Z-06

Alright, let us get our heads together.

Great input Turbo. I am not looking US market only. I am looking to be a US manufacturer. Markets in east are far more volume oriented. US sales will be gravy.

I want to start an American sports bike company with 250cc, 600cc, 1000cc and a hyper bike. Just like BMW dominated with its solid 1000RR efforts in the liter class.

Shreveport closes this year. And Wentzville indeed gets C/C twins for 2013.

Agreed. GM is building better, but everyone in the market is building better. GM convincing the naysayers will be their biggest challenge. And on luxury cars the badge matters, sometimes more than the car behind it. Nope, if that was the case Lexus would not have had foothold and now stronghold in USA. Perceptions, Perceptions, Perceptions. Lexus did go from nothing to top selling luxury car in the USA in about 10 years, and hold that spot for 8 years or so. They are still number 3 with weak product, just because they have a badge. Lexus's problem is Mercedes and BMW have a better badge on the hood. So Lexus convinced people to buy its cars in droves in only ten years (compared to 110 years Mercedes had). It ensured that it kept those people to buy cars on its badge rather than the car behind it and you call it a failure? You say from time to time people buy Lexus because of its badge. Aren't you contradicting yourself?

Complete agreement there. A real solid effort and impressive effort from GM for the ATS. GM used to get 80% right before, in this car it got 95% right that 5% improvement can put GM on top; something that is not hard to do given GM's capability. Given all the how people were talking about how HEAVY ATS platform was going to be and how GM is having features creep for the platform, GM surprised many. I guarantee you GM will not win comparo against BMW because of nitpicking about bezels diameter and Gotta Have it Factor, but the car has done it right.

Agreed. GM is building better, but everyone in the market is building better. GM convincing the naysayers will be their biggest challenge. And on luxury cars the badge matters, sometimes more than the car behind it. Nope, if that was the case Lexus would not have had foothold and now stronghold in USA. Perceptions, Perceptions, Perceptions.

20 years ago I would have agreed that making 7% of production Manual in a non V would have been a good Idea. But in this day and age where a Ferrari is rare with a gated shifter and Porsche has forgone the Air Cooled Boxer to make SUV's and become more profitable than ever I can not so easily agree. The few Air Cooled purist have adapted to the water cooled car and only a very few cling to the past. Porsche and most others have learned that catering to the low volume purist is nice but in this say and age profits are what keep the company open and new product coming vs the 7%. Now on a V series where the voulme may be closer to 15%-20% by all means have at the Manual. But for the 2.5 and non turbo V6 the volume is much too low. Anyone wanting performance would buy the Turbo 4 or coming 6 anyways and they both will have it. The bottom line this car will do just as well with no manual 2.5 or non turbo V6 in the big picture. Save the money to certify the 2.5 to add more goods to the TT V series where the manual will matter. I reread the January review of the M3 and AMG. The ATS V should have a good shot as they liked a lot on both cars and hated a lot on both. One had power the other had handlng. If GM can give both they should had a trump card. The only thing I hope is that the new CTS gets a boost with the new V as the ATS should prove to be a very good car in V trim and I hope they don't steal sales from the CTSV. Todays MFG's can no longer just cater to the fringe as there is little profit. They all are doing it and it just evens the game up for all. The fringe may lose out on some fun combo's but that is life. Too often the performance fans micro manage things at times that is good but when you split hairs on a non performance sedan for less than 10% of sales that is a little too focused. Save it for the V. It is about perceptions not sales. GM needs to change perceptions. It should strive in perceiving people that it is indeed making cars that people want. Germans apply the Rommel strategy. In Egypt Rommel used to take his few tanks and run circles around the streets in the city he was occupying. Allied forces thought his strength was much more than his piddly tank numbers, which made them scared from attacking him. BMW, Mercedes, Audi bring best in US when they are fleet whores in Europe and have lowly and anemic engines. Magazines rave about their products as second coming of Christ, talk about how some glorified greener grass products on the Continent don't make to States and just as snake charmers charm the herd to sing their same tune.

Then get it, be happy with it and drive it and stop micro-whining about GM products since regardless of what GM does it is not going to give you an orgasm.

Okay Fair enough. Cadillac Escalade 2wd with ~48,000 miles and with Ultra Luxury, package (retailed for $67,000) can be had CPO for $37,000 that is much less depreciation than the S class. I was arguing about how "valuable" smk perceives the S Class.

Again no disagreement there. GM is building much better cars, but it is the failure to convey that perception is missing from GM. And when GM misses that opportunity it just sickens me that all those executives have not learned their lessons. After E46 and may be just may be E92, the BMW group has lost it. Quality sucks, driveability sucks, design is same, the entire store looks staid, boring and vanilla cars filled for higher herds. My E46 seems much better built than the F10, I noticed when I was at the service bay the other day.

SMK, you just proved my point. And to answer your comment, yeah, that's why according to your metrics - sales - the 7 series has outsold the S class so far in 2012. And that is why a 2008 S600 with a price tag of 143,000 is now a CPO for $59,000 at a dealer in Melbourne, FL. My 2008 CPO Z06 depreciated far less than that and it is just a Chevy with no legendary-ness or used as a benchmark and is beaten by everyone.

It will be interesting to see what people actually think about these cars after they own them for a couple of years. I think word on the street (I.e. knowing someone who owns a Cadillac and likes it) will ultimately win Cadillac a lot of sales. You are correct about people owning the GMs will be ultimately won by the car. It is people like smk who don't want GM and who GM is concentrating on as customers for this car should not have problems with the car. For them, they will sit with spec sheets, put information on Excel and compare every nano second, seat position, speakers, leather softness to the incumbent's. GM wants to cater to these customers then it should know what those customers like to do.

Hyper you are missing the point. Cadillac made it as a no excuse car. Reviews are the ones they should be worried about. Forget the fact that BMW does not have any manual transmission cars on the dealer lots, it is the publicity which BMW puts on its cars. Tense now relax later approach is better for a newcomer when topping an incumbent. Sales wise it will not make sense, but publicity wise GM has lost the battle as people are already crowing about 3.6. Another example of how media is taken seriously. MT reports 4.7 sec time for the 335i and 5.7 sec fo the ATS 3.6. What it fails to tell is the conditions under which ATS was tested were not controlled. Poseurs are proclaiming how the 3.6 should be compared to the A4 and the 328i. Like Olds mentioned thin/thick pillars, steering wheels are holding by thread excuses, omission of manual transmission is not.

Disagree with both of you on that count. Bigger engine and manual transmission are not and should not be mutually exclusive. In fact the take rate of manual transmissions in a 335i is more than its take rate in 328i. It is the 328i that is the poseur machine. Manual take rate in 3er is more like 12% which is more than industry average take rate of 6.5%. G37 is another car that offers manual transmission with the bigger engine. Cadillac touted at the release of the car on the 20th floor that all trims will have manual transmission (Reuss said it and you and I were present there) till it backtracked in the actual autoshow. Remember the AWD is also available on the 2.0T so the premise of 3.6 geared for AWD and hence no manual transmission for the engine is not bulletproof.

I think GM produces GMT 900s/vans in five plants. Arlington Assembly Flint Truck Assembly Fort Wayne Assembly Silao - Possibly South American Demand Wentzville

How imaginative of you Nissan.

Good. Now time for S Class humpers to be worried about.

The only glaring omission, if you are trying to topple the top competitor, is the lack of manual transmission on all the models as BMW has it. Given it is a SPORTS sedan. Otherwise the car has hit its mark much to the chargin of the BMW devotees. Denial and resistance is first phase of acceptance. I personally would have preferred a turbocharged lineup. But once GM's new small engine family comes in we may see a 1.6T/1.8T replacing the 2.5. But then again old GM reared its ugly head in engine choices. If Regal can get two variants of the 2.0T why did not the ATS.

Congrats. How does the Jeep look parked in the lake of Xs and Bowties?

Johnson Matthey is the only company as far as I know that makes the palladium based catalysts currently used for diesel particulate emissions. The company has extensive relationship with Cummins (Chrysler) and GE. GM and Ford realised with the price of palladium rising not to invest into the technology with one manufacturer and shifted to urea. The decision is more political than efficient system in use.

Certification purposes. A vehicle introduced in US in different powertrain must be tested for safety standards. So a 330i automatic and manual transmission vehicles should be tested individually not lumped together. Given how pathetic manual transmission rate is in this country, BMW is realizing it is not worth keeping its ultimate driving machine status anymore. Look at X1 and X3, both are offered with manual transmissions outside this country, not here.

Overall execution is not bad for a small car. Let us see if this will take Opel out of the dump. Is this new Gamma or based on old Corsa platform or a sub Gamma?

You mean just like Audis, Bentleys and Porsches are? Audi interiors are top notch, and their cars offer good fuel efficiency considering how quick some of them are. Porshce 911 Turbo S 0-60 in 2.7 seconds and 25 mpg, and Bentley is Bentley. There is no mishmash of mediocre parts in those cars. They have Lamborghini and Bugatti too, that group of brands is pretty good. Where as Lexus is all Toyota has, and most of the Lexus line is mechanically a twin to a Toyota product. Personally I don't care for Audi, Porsche or Bentley, but they are not parts bin junk for $35-45k like most Japanese and American luxury brands try to build. You mean just like a 25K VW GTI doesn't share the engine with a 50K Audi A5? You mean how a Phaeton doesn't share its components with a Bentley? You mean how the Tuareg is not based on the same platform with Cayenne and Q7? Should the list go on?

You mean just like Audis, Bentleys and Porsches are?