oldshurst442

Yeah! The numbers dont lie. Ironically enough though, 2015 is when the Hellcat came out. And Im gonna post its sales numbers as I have no idea what those are. As I type this, Im curious to see when did the Challenger numbers start going up. Im willing to bet, its around 2015. maybe in 2016. Maybe 'twas 2018 when Dodge made the V6 model available with AWD? Here goes: DODGE CHALLENGER – US – BY YEAR Year sold 2008 17,423 2009 25,852 2010 36,791 2011 39,534 2012 46,788 2013 51,462 2014 51,611 2015 66,365 2016 64,478 2017 64,537 2018 66,716 2019 60,997 2020 52,955 2021 54,315 Well, whatever the reasons are for the Camaro to slip in sales, and in reality, its not just one main reason, Chevrolet needs to seriously rethink there marketing strategy for its Camaro. Tough sale as GM's marketing is crap.

FCA, allowed for this to happen. Marchionne was not a total fool. He knew where to spend money on improvements and increase the value of the vehicles he knew that were and are going to be cash cows for FCA.

Magneride allows for both and for both to be comfortable. I understand that "rides" and "handles" are two different things and usually ARE on opposite ends of the spectrum. That is why I asked. Handling great is usually allowed by stiffer suspension tuning. But on the road, real roads, that means that all the imperfections are felt. The one area where Montreal excels over ANY other North American city, including Detroit, is crappy, pot holed roadways. Our pot holes are literal craters. And we are just a few weeks away from pot hole season. It starts in mid March. Seeing that the Mach E is a sport CUV, and everybody is praising it for its great on-road prowess, I assume its because its tuned to handle rather than soak up the bumps, and thus stiff suspension, and seeing that only the GT Mach E has magnetic suspension, it be not quite the comfy ride. Im not quite intolerant of sporty suspension set-ups. Im getting there though slowly enough.

I havent taken a ride in one. And all the reviews all say in handles well. Could I safely say it rides harsh because its tuned to be sporty to handle? About the interior. Ive seen one up close, its what @Cory Wolfe eluded to with the Model 3 as being the norm. Its 'minimalistic'. And Ford decided to follow in Tesla's footsteps. I dont mind. As long as I have my information in front of me and not on the screen by the right of me. I guess you can get used to it, but I dont feel like I want to. All other glitzy EV interior tech I could live with, or live without... It dont bother me as much with or without it.

Teslas seem normal because they are still the benchmark. All other EVs are judged by what Tesla EVs do. Consumers want and expect Tesla levels of EV tech. I know I do. Not necessarily the speed performance of Tesla vehicles. Although as a car crazy person, I am amazed by that. But mostly by their battery, motor and software tech performance. The Model 3 gained that because its relatively inexpensive. Its battery range is still the one to beat. Its interior is minimalistic and adheres to the idea that its an average joe type of car and not for the elite. And like a true American "muscle car", the Model 3 has speed performance that beat exotic cars that average joes could afford and buy. About Musk...the board of directors could oust him. But why would they at the moment? As much of a loon he appears to be, Tesla sales keep rising and quash their rivals DESPITE Musk... Yes, the Ioniq 5 has done the EV mainstream CUV right! It appears to have Tesla levels of range, battery and software performance. No need to be a speed demon and therefore it gets the family hauling duties right. Unlike say the Mach E. But the Mach E is a Mustang and therefore it NEEDS to be a speed demon. But the Ioniq 5 is too expensive to be a mainstream family hauling EV.

I dont think size is an issue. Even going to Alpha. Camaro had respectable numbers as compared to Mustang all the way through. Forget about Camaro sales even beating Mustang for a couple of years. CHEVROLET CAMARO – US – BY YEAR Year sold 2009 61,648 2010 81,299 2011 88,249 2012 91,314 2013 80,294 2014 86,297 2015 77,502 2016 72,705 2017 67,940 2018 50,963 2019 48,266 2020 29,777 2021 21,893 FORD MUSTANG – US – BY YEAR Year sold 2005 160,975 2006 166,530 2007 134,626 2008 91,251 2009 66,623 2010 73,716 2011 70,438 2012 90,706 2013 77,186 2014 82,635 2015 122,349 2016 105,932 2017 81,866 2018 75,842 2019 72,489 2020 61,090 2021 52,384 I think Chevrolet missed the boat in that they never got away from that same look SINCE 2009. Even BEFORE that. The movie Transformers came out in 2007. 2 years before the car actually came out. But as people, we got to see the SAME style Camaro SINCE 2007. Before Alpha on the Zeta ONLY for the movie... And the Alpha Camaro Virtually unchanged. 1969 Camaro being the inspiration for both generations. The Mustang had the fastback Mustang of the mid '60s as inspiration, but both generations do NOT look alike. Like...at ALL. Ill use the Bullitt editions to illustrate my point As far as the Challenger goes. Well, it seems like what Ive said is contradictory... But I also explained why the Challenger went from trailing in sales to today Camaro levels to where Challenger leads in sales. Drew also pointed it out. AWD V6 Although it is slightly bigger, the Mustang is also kinda like a bunker inside, not as much as an Alpha Camaro, but Camaro DID see 70 000 units 2 or 3 years...so I dont think its a MAJOR factor. But the Challenger DID use ITS strengths to its advantage. Its NOT a track machine with its size and weight. What it IS though its a MUSCLE car through and through. The Mustang and Camaro have evolved from being muscle cars to being all around sports cars, which is also a good thing, BUT...the folk from Auburn Hills played UP the MUSCLE car image by UPPING the horsepower levels to UNGODLY amounts terrorizing Lamborghinis and Teslas along with its pony car peers and came up with MUSCLE car trim names like Scatpack 392, Superbee, Hellcat, Demon. The Camaro FAILED to impress with the IMAGE of WANTING a ZL1... The ZL1 ALSO spanked cars ABOVE its class. Its a silent Porsche killer on the track. But...MUSCLE car people dont care for that. And...Porsche people dont care about Camaros. Hennessey gets it when HE introduced The Exorcist... THAT should have been Chevrolet doing that if Chevrolet was following instead of leading with the horsepower wars. Mustang...dont forget, has Shelby Performance. The GT350 made a splash with their "flatplane" crank V8... Hinting at Corvette C8 Z06... Shelby tied in with Mustang also has MUSCLE CAR type SUPERSNAKES. Just to say, the Camaro is stale, boring and does NOT get anybody excited to own one. The Mustang and Challenger excite folk because their marketing has evolved since 2007. Transformer movies are looooong gone. Even the movie franchise, The Bumblebee movie from 2-3 years ago, gave up on the Camaro and went back to their roots with a VW Bug...

Totally! I see the way EVs are created with their funky LED lighting outside of the vehicle and inside, all the shiny gadgets and creative tech and THAT alone makes people want them as their ICE counterparts are not as glitzy. ALL (or most) of the R&D money goes into EVs nowadays so OEMs are getting crafty in making EVs. To the average joe, this is what peaks his interest. And the non-stop message of EVs are mostly maintenance free and that is enough for people to convert. On the other hand, non-stop messaging of charging times and where to charge and the absence of a variety of EV models to choose from from price to style, keeps EV sales at bay. To the average joe, motive power seems irrelevant. I gather, whatever is more cheaper to run and what is more convenient to own will win the hearts of the average joe. EVs havent attained that level yet to silence the misinformation that is out there against EVs. +1 on the Fisker. When the North American EV market will be flooded with EVs of this price range and style, from ALL the OEMs, will we see a great switch to EVs. The Mach E is a sporty CUV, great for the 'look at me' crowd. Its not a mass market appealing vehicle. The average joe doesnt want that kind of attention. This is why Toyotas sell by the ton. Im holding out from getting a CUV for myself as long as I could hold out. But I have a feeling that conventional sedans are not quite dead yet... They are concerning the IC. But I have a feeling that there will be some EV sedans to choose from. The Taycan and its Audi cousin GT E-Tron turns a lot heads. Mine included when NOT painted in Trans Am bandit colours. LOL The Lucid Air. Mercedes with their ugly EQS has garnered interest. Cadillac Celestiq. Sure, these are all expensive sedans, but sedans are still wanted by the buying public and OEMs are recognizing this and are still giving us sedans to drool over...

This however is acceptable

^^^ I see what is going on here... and it enrages me that such a thing could exist... Piss on the dude that created this atrocious thing I wish I could have never seen such a thing Phoquing bullshyte!!!

I am in nooooo hurry to change my car (or my wife's) anytime soon. 1. Craaaaazy prices of new (and used) cars are through the roof. 2. Not one car, ICE or BE, interests me in 2022 enough for me to forego my car. The CT5 Cadillac and the new Acura TLX are intriguing. But nothing about them makes me lust after them. OK...the CT5 in Blackwing V is lust worthy to me. But not for where I reside. Gasoline prices is pretty high right about now. Approx. CDN $1.55/liter for 89 octane and $1.65/liter for 93 octane. Thats like 6.5 CDN dollars per gallon... I gather the supercharged LT4 slurps the good stuff. With gasoline prices that high, EVs are looking that much better for me... But unfortunately, nothing in the EV world is jumping at me either. The Lucid Air seems like it fits my needs and tastes as much as a CT5 Cadillac and TLX does, but the pricing of that car, in any trim, is just a tad tooooo much for my liking. I wouldnt buy a CT5 V Blackwing either BECAUSE of the price tag. The Mustang Mach E is nice as well, and its in my budget, its a CUV... Im not one for CUVs. The Tesla Model S remains a car that I like. Aside from the price tag being too high like the others mentioned, I dont want to be giving my money to Elon Musk. Over the last few years, Ive grown to despise the man. Its still a waiting game for EVs for me at this time. Im not counting out ICE ownership yet though. But on both accounts, nothing interests me for me to spend money needlessly. Both the Ford and the Acura serve me and my wife reliably well.

That what you said or... A restomodded Fleetwood Brougham D'Ellegance with all the goodies from a CT6 V Blackwing. Especially the Blackwing V8 and the magnetic shocks.

You got vaxxed, didnt you? Too late for that, bud!

Musk and Tesla is also working on a robot... https://insideevs.com/news/563498/tesla-robot-mostimportant-product-development/ But he gets pissed at Biden for excluding Telsa when talking about American EV production. Why is he pissed? He is LITERALLY saying that cars may not be that important for humans in the future with these two new endeavors... Biden may NOT be wrong in excluding Tesla for American EV manufacturing...

That is a GREAT colour! And it fits the CT5 nicely!

@riviera74 Ill also add, in addition to crappy outward visibility, and old, loooong in the tooth styling... Is that Dodge has sparked off a horsepower war that not only put Mustang and Camaro owners on edge, but Corvette owners too. On top of that, Lamborghini and all other exotic owners too. And although the Challenger wont beat anybody around a race track, the Challenger with the big horsepower has shamed all in straight line acceleration including the fastest of the fastest of them all: EV straight line acceleration. And although the Challenger is not a race track kinda car, it actually doesnt handle all that bad. Its quite good actually. But it plays to ITS strengths and THAT is what people LOVE about it. MOST folk that buy MUSCLE cars (The Challenger) dont give a shyte about track times around the 'Ring. The Challenger plays to ITS strengths and doesnt follow anybody else. The Challenger plays on its own terms and lets others follow them. And when I say others, I do include all other performance cars such as the Camaro and Mustang but also INCLUDING exotics and supercars and EVs. A question: Who wants to drive a Zee Elle One when one could drive one of these? And they are having fun doing it. Challenger owners are having a blast!

It Took 13 Years, But The Dodge Challenger Has Finally Won (jalopnik.com) In 2015 Ford Mustang hit it peak followed by the Chevrolet Camaro and every year since has dropped in sales. 2015 was also the year that Ford released the current Mustang that is still selling 7 years later. 2015 Ford Mustang sold 122,349 to 66,377 Challengers. 2021 Sales Ford Mustang 52,414 Chevrolet Camaro 21,893 Dodge Challenger 54,314

Possible theme song? So long ago I don't remember when That's when they said I lost my only friend Well they said she died easy of a broke heart disease As I listened through the cemetery trees I seen the sun comin' up at the funeral at dawn With the long broken arm of human law Now it always seemed such a waste She always had a pretty face I wondered why she hung around this place Hey-ey-ey Come on try a little Nothing is forever Got to be something better than in the middle Me and Cinderella We put it all together We can drive it home With one headlight She said it's cold It feels like independence day And I can't break away from this parade But there's got be an opening Somewhere here in front of me Through this maze of ugliness and greed And I've seen the sign up ahead at the county line bridge Sayin' all is good and nothingness is dead We run until she's out of breath She ran until there's nothing left She hit the end, just her window ledge Hey-ey-ey Come on try a little Nothing is forever Got to be something better than in the middle But me and Cinderella We put it all together We can drive it home With one headlight Well this place is old It feels just like a beat up truck I turn the engine but the engine doesn't turn Well it smells of cheap wine and cigarettes This place is always such a mess Sometimes I think I'd like to watch it burn I'm so alone Feel just like somebody else Man, I ain't changed, but I know I ain't the same But somewhere here in between the city walls of dying dreams I think her death, it must be killing me Hey, hey, hey-ey-ey Come on try a little Nothing is forever There's got to be something better than in the middle Me and Cinderella We put it all together We can drive it home With one headlight We can drive it home With one headlight Through this maze of ugliness and greed It feels just like a beat up truck I turn the engine but the engine doesn't turn Well it smells of cheap wine and cigarettes Sometimes I think I'd like to watch it burn S 3 X Y So hot and sexy, they are on fire!

Who says Corvettes are not muscle cars? I believe all these pics are 'vintage'. The one thing that I loved about the '70s.

I came, ahem, across this ad while googling 'motor wheel spyder rim' I would like to blow Miss Muffet's doors off too. And then, she could, ahem, blow my doors off after I blow hers... But then I found out she has a....brother. I am not one to mess around with somebody else's gal. ?

^^^ Adolescent bear is a more accurate description than saying it was a baby bear. I just wanted to say (and type) baby bear. LOL. Rolls off the tongue better (and the words look better on screen). LOL Creme Brulee and/with Greek yogurt? It doesnt sound that appetizing... I wouldnt have the courage to try it. How come in Canada, we dont get those kinds of choices? I doubt that in Greece, or in any Middle Eastern country that multiple flavoured "Greek" yogurts exists either... What I find cool about that is in Greece, a small yogurt package comes with a little packet of honey on the side. And what I mean about multiple flavoured and the lack of choices is what you presented us with. Strawberry and blueberry and peach yogurt in Greek yogurt guise is available. What is not is cheesecake and creme brulee and roasted marshmellow and anything else that seems illogical to the non-American diet... LOL

Yeah...I remember this now. Its coming back to me. I think when they (management, engineering and bean counters) entered re-evaluation when they decided to nix Oldsmobile they redirected where GM needs to be heading and came to a conclusion that 'high value' transverse V6s that went into transverse FWD CUVs and cars would be the future and steered away from the Atlas and the other 'high feature' V6s they had planned 2-3-4-5 years earlier. They kept the 3.6 but a whole family of them were supposed to have been produced. But then, the high value V6s also went away when Pontiac and Saturn went away. Weird times for GM...

The comments say he made himself bigger blah blah blah. While true, it looked like that was a baby bear and well baby bears usually dont look for a fight. And while Im trying to talk a big game, I dont know how I would have reacted. Probably not as brave as this driver, but I do know one thing, had momma bear been around, no amount of making one's self bigger would have worked... Best comment goes to this gentleman though: (Im a sucker for bad puns and dad jokes!) Alan Smith 1 month ago Porch Pirates are becoming unBEARable! (pun)

Yup. I hear ya!!! I sometimes do forget. I sometimes dont. Weird how I didnt forget when the discussion a couple of pages ago was about a need for an Escalade V a decade ago... Its funny how the thought process goes. When one is passionate about a certain idea, how that passion clouts judgement...