smk4565

I sort of forgot the Kicks was still around.  I think the Soul, Versa and Mirage are due to be discontinued in 2024.

Also if Tesla really does deliver on a sub $30,000 car that has a point of sale $7500 credit, I think a $22,500 Tesla will sell in ridiculous volume when you look at some of these cars are about that price.

This thing is way dated by now.  The Ford strategy to cancel minivans and sedans because they can't compete with the Asians now seems to be transferring to crossovers, as Ecosport and Edge are gone and the Escape is next.  Seems like they just want to make Broncos and pickup trucks.

$42k to start, no thanks.  The old Traverse/Enclave/Acadia with the 3.6 are known to not be reliable, I don't know if this will be any better.  But what I do know is the Highlander and Grand Highlander will be more reliable and either of those or a Telluride or Palisade is a better option than the Chevy/GMC or Ford Explorer for that matter. 

Point being that the Compass is a ripoff at anything in the $35-45k range.  A loaded up Kia Seltos is about $32k.    At $45k we are talking Lexus/Audi compact crossover money.

22 hours ago, David said:

A big chunk of folks are already priced out as the average income required to buy a new auto is now @ $94,282

This Is the Salary You Need To Afford a New Car in Your State | GOBankingRates

You can see the specific wage for your state, but your state is over $95K and almost $97K in my state.

Yeah that is kind of nuts that you need to make $100k a year to afford a new car.

I think it looks good, and much better than the last one, so credit to the design team.  A $5,000 jump is a lot, but starting at $33k and topping out around $50k isn't too bad considering you can spend $35-40k pretty easily on a smaller size class CRV or Ford Escape.  

They had to get some separation from the Tucson, so if this drives well and is built well, and isn't just good looks, this could be well worth the price.  The only downside is it is another example of every car is going up market and getting expensive, at some point they will price so many people out.

13 minutes ago, David said:

True, but at the price point which one would you like to own is how i see it.

You can actually price a Compass Limited well over $45k without even going to a Trailhawk.  But here is the problem with the Compass in one screen shot with similar equipment and features:

34 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Compass sales have cratered because they've jacked the price way up. Pick any options on the base model besides color, and you're instantly catapulted into a Latitude and to about $32k. Another thousand dollars gets you into a vastly superior Honda CR-V EX AWD.  The Compass isn't a bad vehicle, but it doesn't have the room or interior to go up against the big players in the segment. They also lease horribly.  Who's paying $548 a month for a 48-month lease on a Compass with $3k down?

They'll use the poor sales as an excuse to cancel it.  An EV replacement for the Cherokee is coming, but it will get a new name and, I'm sure, a hefty new price tag.

The Compass is smaller than a Honda HRV or Chevy Trax/Trailblazer, and the same size as a Mazda CX-30 or Kia Seltos.   The Cherokee before they killed it was actually about the size of the Rav4 and CRV.   That makes the price even more not worth it, I haven't driven a Compass or a Seltos, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Seltos or CX-30 were better and they cost like $5,000 less.

Jeep is a mess outside of the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee, and really Stellantis is a mess outside of the Ram 1500, the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee.  

Fiat - Gone

Alfa - sales disaster

Chrysler - 1 minivan that is dated

Dodge - 1 Alfa Romeo that is overpriced and built on the same disaster platform of the Compass, and a 13 year old Durango on 17 year old Daimler platform

Maserati - even greater sales disaster

Ram - killed the Promaster City, Promaster is the worst van of the full sizers

The whole thing is a mess.

40 minutes ago, David said:

@Drew Dowdell did mention that Jeep seems to be wanting to move up scale into the luxury market. Makes me wonder who will service the bottom end. Kia?

Kia is also moving up market, dropping the Rio, K5, the Soul is dying too.  They want you to buy Tellurides and EV's for $55k.

They are all moving up market because they think there is an endless amount of people that can afford $55k new cars, but there aren't.

Tesla if they really deliver on the sub $30k compact crossover before tax credit will take massive market share since by then people won't be able to afford Kias and Mazdas anymore.

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

No one cares about 0-60 anymore. Fast enough is fast enough. If you want speed, trade in the horse and buggy and get an EV. 

So they should have stuck with the turbo 4?  And invested in EV's rather than an inline 6?

1 hour ago, David said:

All the past buyers were heavy 2wd, 4 banger models. They killed off all the entry level so getting these folks to then move up the ladder to better equipped 4x4 models is gone. 

I think the American brands are not getting much love by the Stellantis European overlords.

Well if they kill the Compass next and make the Grand Cherokee the "entry level" Jeep, they are in real trouble.  

6 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

This is a Japanese-reliability, low-maintenance BMW X3 clone. Look at it next to an X3 interior and I think you'll see they nailed it.

Except the CX-70 wheelbase is longer than a BMW X7 or a Chevy Traverse.  This is a 202 inch long vehicle that only seats 5.  I don't get the point of making a CX-90 with 2 less seats.  Why spend the R&D and marketing and certification budget to just cannibalize sales you are already getting with the CX-90?

I appreciate Mazda making rear drive, inline six, the long hood and short overhang rear like a German car.  If you want performance that is the formula to follow.  Although the other mystery to me is how a 3.3 liter turbo 6 makes 280 hp when any garden variety NA V6 from 10 years ago was making over 300 hp.   The 340 hp variant should be the base tune, and if they were even going to have a high output they should be making 440 hp easily.  

If they really want to take on BMW they better step their game up, but I think no one is cross shopping a BMW and a Mazda, and Mazda's quest to go up market is probably just going to accelerate their demise since they are way behind on the EV game and they don't have the money to really get into it.  Who is really buying $60,000 CX-90s?  Go buy a Lexus for less money if you want reliablity and resale value.  

5 hours ago, David said:

This I think will be successful for them, sadly tall people will hit their head as I see the interior picture from the driver's side showing the open passenger side door shows that continuation of the Komodo Dragon racked windshield design that big people hit their head on much like Tesla. Little upper head room to get in as I do not know many who get in with a perfectly straight back into the chair.

Be interesting to see in person and try once they are on the lots.

You can see it now, go drive a CX-90 and remove the 3rd row seat.  LOL

I can see the new advertisement now:  "The all-new Wagoneer S, now with more Chevy Blazer!"

It is hard to tell what Jeep is doing with their whole brand.  Sales are down about 36% since 2019, and they just killed the Renegade so they'll probably drop more.  The Gladiators are like $10,000 off now since no one wants them, and no one wants the Wagoneer either because it is way overpriced.  

I think it is good to go EV for these because delivery vans that make the same route every day and are that predictable in mileage are a good case for EV's.  They should also stop delivering on Saturdays, that is just a waste of labor cost and gasoline on the current vehicles.  The Grumman LLV's get like 16 or 17 mpg despite being a 2.2 lier 4 cylinder or whatever they have.

I wonder if there will be a big surplus auction to sell off the 190,000 LLV's?  

Ford has zero quality control.

I wonder how long this knobby tires and plastic body cladding like it's a 90s Pontiac Montana minivan will continue?  Everyone does it, Subaru Wilderness, Kia X-pro, Ford Timberline, Honda Trailsport, etc.  And none of those crap can go off road, nor are the people that guy these going to try.

Also sick of headlights in the bumper and running lights up on the hood.  Why not just make one headlamp assembly and cut manufacturing cost and cut repair costs?  For example, if you have a front end impact with a Hyundai Tucson, because you have 4 light assemblies, 2 of which are over $1000 and 2 are over $1500, you are looking at $5,000 just for lamps, on a Subaru Forrester you'd pay less than $2,000.

Otherwise I find all these small crossovers boring, they all look the same, have the same features, the same mini displacement turbo 3 or 4 cylinder engine, etc.  Yawn.

That's a good time for a crossover but some gas crossovers are faster, and the Model S Plaid and Taycn are like in the 7:20s I think.    But for a crossover like vehicle 7:49 is a strong time.

In a level 5 self driving car all this tech is great, but I also wonder if we get to level 5 self driving pods, will people even use any of this or just sit on their phones and text, scroll instagram/Facebook and watch YouTube videos on their phones and not care about any of this, in the same way people do that on buses and airplanes now.  At least this is all OTA update, because that is a problem with most cars today, if they can't continually update software, they fall behind the tech on your iPhone.

I do hope in this quest for AI and software, they don't forget horsepower, steering, suspension tuning, brakes and the stuff that makes a good driving car.  Also I'd be more impressed if they said they are switching all their cars to a 48 volt electrical system and having wi-fi controlled items like windows, power seat controls etc, and could eliminate half the computer chips and 200 lbs worth of wiring that current cars have.  Because weight is the enemy to handling, acceleration, braking, EV range, etc.  

Yeah the $48,000 average is still really high.  EV tax credit will help in 2024, but there still need to be cheaper EV's and not just $80,000 pick ups and $100,000 sedans.  And more options are coming, I saw Hyundai is working on a $22,000 Ioniq 2, we know Tesla is working on a low priced car.  Once you have EV's with MSRP's under $30k that aren't the size of Mini from the 60s then I think the EV sales will take off.

6 hours ago, David said:

E450, S500 all terrible names as it is alphabetized soup and no warmth, meaning, etc. as real names, at least Cadillac has returned to names. FAILURE MERCEDES, FAILURE YOU trying to bad mouth New Cadillac Names over alphabetized mess of naming from Mercedes your favorite brand versus GM, what some have said is my favorite brand.

Mercedes is now just catching up with untested new 800V technology. GM Ultium was built as an 800V architecture and GM has already stated they are moving to updated versions as they start to ramp up EV production for 2025. No old tech, but ahead of the Germans.

Also to quote @surreal1272 who hit the nail on the Head!!!!

He is right, no matter GM, Mercedes, Tesla, they are all heavy compared to ICE, the density of Solid state batteries is where weight savings will come into play as well as moving to lite weight materials that is starting to play a bigger role in the auto making process along with 3D printing.

Mercedes has had basically the same naming structure for 50 years, S-class has been around 50 years, G-wagon and E-class around 45 years, etc.  Consistency is good.  Also the model name isn't as important as the Mercedes-Benz brand name is.  Similar to Tesla, the brand is what matters, not the model.  Brands with lesser image need to rely more on model names.

As far as weight goes, a Tesla Model Y is 4,154 to 4,555 lbs.  A Cadillac XT5 which is close in size is 3,915 to 4,338.  Yes EV's are heavier, but they don't need to be 6,000 lbs.

6 hours ago, David said:

Mercedes is worse, stupid naming system rather than actual names, EVs are too bloody heavy, slow and not competitive with what others are building. Only badge snobs are buying, and I see a ton of Mercedes EVs and vans sitting on the lots here compared to Hyundai, Kia and Genesis is selling everything they make. 

Maybe the Germans and Americans need to look at the way Koreans are building as the Japanese are falling behind both Germans and Americans.

The EQ naming is going away after this generation, because the next Generation of S-class, E-class etc will only be electric and there will be no ICE version, thus you can jus have E450 or S500, etc.  Mercedes executives have even said they aren't keeping the EQ naming structure.  And the Mercedes EV's are too heavy, but their next generation tech is due for 2025 model year, and the electric CLA is targeting a 400+ mile range and 800 volt architecture.  

The current EQ cars (although they beat their EPA estimates in range) are behind what Tesla has in terms of range and performance and the EQ cars are too expensive when an ICE E-class is cheaper with better interior and better styling.  But as I said, the 400 volt batteries and the current motors are all getting replaced in 2025 with a new generation.  GM on the other hand is going to be ramping up Ultium for 2025 model year when it is old tech.

Cadillac used to be all into cutting weight, and bragged about their sub 4,000 lb full size CT6, I bet the Vistiq is over 6,000 lbs for a vehicle smaller than a CT6.

Best to buy a Cybertruck.

The naming scheme is stupid, but whatever.  The issue I see is the Lyriq is near MDX or XT6 size already but is only a 2 row.  So this is just bigger and heavier, and Ultium products are already too heavy to begin with.  If they can engineer weight out of this and boost efficiency then they could have a solid vehicle.

Why does BYD need a dealership?  They can just sell direct like Tesla does.
 

The other issue is VW, GM and others are getting clobbered in China where they used to do a lot of volume.  Once they lose that market, GM has no European business and VW has a small American business.  Their economies of scale are getting hit.

These guys underestimated Toyota and Honda in the 70s and 80s, underestimated Hyundai and Kia in the 2000s, they better not underestimate the Chinese EV’s because they’ll figure it out and they’ll win on price.  To Cadillac or Audi buyers it may not matter but to Chevy and VW buyers it will.

5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Not that Chevy-level materials are fantastic, but they're a complete league better than what BYD is doing.

I've noticing a lot of this recently where the press pictures look great, but when you sit in the car, it looks and feels cheap even if there's lots of gee-wiz lights and pageantry to distract you.  The Ioniq 6 is worse in person than its pictures (particularly the center console), the EQ-Benzes don't live up to anywhere close to their brand name,  Tesla is abysmal,  the Cadillac Lyriq is meh in person but their pictures aren't great either, Escalade EQ meets expectations. Toyota interior materials are a letdown across the board.  Jaguar/Land Rover have mid-range VW interiors unless you're spending money for Autobiography models. Genesis, Telluride/Palisade, and most Buicks are better than you might expect. 

As for your argument that people will buy Chinese cars because they bought Japanese and Korean cars... I think you are correct on this, but it will be 25 years before they're where the Koreans are today.

I think it is more like 10 years.  BYD will probably be the largest car company in the world by 2030, I'd be worried about them if I were any legacy OEM that operated in Asia.