue Saturn Insignia Coupe - you know, the Coupe concept vehicle that sort of reminds me of an Audi A5 Buick Regal - (Opel Insignia) unscathed Buick Riviera - like the concept car revealed in China Buick Park Avenue - Zeta car - now, I'm thinking Zeta's days are numbered - so maybe this will be on a Sigma (or Alpha) style architecture. Fully modern, rear drive sedan that's well appointed - marketed as an IS250/IS350 competitor. Am I dreaming? Probably, but if this car happened with current Buick styling, I'd jump around in front of my house naked. Buick Skylark - smaller than Park Avenue, rear drive sedan that's about the size of a 1 Series or a TSX.

No offense, but if you crazy d-bag's kill Sigma for Caddy (or wipe Caddy clean of any rear drive offerings in the next few years), that will be the kiss of death for GM thinking they'll sell nearly as many Caddy's as they sell now. Hopefully someone high up has a "hand off our Sigma platform" attitude at Caddy right now. If there's a new RWD car platform for Caddy I don't know about, then great - but don't kill RWD altogether for Caddy - that would be almost dumber than not having a good B class car for sale. Why do you think Caddy "came back" during the past few years? That CTS is one of the most compelling cars GM sells (besides the Vette) - you kill it, and everything that GM worked so hard to do to bring Caddy back to life will be all for nothing. You brainiacs running things over there must realize at least that much when it comes to Caddy. Look at Lexus and Infiniti, and you'll see what I mean - you need rear drive sedans to be anywhere near relevant at that price point. Period. Cadillac is too awesome (and frankly, one of the only really, really good brands) that GM has left - it would be a shame to see it turn into a brand of ridiculous re-badged FWD sedans (like the 80s). Well, I guess there was a Fleetwood back in those days, but still. (of course, that's like comparing Dump trucks to crotch rockets in my eyes).

Yes, all of this is depressing (Caddy selling more FWD vehicles), but I think as long as they have at least 2 rear drive sedans, they'll still be considered as a legitimate player in the luxury car market. Let's face it, the Escalade doesn't exactly need to be riding around on an old BOF platform anyway, as most people who purchasing Escalades probably don't care much about it being "high performance" or rear drive anyway. They're interested in content and features. This should be Caddy's strategy going forward: Small rear drive Caddy (like 1 or 3 Series) sedan and coupe (Alpha??) Mid size rear drive (CTS) sedan and Coupe Large rear drive DTS (sedan) Lambda SUV SMall SUV

1. 0 2 Well.... I wanted the CTS, but my better half liked the G35 better (and it was a lot cheaper) - and it's her daily driver, so we got that. Depending on how insane I feel in a year or two, I may get a CTS Coupe - but my more pragmatic side will probably drive me into ultimately driving something a lot cheaper.

And nothing on the Astra? That blows. If they put 0% for 72 on an Astra, I'd probably go buy one tomorrow and stick my XM radio in it - have a cool 5 door hatchback built by our wonderful friends at GME and call it a day for the next few years (as far as new car buying goes). It's honestly the only fuel efficient car from GM that I think would be really cool to own.

Probably not a bad idea to get rid of Hummer. I'll bet the day that happens you'll see a 10% increase in GM's stock price. Actually, I think GM could still do a lot with that brand, but the focus really needs to be on developing very good Civic/Corolla/Yaris/Fit fighters.

Now if only GM could somehow create and implement a technology, that by using elaborate mind control processes, subliminally convinces everyone who abandoned their products in the 90s and early 2000s to revisit a Chevy showroom, or else they'll completely lose all of the feeling in their genitalia. Maybe through TV and XM radio? :rotflmao: Actually, all kidding aside, being someone who is interested in computers, technology, supply chain and manufacturing, these kinds of articles are cool.

The GM Europe design center looks cool. I remember my Dad getting so upset when GM decided to become "GM" and not a bunch of divisions doing their own thing under one umbrella. But from a cost standpoint, running the company as one large organism when it comes to supply chain, design, marketing, finance and engineering makes way more sense to me. A lot of really huge companies that I've worked with on projects are moving or have already moved in this direction. Stupid economies of scale. (I work for a firm that does project work for Fortune 500 companies)

I think it would be really ugly if one of the Big 3 declared bankruptcy. It would be headline news for days, and whichever one did it would have a lot of trouble trying to sell cars here in the US under their respective brands ever again - it would be devastating economically (especially in the Midwest), and for a lot of car guys like us, it would be a real emotional kick in the crotch. I think it would take a long time for me to get my head around never having a new Chevy on the road in America. I'd be real bummed. I think I'd have to find a new interest for a while - at least just west of Houston there's some incredibly good bird watching. But I also I have to think that a lot of the so called financial experts that write blogs, write short money management articles for CNN, and have shows like "Mad Money Cramer" (he strikes me as more of an entertainer than an analyst BTW) don't know that much at all about the automobile industry. I've never worked in the auto industry, but from what I can tell, and from my what my Dad had said in the past (worked his way through GM and up to a Buick District Zone Manager for many, many years) - is that this industry is incredibly unique in just how insanely convoluted it can seem, and can be made to seem, from a financial standpoint. I know my Pops was a little crazy, but I think a lot of what he said was probably right - and one of the things he always used to say was "no matter what GM tells you is happening, or how much financial trouble they seem to be having, the accountants there are the cleverest bastards in the world, and they have more tricks up their sleeves than anybody. Wall Street knows nothing about how cars are built or how they're sold, not a damn thing". In other words - Wall St. and TV personality stock analysts should probably not be considered the last word in how the car industry is really doing. GM is a very large company, it's bigger outside the US than it is inside the US. I think if GM really gets into a bind, they'll take out a loan against GME or something before they'd declare bankruptcy. Let's face it, even though they only have 20% of it, the US is still a lucrative market - they know this and they're going to try very hard not to completely lose it. My guess is this: they'll continue to use the profits from Asia, Europe and South America to develop more and more [small, fuel efficient] cars in those parts of the world and keep the entire steam engine running down the tracks, while simultaneously work to downsize their foot print in the American market. I'm not sure how, or what kind of legal and financial ramifications it may have, but I wouldn't be too surprised to see only Chevrolet, Cadillac and maybe Saturn/Saab left in the USA a few years down the road. It'll be hard, it'll suck for us guys who thought Pontiacs were cool and should stay, but it's probably going to happen. Do I think it should - well, I don't know, I sometimes wonder if the meetings at GM start off with a few deep pulls from an insanely large bong loaded with hash, but it if PCS is right, it looks like that's what's going to happen. But it might be just what the doctor ordered in this case - they let Toyota and Honda trample all over them like women stomping grapes, but maybe now they're realizing that purging the house of cost might be what's needed. I'm just wondering if that by doing so, they're purging the house of value too (with all of these brands/history, so much clever, cool things can be done). All I can say is - I truly hope the Volt goes down in history like the iPod, and that it changes the perception of GM being an old, non innovative company - it's what they need I think.

I'm beginning to think that nothing makes sense to me when it involves automobiles these days. hahahahahaha!