regfootball

damn, i was close on guessing the passat time.......CAR AND DRIVER DECEMBER 2005 CAMRY V6 0-60 IN 7.6 MY GOD IT DOES NOT GET MORE CURRENT THAN DECEMBER 2005 ISSUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when that 320 hp v8 hits the 500, yeah, then that will be nice. I'll turn in mine and get a nice new one with major balls then. Impala ss owners have no waiting! and 28 highway mpg!

you are right here. its a big flaw. but still, in spite of that, its still a great product. every product has a shortcoming. the virtues about it more than make up for the temporary inconvenience i have of having a bit less power than i really like. in fact, the power shortage is only below about 35 mph, and even then, its not a power shortage as much as its just the engine is growly. point...the car overall is still VERY GOOD....and the whole gist of this problem in the popular press and such to damn a product and company as complete and total crap and 'should go out of business' because the car does the sprint to 60 in 3 tenths of a second less than a toyota and sounds noisier. Even though the Toyota doesn't get better mileage, has less room, and has flimsier sheetmetal. my point again is the whole sensationalist aspect of modern journalism....and the fact that its over-influencing the general public! the differences between a domestic car and Camry in truth are likely not that huge enough to warrant the extreme sensationalism you will read about it. To me, when the press amplifies that, its actually misreporting. Its only sensationalizing it to create ratings. Or sell magazines. i own and aztek. yup, its UGLY. but owners LOVE them, talk to some of them. is the vehicle bad then? Not at all, owners swear by them. But the press took one aspect about them, the looks, and turned it into a poster child and smear campaign, to the point of such negative connotation it could have damaged the Pontiac brand and GM forever. But my God, the vehicle is great (pushrods and all), owners are happy. The looks and bad press killed sales. and then it got amplified to the point where its ridiculous. Does a whole company need to brought down to extinction in the court of public opinion due to journalistic excess? GM has a sale....OH MY GOD, giving people deals is BAD!!!!!!!! GM put out an ugly car....OH MY THE SKY IS FALLING! GM is having labor issues.....WE BETTER DO ALL WE CAN IN THE MEDIA TO GUARANTEE THE STOCK PRICE WILL PLUMMET. the media needs to report the news, not be the news. the topic is major capacity reduction and WHAT I AM SAYInG is part of this end result of having to close it all down is due to journalistic excess and the fact that the differences between asians and americans RIGHT NOW are marginal, if even worth discussing, and its a GODDAMN CRYING SHAME WE'VE ALLOWED THE PRESS TO FORM OUR OPINONS TO THE POINT WHERE WE WANT GM TO FAIL BECAUSE THEIR DOOR HANDLE CHROME DOESN'T SHINE AS BIRGHTLY AS A TOYOTA WHEN IN FACT IN PRoBABLY OTHERWISE COMPARES JUST FINE

i do think just recently Wagoner announced a large pay cut going forward for himself and some execs there. it was what,a amonth ago? it never got much press. Bill Ford works for free. bill doesn't wear makeup very well, in the commericals, BTW.

my local news tonight just had a piece tonight about 'what is an American car', where they basically said, well70% of your foreign cars are BUILT here. then they had the obviously liberal professor on who said to the effect of 'the future of american auto industry is toyota, honda, nissan'. it was by no means sympathetic of GM's looming job cuts...in fact, it was quite matter of fact about it. it did mention how the south is the new center of the US auto industry using new plants and non-union labor. They made no statement about how Ford or GM profit paths effect the US economy vs. funneling money to a Japanese company. No mention of currency manipulation and internal trade barriers in Japan. No mention of our companies long history and it being in jeopardy or the lives affected or the trade imbalances in the future. I'm convinced after that piece, GM is done, Ford likely too. The opinion pushers in the USA are simply going where the story creates the most drama and the US automakers are clearly on the wrong side of the coin right now. I'll try to post the link on this or some other topic, EVERYONE needs to see this piece. I guess then, as this relates to 'attention whores' (thanks, I love that term) like Michael Moore....it just sounds like he needed to get some publicity and he found the right tool to get it. I honestly haven't seen or read much about him other than that a lot of folks think he's a major ass. I put my notes together here to only say, to those who don't think the media perpetrates stereotypes.....this is a great example. Michael moore wants ON. he gets on. He says whatever he wants about GM to bludgeon them. He likely has no factual basis on anything, nor solutions on how to fix things. Just look at the open and clear path he has to further dig into GM. We didn't hear the other side of the story apparently. So, the public forms an opinion and bingo, things are now worse. the delphi saga and 30,000 jobs lost are major economical warning signs going off and the press is not even reporting that facet of it. the issues are union labor, health care, trade deficits, outsourcing, failure of American business...in addition to the consumer issues and how GM has failed as a carmaker. i dunno. i wish some place in the media would talk about the big deal this is. they are still piling on like the Enquirer wanting to break up Jen and Brad. this GM news is the tip of the iceberg. things could get real ugly here in the US real quick, yet all we see are guys like Michael Moore whining and feeding the ego.....and no discussion about what GM does contribute and how they are trying to stay afloat to keep from total collapse....and what value they bring to so many Americans. I am seeing nothing in the news yet in terms of analysis on what TOYOTA contributes to our economy, in comparison.

IMHO the Solstice and Lexus IS deserve this award far more than a stupid ugly mediocre econobox with a sega dashboard. The Solstice features big time chassis innovation, 10 star design, and an efficient development budget and process to produce a phenomenal entry. The IS, aside from passion, has out BMW'ed BMW. The 3 series is still top drawer, looks aside. the new civic has no appeal to anyone other than ricers who's 15 year old tarted up crx is finally wearing out, now that they are making more than 22,500 a year and actually have a credit card. Some magazine out there declared the Cobalt SS a better car than the Acura RSX, and I assume that Acuras are supposed to be superior to Hondas (THERE IS A SUBSTANTIVE DIFFERENCE YOU KNOW) so the Cobalt SS by virtue of that analysis is a better car than the Civic so IT SHOULD BE COTY. The Mazda3 is the far more appealing compact than the Civic. aaaantoines list lists several cars more deserving than the Civic. Boy, M/T blew this one BIG TIME and just lost an assload of cred. Honda definitely wrote the big check this time around.

MY GOD IT TOOK TEN PAGES OF POSTS TO GET TO THE ESSENCE OF IT!!!!!!!!! BINGO! EXACTLY!

man, you'd be surprised. that new passat 2.0T with tiptronic, I'd lay money down that the passat is much faster than the camry v6. I'd guess a 7.3 time for the Passat 4 cyl. from my test drive. sure in 6 months a new camry will be here, but also consider the v6 passat is balls fast as well.

Canada...OHHHH, that's right. SOMEONE has to buy all those ECHOs and YARIS'. BTW the new passat 2.0 is very quick and is a really nice car. drives wonderfully. quicker than the camry, i'd bet $$$.

hehe, kind of. funny, but not. good hard working smart folks.....that just must not fit into the cool group of hip popular culture. we leave the misfits on the cutting room floor and the type a's and hipsters and the media tell us all who's worth anything and who is not. if you want the world to think you're worth more than a bag of used and full diapers, you better drive euro or rice, apparently.

time will prove the sonata is still a poseur car that will not last much beyond 5 years. will your sonata get 5 star side imapct ratings WITHOUT its side airbags?

a bit g35ish but its so chunky

jill wagner is the mercury girl and the ad campaign featuring her is generating interest from men and women. 'good for the brand' as they say. that's why i posted her 'other' work. croc- please refer to the mercury/chick brand thread for more insight.

very nice car.

are you for real? 54+53+21 = 128 cft = more than the sonata. whose but did you pull the 12% MORE out of? :blink: hyundais number includes the trunk, buddy (58+47+16) you passed math class, right? "flattery will get you nowhere, the escort said to the 8 years newer sonata" MY POINT- why does everyone ASSUME the fried rice is always better??????????????????? GO GM, good night all watch those 07 tahoes fly out the door.......

again, do your research 500-203 hp 3754 lbs, (not 4000), 18.49 pphp, 7.9 0-60 16.3 1/4 mi 20mpg 54/53/21 space (C/Djuly 05 and mar 05) comments-'classy looks inside and out' 'the Five Hundred goes down the road with unusual precision and composure' 'ride quality is above reproach, and road manners are surprisingly capable' 'Inside, the Five Hundred is roomy, and it looks and feels terrific' camry- 190hp 3489 lbs, 18.36 pphp, 7.6 0-60 15.9 1/4 mile 20mpg 54/48/17 space (C/D 12/05) comments- "The word "responsive" just doesn't come up in any appraisal of this car." "Too AARP in its control responses" seems as though the camry has a very slight accel. advantage that is more than offset by its deficiencies.....but that is EXACTLY my point. you just assumed the toyota was better, and DIDN'T research the difference yourself, much less driveone. that's the point of my continuous harping here. you didn't even consider the chance it would be superior. compare the backseatsand you'd know the camry is deficient. ford has the camry cornered, the fusion and 500 are both better buys and solutions than the camry. The impala is better. the lacrosse is more interesting and desirable. a 4 cylinder passat is a much better car than the camry v6. sorry to steal the thread...just trying to educate someone who can't imagine a world without toyota as their leader. someone who needs to research first. and maybe drive something. people using sonatas and camrys as benchmarks for comparisons clearly are not car lovers. they are car haters looking for a solution that they don't have to interface with a car. GM's falldown AGAIN has as much to do with image and prejudice and media influence as anything. its sad that the number one spot will get taken over by a lame ass company like toyota. if GM is losing their top spot, at least it could be to some company that aren't a bunch of liars and contrarians and by SOMEONE who can at least make an interesting car. yeah, your children won't die from asthma because we sell sell a prius but hey, we won't say anything about those sequioas we sell that get 14 mpg ifyou won't. your air is clean only because you bought a prius.

[FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial] ask your wife, she'll confirm that size matters.

the cheapest i could configure an avalon to match the equipment leve on my 500 (ltr,sunroof, etc) was 3 grand more, andthe avalon still did not have memory seats. id have SAB, but if i added 500 bucks to the ocst of my car it would still be a 2500 deficit, otherwise each may have an odd option or two that did not match. I look at the Impala SS for around 28g transaction price and it lacks some options of the Avalon, but the avalon is ugly. why spend more for ugly?

the sonata is ugly and looks like a bloated 98 escort. it does have more power, but they are already having engine issues with that car. the 500 has outstanding steering feel and a great firm ride with very good bump control. its eerily quiet at times on the road. its built damn solid and has a level of refinement that has been prised by owners and critiques alike. you can easily (if you had driven one) imagine the 500 feeling composed at speeds of 100+ mph all day. the interior of the sonata made me gag. its an ugly piece of crap the media is putting up on a throne. i cannot imagine wanting to be seen in a posuer brand sedan that pretty much telegraphs to the world that you are a cheap ass and have no desire to own anything besides a cut rate product. The sonata reminds me of selling a car at a 'dollar store'. The LaCrosse and Impala are much more desirable cars IMHO than the Sonata. seriously, you want a car that will last more than 3 years, right? then don't get the sonata! If you are going to get a Sonata, just skip it and get the Altima, Accord or Camry you really feel you should have. The Sonata is a forgettable piece. there is nothing about the sonata that is stylish, or instills a desire to own. Please use a real example next time. I swear, if that's the best you can do, I'll send the folks from the looney bin over to pick you up. The Impala is a far more desirable car than the tin can sonata. they should be seeling sonatas at walmart, that's the environment those pos's belong in. the fusion makes the sonata dated already and the sonata just came out.

do your research, the 500 offers nav, as well as dvd entertainment

you still don't get it i WAS shopping midsizers galant g6 grand prix mazda 6 impala the nissan brothers 06 passat i got more room for the same price by looking at a full sizer. sometimes folks don't limit their scope so much. just because the 500 was classified as a full sizer, doesn't mean i ruled it out. i was looking at 'what can one get, for x price'. the value equation. i would bet many other folks broaden their view of the world too. unless you're a camry or accord buyer, then you only seemingly have 2 choices. why would i buy a camry when i could either spend 28 grand on a v6 camry or 28 grand on a nice impala ss or i could get an 06 passat 2.0t with a few options or a GXP GP or even a slightly used GXP Bonne or a galant GTS or a well equipped basic maxima i am only using my example as a scenario that others use. sometimes you don't limit yourself to predefined classes the media dreams up for you. of course, who am i kidding, most Americans are pretty dumb and can't reason for themselves when it comes to car shopping. i know lots of folks that go in looking at pickups and get SUV's or crossovers. etc. some geek where i work has new Jetti GLI they likely blew 28 grand on. cute car ,er, corolla, i say.

the fusion is a great drive, but i wanted the much additional space the 500 has. the fusion v6 was not significantly faster than the 500. but it was much smaller inside.

base 500 SE's were 20 grand when i was shopping. try to find a camry 6 cylinder for that.

i guess if you aren't in those groups, you're a big phuq-qing loser....if you believe what advertising tells you and all the cultural mavens in the world.

the 500's interior is pretty nice, i would not call the camry superior. the 500's engine is kinda growly at times, and could use more torque, but the camry is no powerhouse either.