smk4565

I know Toyota has some built in advantages thanks to the Japanese government, but the Detroit 3 just have to compete with that. If the Detroit 3 weren't paying $75 an hour to employees, maybe they could. What product will GM kick ass with in 3 years? They cut annual R&D spending to about $5 billion or perhaps less. Toyota spends $8 billion a year, over 3 years that is a $9 billion dollar gap. GM has to get ahead of the curve for a change, and unless they spend about $10 billion a year, they won't.

Toyota has a very long term point of view, as do many Japanese companies. Many Japanese will work for one company their entire life, where as in the U.S. we tend to have 5-7 career changes, and we are more short term focused than they are. Toyota wouldn't mind 3-5 bad years after a Detroit collapse, if they know that in 2020 or 2030 they will be strong. Toyota has kept quiet, if they thought they were in trouble long term, they would have said something by now. I also wonder what GM's plan to pay back this $25 billion loan will be?

335d averages 30 mpg, 10 more than a CTS or 335i, it more than makes up for the higher cost of diesel. That is Cobalt mileage on a car faster than a CTS DI. They'll bring in some new buyers, GM fans are just jealous that there isn't a 30 mpg CTS on sale right now. The 3-series outsold the following last month: Cobalt G6 entire Buick brand entire Saturn brand CTS, DTS, STS, XLR combined If BMW can make one car charge $45k for it, and outsell 5 combined Saturns that sell for half as much, who has the better business plan?

Even with $25 billion to GM, by December 2009 they will be bankrupt again. All it does is delay bankruptcy until a time the economy is hopefully doing better and the impact of them going under won't be as bad. The problem is not whether or not they get a bailout (I am sure they will) but what they actually do with it. Wagoner and clan will screw it up. If they don't change their business model, come 2010-2011 perhaps Toyota will buy them and change it for them.

Canadian? $50-64,000 in US dollars, which I think is a good deal, incredible interior.

Toyota will gain the most, they'll by far be the #1 automaker, and they can source parts from around the world, and drive down supplier costs like Wal-Mart does. Toyota could rise to 35% market share if GM and Ford collapse, and they have the cash to buy any factories or assets of other companies.

The engine has 425 lb-ft of torque, and their manual can't handle that, unless they use the SMG 7-speed, which is an option few people would buy since manuals aren't that popular here. The 335d is supposed to save $700 a year compared to the 335i, plus it gives off far less CO2 emissions. I'd rather have a Jaguar XF over any car on the market right now. I am looking forward to the XF based coupe and convertible and new XJ that are coming also. Moltar is right, that GM bet the farm on SUVs, they stopped work on Zeta and some car projects to rush the Silverado and Tahoe to market. One reason why the Camaro still isn't for sale. Toyota and Honda made profit on every small car they sold, plus profit on their trucks, regardless of which way the market went they were diversified. Putting your money in 30 stocks and mutual funds makes more sense than putting it all in 2 or 3.

Apparently, a lot of people can afford it, the 3-series easily outsold the Cobalt or G6 last month. The 335d costs the same as a CTS, do only rich jerks buy the CTS? Will Cadillac's whole customer base lose everything? Plus the 335d will have a tax credit of $1200-1800 (hasn't been decided yet) and it costs about $700 less per year to fuel than a CTS. I would agree that many people can't afford luxury cars, but then why did GM bank on GMT900 and Lambda full size SUVs that are $30-50,000, or Hummers and Escalades, while ignoring cars. They never made real threats to the Civic, Corolla, Jetta, Mini, Prius, etc. The Malibu is as close as they have come to the Camry/Accord, but it is only selling half the volume, and they really lagged in that segment in 2002-2006. GM management made bad decisions. The UAW refused to make concessions for years, thinking that $73 an hour (including benefits) was a reasonable wage for an auto worker, while Toyota and other manufacturers pay half that. Detroit News once interviewed a Delphi forklift operator that makes $103,000 a year, when the national average for that job is $26,000. Why should my tax dollars go to paying a forklift operator $100k a year. The UAW and GM brought this upon themselves, it is no one else's fault but their own. That being said, I believe they need and will get bailout money, and I am fine with that because the loss of 1-2 million jobs would damage the economy even more. But if they don't change their business model, GM will require government aid EVERY YEAR.

It's a Cadillac, it is supposed to be expensive. Charge $120,000 for it, Lexus gets that for their dumb 20 mpg hybrid. I agree on people not planning ahead. People wanted big SUVs and houses they couldn't afford and now they are paying for it, I don't feel sorry for people that were irresponsible and are paying for it now. Although I wish people were more responsible and didn't rack up credit card debt or default on home loans to weaken the economy.

335d on sale soon for $44,900 (and tax credit eligible). Faster than a DI CTS, costs the same, 10 mpg better.

Agree with all. The Cobalt was thought to be the savior in 2004. I know GM needs a bailout, and I believe that they will get one, and the original $25 billion for the Detroit 3 will be increased to $50 billion. (I wonder the Gov't has to borrow that from China?) My question is, what will GM do with the bailout money to fix their problems, and will they be successful. I have little faith in Rick, Lutz, and Co. to actually pull this off.

Hyundai developing an 8-speed is an example of them trying to innovate, when they offer a 400 hp V8 and 8-speed tranny for CTS or MKS money, Hyundai is going to win over buyers they used to not get. GM needs to constantly innovate so they don't fall behind, and attract new customers. I am not being silly, integrated computer would be easy, the 7-series has in car internet and Chrysler is doing that also. They could incorporate on-board diagnostics with that so you don't need to go to a dealer to pull a check engine code. BMW has a car that gets 36 mpg highway and does 0-60 in 5.7 seconds. If Cadillac had some innovation and entrepreneurial spirit, they could easily do something faster and more powerful than a CTS that got well over 30 mpg. Make an aluminum and carbon fiber car with hybrid and diesel or HCCI engine tech, turbos and 8 gears. It is possible to engineer a 30+ mpg, sub 5-second 0-60 car. Just like 300 miles on a single battery charge is possible, Tesla already has 200 mile range, GM can't beat a little start-up in California?

Sales are down 45% this year compared to 2007, I didn't make that up, it was on CNBC today. CTS coupe was delayed 1 year to a 2011 model, as were the 9-4x and 9-5. Buick LaCrosse was delayed to mid-late 2009. The GLK and Q5 will beat the SRX to market, and that segment is already over crowded. Epsilon II Malibu was delayed also, and they don't have replacements in line for the Impala, STS, DTS, Lucerne. GM always says "the new product is coming" "just wait til next year." Problem is, everyone else has new products coming also, the competition doesn't stand still. The Genesis is getting an 8-speed transmission in 2010 or 2011, is the CTS? GM said the Sky, Aura, Astra would turn around Saturn, they didn't. They said the CTS, G8, Malibu and Lambda trio were going to be class leading and turn things around, and they didn't. Those products are better than what they replaced, but not revolutionary. GM needs revolutionary products to turn it around, and that takes big time R&D dollars which unfortunately they don't have. I want to see GM on top again, I want to see a 400 hp Cadillac that gets over 30 mpg, a Malibu so good they sell 500,000 a year, and an electric car as fast as a CTS that goes 300 miles on a single charge. A car with an integrated computer and glove box keyboard so traveling business people can surf the internet, type reports or compose email from the passenger seat. The iPhone can do it, why can't a car. How about an e-flex SUV with a solar roof that charges itself in the parking lot, or can power the house when parked in the driveway in the summer.

A challenge all American industries face is creating jobs you can't outsource. If a person in China can assemble a car just as well as a person in Detroit and does it for 1/4th the pay, companies will build the car in China. Detroit has to find a way to out innovate Japan and China, build something they can't build and make it better than they can. Make a Volt that goes 300 miles instead of 40, or the same body gap tolerances of a CTS into a Cobalt, or a two-mode hybrid Cruze that gets 70 mpg, or a CTS with an 8-speed transmission and bio-diesel engine. Detroit and any other American person or business has to compete with the whole world, and there is a lot of talent and competition emerging from all over right now.

That could all be gone, under chapter 11, they can tear up every contract they had for labor and suppliers. You say GM is turning it around, but they have lost $73 billion over the past 4 years and this is the worst year, they haven't hit the bottom yet. How are they turning it around, sales are down 45% this year, and they are burning nearly $2 billion a month in cash. Furthermore, they had to cut R&D spending and delay new models, so if the economy does rebound, come 2010/2011 they'll have dated products while other automakers have new ones. They are in crisis mode, not turnaround mode. Can't only blame the economy either, because VW, Toyota, Honda aren't facing bankruptcy. Blame it on the business model that only is adequate under flourishing economic conditions.

Chapter 11 is their way out of the UAW deal that costs them $2000 more per car. To me this is their best path, combined with government aid. If they just take the bailout money, but continue to burn $2 billion a month, in December 2009 they will be out of money again.

No, they can file chapter 11 bankruptcy which allows them to reorganize, gets the creditors off their backs and would allow them to redo labor contracts. They would stay in business throughout the process, and a federal court would oversee the bankruptcy. If they file Chapter 7 bankruptcy, they liquidate everything and close down. Chapter 11 would be any of the Detroit 3's path. GM will be the first one to run out of money, Ford can survive 2009, GM could be out of money by January.

The 370Z is officially 332 hp and has a 7-speed automatic. So that would top the Hyundai and the V6 Camaro and V8 Mustang.

Chrysler makes the Avenger and Sebring, that is true junk. Ford has the Ranger and Town Car, GM has the Impala, G5, Trailblazer (although they did a good job getting rid of the grand prix, minivans, etc). They all still have some junk that only rental car agencies want to buy, and even the Malibu and CTS need big incentives to sell. The past hurts them because those customers that left and went to Honda/Toyota aren't coming back no matter what GM and Ford makes. I know that Ford quality is tied with Honda and Toyota, but most people don't and even if they do, they hold a grudge from being screwed over in the past. Even worse, is it is mainly the baby-boomer crowd that has money that won't consider domestics. My mom is one of them, she won't consider any GM product, even at 50% off, she was screwed in the past and won't go back.

They could learn how to build and install windmills, solar panels and hydro electric generators. They could be trained to do other kinds of infrastructure projects like power lines or repairing bridges. Toyota can hire some of them as well. The steel industry in Pittsburgh was before I was born, but this city was dependent on steel like Detroit is on cars, now we don't have a steel industry (aside from US Steel headquarters), yet the local economy is fine, even better than most other parts of the country. I agree that GM needs a bailout, but this is going to b a one shot deal. If they burn $2 billion a month in cash in 2009, and use up all the government money, they'll just go bankrupt in 2010 and there won't be a second bailout to save them. The bailout will be there, but it is what GM does with it that matters, I fear they will just go about business as usual like they have for the past 4 years.

GM has $32 billion in debt and owes $7 billion to the VEBA fund in 2010. If (when) the bailout comes, $25 billion is going to buy one year of life, especially since some of it has to go toward updating factories and building "green" cars. It will get them to 2010, and get the health care burden off their back, and maybe the cash burn slows by then. They could become stable in 2010. At this point, what if Toyota buys them? Toyota can buy the entire Big 3 if they wanted, but they are such a mess and riddled with debt they are worthless. If GM gets a big bailout and all those debts wiped out, it opens the door for Toyota to buy them for $5 billion or so and take over. Then in effect, the government would have written a $25 billion check to Toyota. (the government would have to take control of GM stock to prevent this)

The Detroit 3 and the UAW dug their own grave. In the 70s and 80s they built junk, cashed in, and didn't see the Japanese as a threat. They continue to be mismanaged today; Wagoner (making $15 million a year) has overseen a $73 billion loss since 2004. The economy wasn't that bad in 2004-2006 yet GM lost tons of money. Detroit has been stubborn with big egos and entitlement philosophy for 50+ years, this is the wake up call they needed. They need new management, the current crew can't turn this ship around. All three won't go bust, they will just downsize, so the Michigan economy may take a hit, but it won't be devastated. Perhaps though some of the bailout money should go to laid off workers, and in retraining them to do new jobs in business segments that have a brighter future than the American auto industry. Even if they did go bust, at some point the car market will rise back to 15+ million units a year, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc will have to hire more employees to build that many cars, and jobs will be recreated, just not at UAW wages.

$73 billion in losses since 2004. No one is responsible for GM's downfall except GM. This has been coming for 4 years, and they did nothing to protect against it. The union stayed greedy and labor costs are too high, GM keep rebadging with the Epsilons, Lambdas, G5, Torrent, etc and they focused on big SUVs, and forgot about cars. They used the same business model that didn't work in the 70s, didn't work in the 80s, didn't work in the 90s, didn't work in the 2000s, and now it has caught up to them. This is exactly the wake up call GM needs to get them to shed unnecessary brands, redo the UAW contract, and eliminate excess capacity, employees, dealerships, etc. I predict that they file for bankruptcy, but they won't go out of business. Circuit City filed for bankruptcy, they still have stores open and people shop there. They'll get another $25 billion from the government, but if they screw that up, I highly doubt there will be a second bailout next year, they better get it right on the first try. The slippery slope of bailouts, is where does the government stop? Do they bail out airlines, DHL (who just laid off 9,500 people), Circuit City, Starbucks, or other struggling retailers?

Ahh the problems of Buick summed up in one line. 30% off the sticker price. If they were challenging Lexus, or even Honda, they wouldn't have to price cut like that. The average transaction price on a Civic is $19,200, is a Lucerne V8 only $2500 better than a Civic? Where are the fog lights on that Lucerne?

Worldwide, Toyota beats GM in sales volume, but sales volume is irrelevant. PROFIT is all that matters in this case. Toyota makes profit, GM, Ford and Chrysler do not. If they give GM $20 billion in cash, this time next year GM will be bankrupt again and looking for more money. If they don't stop burning $2 billion a month in cash, a bailout doesn't do anything but buy them a few more months. The best thing for GM is chapter 11 bankruptcy with government aid to get them through it. It is their only path to survival, and the GM that comes out of the restructuring would have to look very different from the GM of today.