evok

I just find it odd that they have not been leaked yet. They have been out there since last summer.

Well this pompous dink spends about that much time in the business as well.

I forgot about the Toyota platform. But my point was, if kappa was done right and from what I expected early on, GM could have had a volume compact rwd on the road today, instead of in 20??.

They could switch the BLS to kappa have it compete head on with the 3 Series. The Pontiac version for starters could start at 16k and a Buick slightly above that. I am firm that Buick needs a small progressive vehicle on the lower end of the midsize market. They need younger buyers and younger product to change the image of the brand. This will make products like the Torana viable as well as wagons etc. Plus the added bonus is, there are only 2 other volume rwd small car platforms on the market right now. The Benz and BMW platforms. GM would be the first and they can charge a premium.

I think the argument is this. There is a need in the market for a small premium rwd architecture. Back when kappa was being developed many of us were hearing rumours that kappa would be a high volume platform. Bells went off in my head that GM finially was ahead of the curve and will do for small cars what DCX was about to do for the upper mid/full size segment with the LX cars. As a GM exec once said "You define you niche and then exploit it." That was my first reaction when I heard what I heard about the forth coming kappa. Trust me my heart sank when I saw the actual kappa platform. And you know what GM had a perfect opportunity to create a whole new market with endless possibilies with a flexible small rwd platform. But you know what, they blew it and wasted money and time with the current platform. Hell, I though back in 2003 that Pontiac and Buick might actually become relevant in the market again by offering something you can not get at other brands. Affordable, compact, rwd. Zeta even comes second to a smaller rwd platform. Hell, it would have gotten me into a Buick or Pontiac dealer if the cars were done right. But GM, you blew it.

That is what I find so interesting. Why have the codes not leaked out?

Oh Mr. Krinkle, you are still a newbie around here. I would just watch what you say. As for Josh and myself, we go way back and we can banter back and forth at will. Something we do not have. So be careful.

Yes

Than post the codes -

I am heading to bed shortly but I want to answer this post. PM me if I forget. I do have something to add and share.

I have no comment on his information. I just stand by my first post. And my usual caveat - be very careful what you read on the boards. MT, C&D Edmunds and the other rags mags publish a lot of stuff that are based on information taken out of context too. I verify a lot of the BS I read around on the boards and in the mags to see if it is fact. PS What are the program code for all these rwd programs?

Did I name names?

I try not to take what I read of there to seriously. It is like watching Fox news, it is amusing but taken out of context.

Personally i am not concerned about the first full year the Camaro is on the market, it's the following years that I have a problem with. My only argument for the Camaro is that it could generated some good will for the company. Hell every time I see a Mustang I applaude Ford because it is nice to see it on the road. It is an icon done right. But I do not see the Camaro as an icon. The concept was sweet but it is still not the same thing. The Mustang is the Camry of the pony cars but the Camaro done right could have a similar but lesser effect.

That is similar to something I have laid out in the past. In essence it is what they eventually will have out. Besides the Corvette brand, GM's model brands have almost no equity anymore. All of Chevys names are new or are ressurections of names from a forgotten era. Forget about the other division. I have arguments for and against the alph numeric names. But that is another story/ A long time ago I posted my thesis of brand management and stated that GM does not have any brands with equity beyond the divisional names anymore.

Yea - I am just waiting for some of the enthusiasts to see my post. I am sure I will be ridiculed soon. But heck, if the enthusisast really were that big of a factor we would not be discussing the potential RETURN of the Camaro icon.

Man - I really do welcome you here. It is nice to have another fact driven perspective on the industry to counter the rabble. As you already know I agree with you and disagree with Mr. Krinkle. His opinion lacks not only any insight but thought.

There is a lot more loyalty at Ford with the Mustang than the Camaro at GM. Ford is the Mustang and is a bread and butter car over there. The Camaro has been and will be still be an after thought at GM. When people think Ford, people think Mustang. When people think Camaro, well they think other things. There is a lot more that can be said about the 64 1/2 Mustang and its effect on a generation of people than any Camaro. Ford nailed it with the new Mustang. I do not care how much better the next Camaro will be when compared to the current Mustang and it will be but the Camaro will never touch the Mustangs sales. Not even close.

Wasn't GW's 2000 campaign message to do just that.

Josh give me a break - know thy business. Don't question me about auto and I will not question you about the latest cell phone deals and family plan. And BTW you take my statements out of context.

No but are you still hung over?

Well for once I will give GW credit. GM and Ford lack strategery!

Of course you should know as someone who drives a product by DaimlerChrysler AG. My German slips my mind at the moment but I forgot what AG stands for.

http://money.cnn.com/2001/05/02/economy/oil/Crude was trading closer to $30/barrel in 2001.

Oh he has to worry because of the theory of trickle down popularity. Bush's approval ratings track pretty well with oil prices. With his approval ratings in the toilet and the price of gas being a big part of it, if the Rebulicans loose congress, Bush will be blamed. Oh, he has one more election to go. He is the figurative head of the party.