FUTURE_OF_GM

I think he's about 50% fact. The rest is take it or leave it.

Any Pontiacs? (G8 ST or Eps II G6) I'm not sure of the timing on the Eps II G6.

Oh no... I'm losing my seat at the front of the class... Well... I know the cars (Zeta --some of them) were promised to the unions. But I still don't see how that would affect an Alpha F6, unless GM does bring the Zeta rpogram into NA capacity and has no room to build an Alpha F6 (Which I doubt) I mean, the greedy bastards at the unions CERTAINLY aren't going to turn down NA built product regardless of what it is. OR another Scenario could be increased small car production (To play by CAFE rules, it must be built here) that might bump the program. Hell, for all intents and purposes, the F6 could probably hitch a ride on NG Kappa just as easily.

Sure, a Zeta based Camaro might only last 3-4 years. But that was already a given. Besides that, I don't really see what it has to do with anything.

www.notgonnahappen.com This could be a first strike by Holden against you. Luck is already on their side with as much as they export in relation to GME as well as their assumed higher place among the GM empire. (Hell, they practiclly control China -- the soon to be #1 market) Maybe we're seeing a Reuss/Forster showdown. So far, it looks like Reuss is mobilizing better. TICK TOCK :AH-HA_wink:

That's what I'm hoping for... It seems that GME might just be doing us a favor if all the chips fall into place. The possibilities are endless... Chevrolet Camaro and/or Nova, Pontiac G6 and/or Firebird, Buick Skylark, a cohesive Cadillac line, etc.

Umm.. Supplemental production is "Daewoo falling under GME's spell" Looks to me like GMDAT is actually making inroads into GME territory since your operations aren't efficient enough to stand alone. Beware GMDAT... If they get a foothold in Europe, the next step is introducing models that compete with Opels. And I seem to remember a little bird saying that Chevrolet is the global brand, not Opel. Nothing like dining with the emperor, then stealing his knife and cutting his throat.

LOL, now I know you're just talking $h!. I know some of the Camaro guys and they'd never go down without a fight. Expect to see an F6 on your precious Alpha platform, I'm willing to bet the business case is already being pitched.

LOL, don't forget about Saturn/Opel... So, by then we'll have the choice of Daewoo junk (Chevrolet) Cadillacs that are too expensive for 85% of us to afford and the adrogenous Saturn. Welp, I'll not drive a Daewoo and I'm not an effeminate euro-pussy so that rules out Saturn/Opel. Looks like Ford is my new number 1! What an EXCELLENT plan! And, FWIW, the Saturn 'turnaround' has been far from the explosive success that everyone predicted. That should be an indication right there that what's good for the limeys isn't always good for the yanks.

My guesses: 1) I'm willing to bet that the waters have been muddy for longer than we know. Maybe it has something to do with Opel bailing on the Zeta based Insignia a few years back. 2) I think Cadillac now wants Alpha and GME would LOVE to have a successful Cadillac line up. (Alpha would presumably be smaller) 3) Control of GM... With the increasing percentage of GM cars sold outside of America, maybe GME thinks it should lead the corporation now. 4) Increased business for their home room. If Zeta is replaced by Eps II, then that's a lot more work for GME. 5) Just plain 'ole professional jealousy... Holden is (was) the sweetheart of GMNA and Opel was, well, junk until about 5 years ago. I'm not sure about PCS. I mean, I respect the guy, but for all we know he could be some middle management dude who has nothing to do with the decision making. (Much like evok, except not) Maybe he just harbors preferences, and right now the cards are going his way. Eps II. Not to mention Saab has gotten the sh*t end of the stick for what, 10 years now? I honestly don't think it's at that point... I think the leadership at GM is far too smart to allow this level of politics to play into their plans. Sure, it's political, but I don't think it'll get that out of hand. I agree... But what goes around, comes around. Let PCS and his crew europeanize GMNA, then watch it fall flat on it's face while Toyota and Ford eat GM's lunch. And they will, mark my words. Toyota is still a HUGE threat that will take the truck and luxury market from GM in a second if they can. And Ford is very focused, at this time, on offering the consumer exactly what they want on the car side.

I was always fond of the GranSport

The ST is a no brainer here... The wagon was questionable. Sure, small inexpensive wagons sell but larger wagons, especially sporty ones, seem to fall off the map. If the internal studies are showing otherwise, it's because someone is effing with the results. But, that's okay because when GM fails in the market, our sweet revenge will be seeing all of those white collar assholes in the unemployment lines.

Technology like this is what will let us have our cake and eat it too. That is unless GME hides the cake from us in the first place. Maybe we should declare war on Europe... What the hell, I'll sign up!

Meh... If it does come to fruition, maybe we could se a Zeta Impala a few more years down the road. Or maybe it could be called something different if a FWD Impala comes online. The other option would be to either kill the Impala for a few years or let the W-Body soldier on for another 3 years.

Awesome! I've always wanted to go and my goal is to one day buy a car there. A guy I used to know had a huge museum of classic cars and would go every year to buy/sell. He moved a few years ago though, so I've kinda lost touch.

Freakin' sweet!

It's the countdown until everything we love is gone (Pontiac, Holden and Zeta)

I really see no reason to phase out any division, especially the only division that supposedly ONLY sells cars. And I know everyone keeps saying "this happened before" that's all well and good, but I really don't feel like waiting 20 years for cars I want to buy to be available again (which I doubt they will be, if we abandon excitement now, it will never come back) DCX and Ford have both committed to RWD. GM can survive this, but forcing cars that aren't desireable on the public won't work. If the public wants an appliance, they'll just save the trouble and buy from the companies that sell appliances.

That leads me to believe that GME has been whining about Zeta for a long time. It's just too bad that the hybrid option is the better way to skin the cat anyway.

Wow... Looks like an Opel. Oh wait, isn't this what you guys build over there?

He's probably mum because it's set to drop at one of the auto shows. I still don't think Zeta is completely down and out... Show me the OFFICIAL cancellations and then I'll believe you.

Hmmm... Looks like Holden/Zeta isn't going to go down without a fight! And what year does that line up with again? What is: 2011 FTW?!?!?! ON A RELATED NOTE: So, word on the street is that GM LOCKED diesels out of Zeta... Maybe that's why they are effing with everything so much. How could they be so stupid?!? The same source says that GMNA was very resistant to Zeta and RWD in the first place, so it looks more political than anything. If that's the case and GMNA ends up like GME, then f*ck 'em. I hope they have fun burning in their own crash.

So, if that's the case and Chevrolet really does have a desire to go to Oz then why couldn't Holden be repositioned into that slot. Holden essentially is Buick in China for all intents and purposes and it apparently already has a somewhat limited buyer base in Oz. (Much to my surprise still) Then you could have Chevrolet with affordable crap, Holden could occupy the middle ground and Cadillac could be th range topper. Hummer and Saab probably won't even pull enough volume for the anyone to notice. And if anyone at GM has a problem with that, then they should definitley have a problem with Vauxhall as well. An eye for an eye.

I'm sure this is just dreaming, but how much bearing does that have on a RWD Impala? Is it just a slip of the tongue, or is it a hint at a more efficient RWD model? (I doubt it is, but I figured I'd throw it out there) This is from a reliable source on Camaroz28.com: It seems as though there was a program and it's sad that it isn't happening... This could've been our GTO. But this does shed some light on how other factors are contributing to the demise of Zeta as much, if not more, than CAFE (Despite how it's spun) AND: Nice to see that Zeta didn't break the bank... Too bad the same can't be said of the N* replacement.

LOL. It was all "hypothetical"