PurdueGuy

Yes it is, it's just a series hybrid instead of a parallel hybrid. It still gets its power from two sources. GM does need to make the distinction that it is notably different from other hybrids, but it is a gasoline electric hybrid, since it uses both.

exactly. Plus, a coal power plant still is so much more efficient than a bunch of ICEs running around. Battery production seems to be an issue, but where there's money to be made, a solution will be found.

I think it will happen, maybe on time, maybe up to a year late, and I think it will be close to what they hoped for in every aspect but cost. They've already had to increase the predicted cost, and may have to do so some more. Question is whether it's going to cost too much for anyone to care, or will the greenies buy anything that has a strong "green" image. I hear a lot of everyday Joes wanting to buy the Volt when it comes out - I think they're going to be upset when it costs more than they'd hoped.

I agree. I've had a 3100 powered corsica that was great (trans went out at 180k+, would have replaced it if it hadn't broken down out of state), and a 3800 powered Regal that went well over 200k miles (unfortunately not sure how many, as the odometer only made it to about 135k miles).

In the short-term, BAS standard isn't doable, as GM has been having trouble even making very many of them available due to battery supplier issues. They should keep reducing cost and increasing reliability and performance (mpg performance mainly), and maybe someday standard BAS will make sense for them. I'm not sure I would want it forced on me, though. Remember, some people still prefer manual window cranks, as they want less things that can break. I'm sure the same applies to drivetrain technology, so making it standard too soon could be a big mistake.

I'm not saying turbos aren't at all reliable, I'm saying the simplicity of a n/a engine inherently makes it more reliable, on top of cheaper to build and repair. Every component added to an engine is another potential fail point. Turbo engines are great options, I'm just saying I'm not sold on a turbo engine being the base engine.

I'm thinking that a turbo engine should not be the base engine. In general, turbo setups are not as cheap to build as n/a, and aren't as reliable as n/a. Base engine options on economy cars should be simple, cheap, and reliable.

Saturn should be extremely cheap for GM to operate now that it's Opelized - almost zero R&D cost.

Is it wrong that at first I thought the thread title read "Who the hell is ruining Pontiac?"

Didn't someone say the Outlook would be going away in a couple years anyway? Chevy needs a lambda, because Chevy = volume and GM needs volume sales. Buick is plenty differentiated to be essentially left out of the argument. The issue is really that there are 3 lambdas that are maybe too close to each other. If the Saturn is going away, I'd say that leaves GM in a good position, as long as this segment's sales are strong. Not everyone wants a chevy, and not everyone wants to spend enough to get the Buick.

I'm quite sure there is very little DTS left in that car. The wiki article says it's on a GM 4wd platform, I'd guess it's using something other than the Northstar. Obviously it's very heavily armored, wouldn't surprise me in the least if it's prepped for things like biological attack, etc, as well.

won't paper and scissors be lonely?

My eyes are on the stats for the next gen BAS system from GM. Hope they get battery supplier issues sorted out on that front, too.

+1 for not doing a bailout, but taking measures to ensure that the competition is on a level playing field.

I don't buy new cars, so just add a bunch of zeros to all the polls.

I would, but that's like trying to forget that you feel like throwing up when you're really sick - it doesn't work too well.

If the seating on this is essentially the same as the other Lambda's, it's fine for what it is, but it's got nothing on comfort compared to the suburban. I would ride cross-country in the 3rd row of a suburban, and I'm 6ft. The Lambda's have their place, but they're not better in *every* way.

I, too, would have preferred to see (and think it might have been more fitting to see) Saturn become a Scion-like brand, continuing to have quirky small cars, and a good brand to experiment with, rather than the move upscale that has alienated many customers. I've heard many times that the current Saturn product is about the same pricing as the older with comparable options, it's just that the base model has more options, so the base price is higher. That may be, but I know a lot of customers see one thing: "they raised prices."

About a year ago, GM stated that they will not bring the current gen Corsa here, because it would require a lot of investment to make it meet various US specs. Instead, they will put the money toward developing the next gen from the start to be US compatible, and Saturn will get it. Not that GM can't change their mind about any or every one of those decisions.

Ah yes, that sounds right. I figured I could've looked it up, but felt lazy. lol Purdue was good to me, but I've heard plenty of good things about VT as well.

Lafayette, IN. Not as good as a car being built by a US company, designed in the US, and built in the US, but that plant does employ a good # of people, so it's certainly better than nothing! I was almost a teacher at an on-site facility Purdue has at SIA (Subaru Indiana A?, used to be Subaru Isuzu America, but then Isuzu left the plant, and they renamed it using the same initials. The A might still be America, not sure.) The disk brakes on the s-series were only ever on cars with ABS, so they really weren't that common, but it was still a bit of a cheapening factor. Good thing is, the rear disks can swap onto any year s-series, with or without ABS. Installed them on my '99 sc2 about a month ago.

The S-Series was completely unique to Saturn. Parts-bin parts were limited to some basic electrical parts, etc. The platform (z-body, same platform name as used for the Corvair, but completely different platform) was not shared with any other vehicles. The 1.9L engine (SOHC & DOHC, both shared the same block) and transmissions were also s-series specific. Polymer panels had been used on the Fiero before it, but other than that was pretty much unique to the car (until the Saturns that followed). 3rd door followed by the Ion QC was quite unique. The S-Series experienced tremendous sales success, but it alone was not enough to make the brand profitable. Unfortunately, there were plenty of people who hated that Saturn existed in the first place within GM, so funds were pretty much cut off. The half-hearted effort to give Saturn a midsize with the L-Series came too late, and with a product that didn't impress (electrical glitches and difficult repair & maintenance on the 3.0L is an ongoing struggle for owners). The Vue was reasonably successful, but its success was offset by the meager success of the Ion, which had ok sales, but didn't do as well as the s-series. Now many of the original Saturn customers have moved on, or just keep buying used s-series. Gone are much of the quirky PR events such as the homecomings they had in the 90's, and the stories of unique amazing dealership experiences seem to be way down as well. More commonly, the dealership experience seems to be like that of most other GM brands - a mixed bag. There are dealers to love & trust, and dealers to avoid as much as possible. So what's left? Pretty much just the no-haggle policy, which was also seemingly betrayed when dealers started jacking up the pricing on the Sky when it first came out. The Opelization of Saturn is a mixed blessing for Saturn. It gives it new product without half-heartedly redesigning them (like the L-Series), and the fact that the cars are nearly unchanged from their Euro versions means that Saturn, like GMC, has extremely low development cost to operate. HOWEVER, this also means that it would take almost no effort at all for GM to do like the last gen Olds Cutlass and one day start slapping Chevy badges on instead of Saturn badges, and call the division done. I suspect it might be like watching a loved but dying pet put out of its misery. Saturn isn't what it used to be, and it seems to be having a hard time becoming something new & meaningful. A part of me still hopes for Saturn to be something, but the core of what Saturn was and was meant to be is dead, so I'm not sure I'd be all that disappointed to see it go.

Depending on the details, I might be tempted by the Beat when it comes out.

A car club for K-cars? Sheesh. Next thing you know people will be modifying Saturns...

sounds like an unconfirmed problem so far. Maybe a link to the thread(s) in question on SF?