evok

80 - 100k with limited, contstrained volume for the first couple years at no more then 110k, if it reaches that level before tapering off to the lower end. Tooling up for any more, may not be practical.

Yes - Uncle Bob says a lot of things to the press and I personally take his publically spoke words with like a grain of salt. Even just recently at NAIAS where he spoke about a business case for the Camaro at a volume of 160k+ vehicles. Taken at face value, I would not ever expect the concept to be given approval for production based upon that target. Uncle Bob talks a good public game but I would not take him at his word or his word being final.

ha ha - saved me the trouble.

CK your PM. I understand where you are coming from. Now you should understand where I am coming from also.

Get with the program. In do time and on my schedule I will show everyone the source. With a little bit of effort you can find it also. BTW watch what you say and do not accuse me of stealing anything. This info is in the public domain already. I just happened to find it. And I can assure you and all that it was not found on a GM website, an affiliate or supplier website. Let me put it this way, GM just paid a price for globalization. They need to get their global security in order. Hell I even posted the name of the source of the picture above.

No it is just some CAD work that Vineet Maheshwari has contributed to the GMX-386 Malibu Interior in Prune, India. I think he does good work. I wonder what GM thinks?

Disclaimer to follow.

I really want our friendly neighborhood auto spy to get a good shot of the BM in action. PS I did do a Carfax on that vehicle the BM is selling. Loan Default Rain Damaged VD infested. I do not think it is a good deal at $25k.

But the BM will solve all that is wrong with GM that you just pointed out by making sure GM Emplyees turn their company cars in with low milage, give GM employees GM Card points on top of GMS and bring the dealers into Detroit City for an all expense paid weekend of booze, gals and product previews.

Wow, the dillusions of self importance are getting greater. Now your plan will increase market share by a full 6 percentage points. Lucy In the Sky ... with Diamonds!

Just tell him Wagoner sent you, I am sure he will work something out. Rumour has it the BM got a good deal on that vehicle. Got it for a steal. Loan default.

Satty: I found one for you: http://www.jdollinger.com/HotDeals/unitDetails.cfm?ID=427

Come Chaz - they know better than us.

I do not know I have not talked to anybody about it.

Not available.

That's my plan! Minus the diesel.

LOL - The O.C. has extensively driven just about every Make, Model, Model Year vehicle in the last 20+ years. Not a car person, nah.

McElroy is still off base - He writes an editorial that summarily opions that all these companies are designing cars for the latest C&D drag strip comparision. That is just not true and really is a naive view of the industry if he actually believes what he wrote.

I understand your point but McElroy's article is pointless in the real world. Personally I really wish more companies had more product enthusiasts running the show. But I can assure you if companies like GM had the product enthusisast that he claims making the decisions, GM would have a lot more hits on their hands and less duds like, well you know. Product enthusisasts are the life line of this industry. Hell besides a couple niche models and just recently, the US Big 3 did not produce much for that 8% anyway. In either case I do not read the rags at all for the most part but when you do drive as many product as C&D and do back to back comparisons, the obvious flaws in the US Big 3 product become apparent. Product enthusiasts bring solidly build, well styled vehicles with good attention to detail that are confident to drive, that translates into the average buyer thinking they are driving a good product for the money.

LOL - 37 posts on the board and he wants to take you on when it comes to the product. Ha ha ha - some people need to sit back and read to find out who is who before directly posting like that.

I would argue that it is the functionality and command seating position and for some the availability of awd that has driven the switch to multi purpose vehicles since the early 90's. Now with looming fuel cost, when sales numbers are released this afternoon, we shall see if September 2005 Version 2.0 will repeat itself.

http://www.magazine-ads.com/adimages/DRK0003.jpg

Really with few exceptions most of the product from the big 3 have been irrelevant to the larger market over the last 20-30 years. Brands like Lincoln, Mercury, Buick and Pontiac have had no significant product in the market since 2000 relative to the competition. 2000 was the year where these brands lost value. That is why they are damaged brands today. There has been nothing to get excited about. Years ago, those brands sold product on the strength of their dealers and equity alone no matter how questionable their product was, but now with the heated competition, they do not stand out. All four of those brands need a Cadillac style make over and investment. The problem is a lack of money and resources. Lincoln up until the late 80s was always a niche player in the luxury market. Their sales were in the 60-80k vehicle range. That compared to Cadillac selling in the high 200k. Mercury was always a tarted up Ford, and now Lincoln is selling just rebadged Fords, next to Mercurys. Buick and Pontiac's images were set in the 50s and 60s. They have been running on the publics good will since then. Today there is very little brand equity left for the brands I just mentioned. With luxury brands going downscale and entry brands moving upscale - there is little room left for the middle brands. They are getting squeezed out of the market. In many ways an OEM like Toyota is a poster child for the Smale/Zarella brand managment done right. Each of Toyotas vehicles are a brand to themselves. They have reached a significance in the market where Camry, Avalon, Corolla are brands with meaning. The same can not be said for the US OEMS. The problem I see is that not only have the big 3s individual models lost their relevance, the brands themselves have lost their value, significance and focus to the market. To correct that will take discipline, luck, money and a forgiving public. I will close with this example. When the original Fiero was first released, Pontiac sold 100,000 2 seaters. That could not be duplicated today. Think about that number 100,000 Fieros! That is a reflection on the good will Pontiac had given that the product was questionable and the Fiero was a limited appeal in theory 2 seat vehicle.

Since I did not post any estimates I will post that GM should tool up to 100k Camaros a year. Anymore would be a waste of money after demand settles down to equilibrium with annual sales around 70 - 90k. The Mustang is the Mustang to Ford. Ford will also deal the vehicle more than GM because of its significance to Ford's volume. The Camaro is a nice vehicle to have but it is not as a significant program as the Mustang is to Ford. Also, the Mustang is an icon to the brand as I have stated. That is something the Camaro is not but next to the Vette it is the closest they have. The Camaro and Firebird have not been on the market for years now goes to show just that. I would put the Camaro in the same league as the Thunderbird name. Also I would not compare the Camaro to the BMW 3. Come on Turbo! The Camaro should do well and be profitable much the same way the LX cars are for DCX. GM will be able to run the price from $20 - $40k depeding on options and pt configurations. Even still the public has a short attention span and we are beginning to see LX sales get soft. Even the Mustage is a lot softer than the sales indicate. Ford is dealing them right now. So I estimate a good number for the Camaro is in the 100k area on the high side. That still is a good number to add to the bottom line.