smk4565

GM's brands have to go because they can't afford to fund them or provide them with competitive product. It would take over $10 billion a year in R&D to do so and they spend close to 5. Mitsubishi is terrible, but they aren't about to go bankrupt. GM's brands aren't an asset, they are a liability at this point, because they are redundant and underfunded and compete against each other. Procter and Gamble and General Mills aren't going bankrupt either, so they get to keep their brands. The economy was not this bad in 2005 and GM lost money, wasn't this bad in 2006, GM lost money, was bad, but not this bad in 2007, GM lost money. Toyota in this economy will make at least $5 billion in profit this year. They don't need a bailout. If GM can't make money in a down economy, they shouldn't exist. They need a radical change to change their business model, probably 30% of their workforce and dealers will lose their jobs, but 30% loss is better than 100% loss.

I hope they do get rid of the leaf spring, a 600 hp light weight GT-R is coming. If the GT-R is only 5 seconds behind the ZR-1 on the Nurburgring now, 120 hp and 200 fewer pounds will easily make that up and then some. The Lotus Elise SC or a Lotus Exige get better mileage than a Corvette and match it in 0-60 and beat it in handling and braking. I think the Corvette is a good car, they have 90% of the performance of a Ferrari at 30% the price so that is saying something. Although the Vette interior leaves much to be desired, the car has great performance bang for buck value. GM performance's real problem is stuff like the G8 that is overweight and needs a 6 liter engine to make 360 hp. There are V6s with 330 hp, and 4.2-4.6 liter V8s making 375+ hp.

I don't blame the government, only GM. Toyota isn't crying that they need a bailout, they are on pace to make a $5 billion profit this year. GM still hasn't announced a plan on how to make money again. The government shouldn't give them money until they have a reorganization plan.

$3.27 a share now. Even if the government gives them $25 billion, they will burn through that cash in 1 year and be in exactly the same situation this time next year. Congress knows this and won't just give them $25 billion without some proof that GM can reorganize their business to make profit. They haven't made profit in 4 years, the 8 brand strategy is killing them, are are the union and dealer network.

$3.42 a share as of 2:30 pm. Down 21% today. Analysts today released a price target of $0-1. I predict bankruptcy in January. If there is a government bailout it will have strings attached, like new management, new business model, and lots of restructuring, part of which may be bankruptcy.

They can go to Germany and hire one of two dozen AMG or M guys to replace him. I think Heinricy did an admirable job with what he had to work with, but it isn't like he brought a V10, V12 or 7 or 8-speed transmission to GM or any great weight reducing technology. The CTS-V for example is 300 pounds heavier than an M5 and already has a $2000 cash back offer on it. Hyundai even has an 8-speed transmission coming in 2010. GM has some good bang for the buck performance cars like the Camaro, but mots of their performance products suffer from having the same rental grade interior as the base model vehicles do. They do performance better than Ford, Toyota or Honda, but still lag behind the Europeans.

Maybe the new guy will make a performance car with a DOHC engine, rather than modified engines from the Silverado.

2006 Camry base models with 4 cylinder and gray cloth sell for about $17,000 around here. Those are like $23,000 new, that is good resale. An 06 CTS 3.6 that was over $35,000 new goes for $20,000, that is not good resale. I know all cars lose value when they go off the lot, but BMW, Honda and Toyota hold value well compared to GM's offerings. Personally, I think the Camry sucks, but they sell in big numbers and hold their value.

Tanking resale values is what would keep me from buying any GM car new. 2006 Cadillacs go for near $20k, why spend $45k on a new one? Or why buy a new Malibu when a 2 year old Cadillac is the same price. Bankruptcy reorganization wouldn't deter me really but resale and quality of product would. Problem GM has, is it is impossible to make best in class products with great reliability without money. I think bankruptcy is coming, and Rick keeps saying it absolutely isn't an option and they won't consider it. I think in Rick's mind, 8 brands and doing the same old thing they did the past 10 years will eventually lead to a different result. They are stubborn and have zero think outside the box ability. The worst part about the whole thing is a year ago people predicted this would happen, GM denied it, now it is 100 days away, GM still denies it, and they have no plan. I put in another thread, that Toyota buying them and killing off most of the brands but keeping about 60% of the company going is probably the best they could hope for. 60% is better than 0%, if I were Wagoner I'd be begging Toyota for help at this point.

Nope, because many of their products are still out of date, or have poor resale values and consumers are going away from GM. I think the only thing that can save GM is Toyota. Toyota has the money to buy them, shut down half (or more of) the brands, lay off 30-40% of the workforce and manage them the right way. GM would get ripped to shreds in the process, but 60% of GM surviving is better than 0% surviving.

The G-platform is fine, (i've got one) but it isn't as good as any rear drive $40k plus car and that is the problem (modern car, not the Town Car). 4-speeds and 275 hp doesn't cut it anymore either. The DeVille/DTS's time was 1995-2005. A Genesis gives you more content/features, better warranty, better engine, better chassis, better transmission, better performance, better fuel economy for less money. When Cadillac has fallen behind Hyundai, it is truly a sad time at GM. It looks like the DTS will be around a while though, since there is no money to make a replacement, and the CTS coupe is delayed 2 more years.

They have $16.2 billion in cash right now, and need 11-14 to operate, so about $4 billion left. Wagoner said the cash burn will slow down, but even if it does, come February 1, 2009 they are probably bankrupt. Maybe Toyota can buy them, and spare Chevy, Cadillac, and a few jobs.

I don't see government help coming unless GM first sells off whatever they can, takes whatever loans they can, gets union concessions, and has a plan to change their business model. The gov't won't loan them $20 billion so they can burn through it and be in the same situation a year later. They only have 100-120 days of cash left also, come February they could be done. Their best hope at this point is probably if Toyota buys them and spares 2-3 brands and maybe half the workforce. But I don't think Toyota wants them.

They will be bankrupt by February, they might as well just do it now and get some government help for the displaced workers, restructure the whole business model, dump the union, and dump at least 4 brands. They'll be a small company with 12-15% market share, but it is all they can hope for at this point. For years they insisted on needed 8 brands and rebadging lackluster cars to keep those brands with line-ups, now they are paying for it.

Seems like it will offer pretty good performance (for a V6 car) but it shouldn't be called Genesis coupe. They shouldn't use a name twice and they can't' position the Genesis as a luxury car competitor if there is a $25k college kid coupe with the same name.

Bankruptcy time. They just burned another $6.9 billion in the 3rd quarter. The cash burn is no longer $1 billion a month, it is now $2.3. By early-middle of next year they will be out of money, if they declare bankruptcy, and can get rid of the union, and can get government help, they could come back as Chevy-Buick-Cadillac and hold 15% market share probably and at least make a profit. Not the ideal situation and a lot of jobs will be lost, but they didn't take measures years ago to prevent this, this is their best option now.

My guess is layoffs, closing almost all the factories for "winter vacation" in December, and more of the same old cost cutting they've done in the past. Typical GM of trying to cure the symptoms and not the disease. I hope they address the real problem of too many models/too many brands, too big a dealer network, and union employees that are paid too much compared to Toyota/Honda workers.

It better be real change, and not the "rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic" crap they have been doing with the "new" G3 and Traverse or financing that fits and red tag sales. Rebadging and discounts is how they got into the mess, and they are still doing it. This is staggering: "GM's sales in the United States are down 20.3 percent this year and the automaker has lost approximately $70 billion since 2004." Toyota has made $59 billion in profit since then, that is a $130 billion difference! GM at this point probably has to declare bankruptcy, get rid of the union, get new management, and start over from scratch with 3-4 brands.

Cadillac also can't match those leases because Cadillacs depreciate much faster than BMWs. Am 06 year old 3-series could still fetch $27-30,000 while an 06 CTS is worth under $20k.

Then families need to not buy the loaded LTZ awd model, or get a used car, or not buy an SUV. Also, GM better find a way to make money on cars and not SUVs. They are addicted to SUVs because they can jack the price up on them, now that the SUV bubble burst, and cars sell, GM is screwed. Why aren't they selling 30,000 Malibus a month to families? Why doesn't GM have a minivan to sell to families?

Not good enough, and the Tundra and Sequoia already have 6-speed automatics, the 09 Silverado still has a 4-speed. The Malibu sold 10,000 units in October, the Enclave 2,200 (down 47%). Toyota and Ford have all new 4-cylinders for 2009, and they have 6-speeds also (Toyota 4-cyl/6-speed only on Venza), GM has no advantage here. GM has played the offer a cheap plastic interior with pushrod/4-speed combo and sell it at a lower price than Honda or Toyota for years and it has led them to disaster. They need to do better than the 08 Malibu and CTS on 100% of their product lineup and start selling stuff at MSRP, and not having to rely on margin eroding employee pricing.

The Accord has been a Car and Driver 10 best for 20+ years in a row, it is a good car, with great resale value. Personally I wouldn't buy one, but it fits the needs of many buyers and is better executed than most other, if not all, family sedans. The other question is why don't GM cars have a solid reputation to sell on? GM spent too many years selling the discount, rather than building a reputation of superior product, now they are kind of screwed.

Then why was GM down more than anyone else? If the Malibu were great, they would have sold more than 10,000 of them. If the CTS were really great, they would have sold more than 4,000. The 3-series sold 9,000 (almost as many as the Malibu!). Good products still sell. GMAC not having financing hurts too; I bet a lot of people that got turned down at the GM dealership were able to get a car loan at the Toyota dealership.

The 80 mpg prius rumor was with nickel batteries, but I don't believe it. 50-55 mpg I'd believe, but the Insight is supposed to get over 60 mpg. Fusion hybrid at 38 mpg city really blows away the Malibu Hybrid at 27 mpg or whatever it gets. GM is missing some markets like minivan, "green" vehicles, compact luxury car, yet they have a lot of redundant full size SUVs and front drive mid-sizers.

Maybe they should build a better car, rather than having to give 15% off year round to get sales. I don't think this sale will help much, except on Malibus, CTS, Lambdas which are kind of new and competitive, and maybe on Cobalts just because they will be dirt cheap. Some of GM's product is so dated and undesirable, people don't want it at any price, and the fear of the company going bankrupt probably makes people second guess buying a GM car. I think this will help with volume, maybe make November a 30% loss rather than a 45% decline, but I don't think it will make them any more profit, which is what they need.