FUTURE_OF_GM

Wow... What a pointless, piece of $h! article. The whole reason it was typed (In the whole 5 minutes it took to read C&G and type it) was to hype Toyota and throw mud at GM. Geo WAS a part of Chevrolet, as it had a CHEVROLET bowtie on it. Scion is a seperate entity from Toyota; different emblem, different clientele, different purpose and different demographics/marketing. Of course, it's not like any of this $h! matters anyway because 1) Nobody beyond enthusiasts and executives cares and 2) I'm sure our FINE, self-loathing fellow country-yuppies will hoist Toyota to the top next year ANYWAY. So what's the point?

Never believe anything you hear on the net until GM or Lutz confirms it. Which means that all the going around this board and others could be just that: BS I would like to have some concrete answers as well... As far as I know, nothing major has happened to any of the Zeta vehicles except GMX-551, which in and of itself could be a MARKET decision (*GASP!* It's future was NEVER locked in and the Impala was NEVER set as RWD for sure) and not even CAFE related. Just like I'm sure the North* will be replaced with a better V8 and not V6's. I'm sure we'll get all the answers we need beginning here in about a week or so.

:rotflmao:

MINE: Because, as always, there truly is a lack of choice this year. This guy gets my interest... I haven't researched him though. I predict this man will be the next president... I also predict that I will not be voting for him. I could maybe go for Edwards... Maybe. F*ck that! It'd be a cold day in hell before I vote for Gore. LOL... Yeah right. I've always been a fan of McCain and I might end up voting for him if he gets the nod.

Dual exhaust on a hybrid?!?!? GASP! Better hide that extra tip before the green patrol starts bitching.

I agree and disagree... For instance, my family has a truck and we need it for our livestock and camper. (FWIW, most of the time we drive more fuel efficient cars though) I'd hate to see a gas tax that limits our lifestyle, because, well that'd make life not worth living for a lot of us.

That was all fine and dandy until GM decided Cadillac didn't need it's own platform. Sigma was, and still is, an EXCELLENT idea for Cadillac. However, apparently the days of Cadillac exclusive platforms are over now that Zeta was/is the primary bearer of Cadillacs. THEREFORE, Cadillac as much as I hate to say it, does not need to develop the basic platforms that underpin multiple division or they will be too costly and complex. P.S. If Zeta really is dead, then where does that leave Cadillac in the near future? Or is Zeta just dead for anything beneath the supposed Standard Of the World?

Where the heck has Fly been?!?! I've noticed his absence and wondered if I should bring it up or not.

I don't think we will see Cadillac developing Alpha for a variety of reasons; many of which you have already pointed out. But the biggest reason is that Cadillac has already tried, and essentially failed, to make a NA RWD platform with Sigma. And the reasons were, as you stated, cost. Sigma is a dead duck after the current CTS (Unless the cancellation of Zeta has changed things) and wasn't a very successful venture as far as I can see. Originally, the rumor/plan was that GMNA would develop Sigma into it's volume divisions but couldn't do it for obvious 'cost' concerns. Therefore, if GM assigns the lead on Alpha to Cadillac, then they're as ignorant as they were in the late 90's (which means they're completely clueless) Pontiac and Cadillac are perfect candidates for Alpha, especially Pontiac. The only reason I can see Chevrolet getting the platform (Other than sheer ignorance) is the death of Zeta. If Zeta dies and the Camaro is all that remains of it, then GM can develop an Alpha next gen Camaro and shed the platform. Of course, that would probably assume that Zeta dies at Pontiac as well, which means IMO, Pontiac would be as good as dead division-wise. Chevrolet should get an Alpha, but not for North America. It seems that the "global product leveraging" that GM harped so much about looks as if it IS NOT to be used efficiently if all of the above takes place. There is no reason both Zeta and Alpha can't exist in NA and around the world with SPECIFIC markets and divisions. GM would be foolish not to leverage the TREMENDOUS assets it has in ALL of it's various divisions. We've already squandered Oldsmobile out of stupidity. And FWIW, until about 3-5 years ago (The current product cycle) Opel wasn't anything more than a division of junk that had been MILKED of all profitability by the previous GM brass. The entire GME operation was losing money LONG before GMNA began to bleed out. While I am very pleased at how GME is doing, it would be very unwise on GMNA's part to hand over the reigns to an operation that hasn't even shown any long-term stability as of yet.

Hmmm.... Hyundai seems to think the opposite. The market might shrink for V8 and large sedans, but I doubt it'll ever disappear. as for RWD; what exactly does that have to do with anything? (CAFE-wise)

+1

They can on the weekends!

LMAO!!! I knew that was coming... And I probably deserved it. But at least I'm not as bad as I used to be. *shrugs* I was addicted to the "anger high" for a long time, and I still love it. But I have learned to take a breath once in a while.

I do.. Josh actually does a really good job of posting a wide array of GM news. (Something we used to do here)

I'd like to attach a '$h! shovelin' bill to that proposal. Because it's gettin' deep out there and somebody's gotta clean it up... Oh, wait, that might contradict your immigration policy above.

HOW 'BOUT THAT HONDA DEALERSHIP EXPERIENCE/SERVICE?!?!!? Typical, spoiled, whiney assed Honda driver. Sue happy, ignorant and 'offended' over something trivial. Maybe he should've slapped some sense into the bitch.

LOL... This is about killing the american auto industry and nothing else. And, as a result of the patchwork, I don't think it'll ever pass. The patchwork will create too much hassle for the feds.

Umm... Zeta was dead in 2005... THAT version, anyway. (And it still is dead) And... Since when does sharing a platform account for badge engineering? Once again, this thread, like many here is nothing more than a ploy to get everyone up in arms. Wagoner and Lutz (and even Forster) are good leaders and I know Wagoner regrets phasing out Olds and would be hard pressed to phase out another division. If we were going to see another phase out, we would've seen it when GM's revenues collapsed. Numerous sources have indicated that all of GM's divisions currently have a future. Not to mention, GM is probably too cash straped right now to even phase out a division if they wanted to. Pontiac seems to be more popular with the youth than any of GM's divisions (Just like in the 90's -- the more things change...) OF COURSE one of the reasons the divisions were consolidated was in case one needed to be phased out. BUT GM is too desperate to save it's sliding share to forfeit Pontiac's sales IMO (Like they did with Olds --- stupid move, I know) Buick is fine as long as China keeps going like it is. As for Saturn... Well, they're turn around ALREADY hasn't been as rosy as GM planned. I have a hard time thinking they'll be able to extend their appeal to those of us left that Pontiac appeals to both enthusiast and non. I'll stop there, because we've all long enough. P.S. Why, exactly, does a member with the word Pontiac in his screen name seem to hate the division so much? I've always known of the hatred, but never known why.

Spot-on... Somehow I think GM is smart enough to know this and, as usual, we enthusiasts only know half of the story. (At this point)

Even Ep II?!?! That makes me very sad.... Just when things become perfect for GM and Detroit, an outside force has to go and screw everything up again.

The same thing that happens to all "insiders" that blog, for the most part (*cough, evok, cough*) ,it becomes a powertrip. I personally have nothing against PCS, and I find him funny a lot of time. But, hell, who knows if half of the stuff he says is even true or not. I know if I were an insider, I wouldn't risk my job by letting everyone know what was ACTUALLY going on.

The article is written by Anita Lienert... 'nuff said. I think the switch to LSx power is probably a positive move AS LONG AS it does have a DOHC set up or is at least technologically superior to Chevrolet versions. IMHO, the LSx is already a MUCH better product than the North*. Now, that might not have been the case with this new engine.... But 320hp? C'mon... The LS1 was pulling that 6 or 7 years ago. Maybe they could even carry over the name if it's still a DOHC set up (Which it looks like it will be, and I certainly hope it is)

Yep, Zeta is about corporate bull$h!, not so much CAFE. (Just like, I'm willing to bet the first cancellation of it was) I'm ok with a FWD or AWD Impala. But to deprive us of a Camaro and Pontiac/Buick entries is not good IMO. That is; unless Alpha can fit a V8 I never have denied that oil will increase in price and demand. However, I do not think we will continue to see such instability (spikes/lows) in the price because it simply isn't sustainable. If the price begins to level off and increase steadiy, which I think it will, then we can adjust naturally. The activity right now is about 40% bull$h! and 60% fact and if it continues that route, then we will enter worse financial times and the demand will decrease anyway. No disagreement here... And, if it meant the survival of this country, then I'd absolutely go to war with China for oil. As has always been my tactic; if throats have to be cut for my survival, then throats (friend or foe) shall be cut. The point of my post was; instead of freaking out about this, like EVERYONE including me -- to an extent, seems to be doing, why don't we focus on meeting the challenge and maintaining our driving tastes.

I think there is a lot of talking and overreacting going on around the net about CAFE killing this and CAFE killing that. It seems that a lot of executives might be playing to politics. If this is the agreement we got, then it sounds pretty positive and pretty attainable. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...0621/1014/rss13 Maybe I'm remiss, but I just don't see why everyone is so upset at this point. We can continue to engineer our way to this goal, that is, *IF* it isn't revised in the first place (which by the wording of the article, sounds like it might happen down the road) A FEW NOTES: 1) Don't even bring up the oil at $100/barrel crap, because 1) we have ways to make cars (yes, even V8s) more efficient. Hell, they don't even have to run on gasoline. I'm not living in denial, I just don't want the price gouging, that will sooner or later stop, (through intervention or crashing the market) to be the focus of this topic. 2) I am NOT changing my views about CAFE. But, I think a lot of people are being a bit too dramatic and negative about the situation 3) We need a level headed and multi faceted approach to this. *** I just would really like to know/seperate the BS talk from the reality of the situation. What exactly is reality and what is just 'talk' on the part of both Congress and the industry?

Which makes perfect sense now... Instead of having a Northstar that makes marginally more power than a V6, yet slurps more gas. It appears GM is going to cover the lower middle of the market with the more efficient and just as powerful V6 and have a larger, maybe more exclusive V8 at the top... I can live with that. I don't think every car has to have a V8, but I do still want to have the choice of buying one and I do still want it to be attainable.