balthazar

>>"judge the car on its own merits instead of how it stacks up to the Pontiacs from your favorite era. "<< Even tho I obviously do favor vintage design from Pontiac's peak, I have not directly compared the G8 to either older pontiacs, nor Holdens- only to current non-Pontiacs and suggested there is definite Pontiac DNA that the G8 lacks. ocnblu: nah- I didn't draw it- I'm a bit out of practice at this point. It's not my dream Pontiac, but you would never mistake it for an acura or nissan. Is that really too much to ask for??

Just a quickie sketch, but the brand ID is none other even tho it is thoroughly modern:

I generally avoid these personal types of subjects, but if the above is near verbatum... dude; she knows.

Fine- but any chance you might consider "doesn't float my boat" instead of the clenched-fist 'heavy Fisher-Price, econo-grade interior' knock??? We're tryin' to pull for the 'bu, here, and besides, descriptors like that only whip turbo200 into a wild-eyed frenzy. :wink:

Well, that's pretty damned bad. I guess the 'dash rips off and slams into passenger's head' was hyperbole, not fact. Still, I've had more than enough evidence with all sorts of chinese-manufactured goods to vow to never buy anything as complicated as a vehicle, nevermind something with moving parts.

I agree: horribly plastic-icky and gross... it blows chunks. "GM still doesn't get it".

Whaa- the Astro & Blazer's dashes detached & ripped the front passenger's heads off, yet still passed federal regs and made it to production?? Really?? >>"when the dashboard flies through the interior of the car to the back seat, it does so at face height "<<

What's also true; that exterior-wise they share windshields, roof panels (tho not C-pillars) & doors... and that's it? Of course these are based off the same frame and underbody from the same parent corporation, but you could not casually change the Chevelle's grille interior and emblem and pass it off as a.... Torino. Look, most of you young squirts are only used to '90s Pontiacs, and in comparison there the G8 is very welcome. But it is not a rejuvination to the degree Cadillac has rejuvinated itself. In the '60s Pontiac lead the segment, esp stylistically: hidden taillamps, stacked headlights, Coke-bottle fuselages, hidden wipers and antenna, minimal-trim exteriors- all these features were widely copied soon after. The G8 is nearly a copy already- there will be no emulation... tho that's what Pontiac could use a grand shot of (beyond the Solstice's contribution). This is what many of you guys clamour for: not merely matching the competition, but blowing them away. I'm still standing here....

Alrightthen- allow me to perform the EXACT same tweaks: Yup- I'm convinced- bottom car is a Cadillac. Disregard everything I posted above.

Do you have a shot of the underside bracing? Most of the strength in this type of hood is in the vertical edge & the substructure. If both those are good/repaired (and you lube the hinges well), the surface sheetmetal will be fine structurally.

IMO- if the metal on the surface of the hood is torn, you have to grind it out beyond that and reweld it of course down the vertical edge. If the sheetmetal beyond any tear is bent, you will have a hard time getting it perfect again. It may be easier to use another hood...

Las thing I read was that the $474M verdict was overruled and was again pending in court. J Howard Marshall's son died in the past year or 2 or 3, but his family has vowed to fight any further attempts to 're-win' the money by Smith. Where that may go now that she has died, who knows- but from what I read- she didn't have the money.

Sorry BV- there's loads more heritage to reap than a hood decal- a diligent student of Pontiac would know that. I disagree with you and most others here- and you are reading far too much into the G8 vs. recent other Pontiacs than is there. Let's look at the 1st gen CTS in comparison- if you laid out a fender or trunklid or hood on the ground, and you knew cars to a degree, you could likely name the car the parts belong to; because every piece is pretty unique- and assembled into a unique vehicle. The G8 front shot I tweaked in photoshop in 5 minutes obviously can pass as another corporation's make. I considered putting a mazda emblem in, in fact- another brand at least one other mentioned in this thread. What dissenters such as ocn & I are asking for is MORE; more Pontiac and more individuality. Pushing aside the re-clipped Commodore scenario- that is still something to strive for: true individualistic brand identity. It's just not in the G8. At Pontiac's peak, every line worked and emulation followed- there is nothing here to follow because it's mid-pack as it is. We have the CTS, the Enclave, the Solstice, the Outlook, the Acadia, the Malibu... this isn't quite in the same class, unfortunately. Again: I hope I'm wrong and it sells like free sex, but it sure isn't speaking to this 7-time Pontiac owner like the CTS spoke to this 0-time Cadillac owner. No tailfins or screaming chickens in my past, either.

No one involved is willing to go thru 4 million owner's maintenance records- it's a class-action suit. At the very least, toyoda will settle, at the worst (for TMC)- they will stubbornly continue to blame their clients and pay a whole lot more. Clearly there's an issue here beyond maintenance; toyota will end up paying... the question is how much.

Mr Krinkle- you do see what I did, right? I-i-it's the same car, man. Anyone.... is this screen on? Point is- there is very little 'Pontiac' design language in the G8- the 'acura'-ization shows how close the G8 is to too many other vehicles, and how far it needed to go to be a modern, rejuvinated 'Pontiac'. Not saying it's not nice; am saying it's not enough. Would consider buying on as is, want more. Heritage unrealized.

That's the construction of the garment, not to mention 'it's getting a bit high there... but yeah...

God- FOXNews is beating this to death- live-reading e-mail opinions from Joe Blow via the web, and absolutely grilling their remote reporter with such desparate questions as did he know what drugs were administered in the OR for Smith (how the F would he know that!?!?). But the telltale fact was in response to their 'set the scene for us, remote reporter guy- what's happening outside the hospital? How is the memorial going?'... and he had to tell them there was no body there- no fans, no well-wishers, no memorial, NOT A SOUL outside the hospital. It's a non-story, but the FOX anchors asked 7 follow-up questions. Edward R Murrow just rolled over in his grave and projectile-vomited (worms & dust, mainly).

So hyundai is not receiving any leeway for their recent products, based on the vast majority of their horrendous manufacturing history? We're getting full-on, glib-n-snide, overwrought articles repeatedly hawking back to the accent and the pony, coloring all reviewed-vehicle traits with cautionary tales from the Way Back Machine? Oh good- I was under the impression the media has forgiven & forgotten how wretchedly wretched hyundai's reputation is.

Eliminate the scoops & un-split the grille: Uh-oh. ocnblu, I'm still with you.

Acura still head & shoulders above the rest of the brands around here as far as housing terrible drivers- mostly by driving maddingly-well below the flow of traffic. Must be dozing off. Still 2nd on my observation list- BMW drivers who daydream they're in F1. If you could only add the 2 brands and divide by 2- you'd get tolerable drivers.

BTW- I got a different read on the title of this thread, and was already thinking:

>>"Yeah, I wonder what happened to razoredge...he could be really annoying with his constant negativity, but definitely added some flavor.. "<< 'Negativity' is all about which side of the fence one's standing on. Razor was absent for a while, but has been around sporadically in the past 2 months.. but now he seems 'gone' again. I have no one in particular I miss, tho I do miss Plumcrazy's art- some really good dream stuff.

Does your theory work for hyundai, too?? Will it come into play with mercedes, VW and land rover soon?

My dad retired a few years ago, but prior did a lot of work on the F-22's engines as a DOD aerospace engineer.

Lots of debate on both issues. I know Rocket 88 well and it does not particularly strike me as 'rock-n-roll' nor innovative. Likewise, tho the 88 was unquestionably hotter than many others, it does not stand as head-n-shoulders above the crowd as the Chrysler 300, which gets my vote, tho both were actively raced & rodded.