FUTURE_OF_GM

Comments by GuionM on cz28.com: (I think they hold a lot of weight) So, essentially, just as Corvette is to Chevrolet, Pontiac will apparently be to Buick & GMC. And, FWIW, I support the idea of marketing Chevrolet as Chevrolet & Corvette again (Just like it used to be) Me like!

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../812020404/1148 3.5 million jobs are at stake, and Congress seems reluctant to get off it's ass and do anything... Hmmmm.... I don't like this...

From the plan: WTF, man... NOT cool!

It's nice to hear "For Whom The Bell Tolls" with some base. (Even during the Cliff days, I think the base was too low)

http://www.theengineofdemocracy.com

Don't give up just yet... GM said it would evaluate Saturn (and Saab and Hummer for that matter) Nothing is set in stone. I personally hope GM keeps Saturn. Sell Hummer and Saab.

LMFAO!

GIVE ME A BREAK! Stop dancing around the damn conclusion for the sake of you're favorite MB hookers... The freakin' CTS-V had more first place finishes than any other vehicle, that ALONE makes it the winner. Just call it and STFU already.

BTW, what is the product that "is more efficient than a Smart car" that GM is planning to introduce? Anyone know?

Exactly... It's pure profit.

+1

My only worries about the whole Pontiac thing is the gray wording... Does "reduced to a niche maker" mean a true performance division or does it mean "we're reducing Pontiac to a Mercury-like state in which it can be phased out if needed." And by 'niche maker that compliments Buick and GMC' do they mean a tight line of truly desirable cars or a small line up of entry level rebadges? (Example: G3, G5, and Vibe) Re: Saturn I really want Saturn to survive... Could GM maybe make it into a Scion-like division that focuses on small cars (like Saturn originally did) Offer 2 or 3 versions of the Corsa and/or Astra.

And your point is? I never said it was any of those things. It's pretty obvious that a Pontiac sale would have to include GM supplying things for quite a while (Which is not a bad thing) Ever here of multiple franchise dealers? Just because they are dualed with GMC & Buick doesn't mean anything. Here, Kia is dualed with Buick and Saab with Volvo. $35K is VERY affordable when compared to the Euro nameplates. The pony cars mean nothing, we're talking apples to oranges in both the mindset of the consumer, bodystyles and the purpose of the vehicle. SIMPLY PUT: With the (apparently greatly exaggerated) death of the LX cars, Pontiac has the ONLY affordable RWD sedan on the market now No kidding?!?! Sold is sold... I never specified terms. And I never said anything about GTOs. Apparently you confuse me with someone that thinks the world revolves around cars from the 60s. :shrugs:

That scares me... Why is this not advertised? Now, if only the idiots in DC will actually read the plans...

I don't really understand how this is the case... Pontiac is something like the 2nd best selling passenger car division at GM. In comparison, Buick moves peanuts... Unless they're counting China (which they shouldn't) Yay... Part of me is excited about this and part of me is very nervous about it... Does this mean that Pontiac will actually build brand equity or is this GM speak for "we're phasing out Pontiac too" Pontiac has potential as a volume division, but I can see where Chevrolet gets the nod and I can see a great future for Pontiac in this, if it is managed right. KEEP IT! Or give the HX to GMC. SELL IT! No more money thrown in black holes! I really hope GM keeps Saturn. It has such great potential. I want a GM that consists of 6 strong nameplates, like in the golden era. Saturn is effectively Oldsmobile. Not sure if this is good or bad... Is this "surrendering" for the sake of the asians that the politicians seem to adore?

Buick is probably appealing because of profit margins as well.. Simply put, GM can engineer a platform and sell it for a lot more money with a Buick tri-shield on it than they could likely get with a Pontiac arrowhead.

Hmm... I thought PCS said that Saab has a savior?!?! Anyway.. Why couldn't Opel (or even Vauxhall) be expanded into the position that Saab occupied in GM's portfolio? In all honesty, why couldn't Cadillac cover that ground anyway?

Or, how about we turn Pontiac into the niche company that it was supposed to be, KILL the Camaro and give them a TRUE halo via a new, unduplicated Firebird/Trans Am? And maybe even a 4 door version of the car. (Or Buick could have that) Technically, Chevrolet could use the Corvette and an AWD Epsilon II Impala as halos. :flame suit on: EDIT: BTW, good to see you back! I've missed your insightful posts!

:AH-HA_wink: You know too much for your own good, my friend! From a sociological point of view, keeping the middle class is DETRIMENTAL to the elite right now. What the elite has to try to do (to maintain their power) is "sustain" those under them enough so that they're happy enough to WORK HARD for those on top. Right now, that sustainability is being seriously jeopardized by energy and the financial crisis. Now the question is; will american middle class people accept less and work more or will they do something about it? And THIS all ties directly into my topic about the UAW seizing control of GM and using it to their advantage. Because, as much as it will help GM, if the UAW is in fact busted, it will be a monumental blow to the middle class and the labor movement here in america.

+1 That's because, unlike the Japanese (at least, until the Prius) Detroit actually has a history of innovation and leadership. That history STILL burns bright despite years of horrible management. That's why a 'me too' Japanese clone from Detroit will never identify with buyers like a true Detroit innovation. The japanese are known for quality, but not so much for innovation.

But 100% of those sales (I'd venture to guess not even 75% of them) will NOT go to the new consolidated divisions. Oldsmobile taught us that. I agree.. I disagree... Lutz told us that good busines sense is a combination of heart and head. More brands = more volume (if GM managed them correctly) and GM, which helped build the middle class, could now help better sustain the middle class through employing them. The automotive industry is one of the last bastions of 'middle class' employment in this country. Other than manufacturing, you either have lower class service jobs or higher class tech jobs. There is a stark divide that is growing because the manufacturing that sustained the middle class is rapidly vanishing.

Something of interest. (Not really disagreeing or agreeing) Both Ford and Toyota also have brands that share the name of the corporation. I wonder how much water "General Motors" carries in relation, or even how much it hurts GM to have a separate name from their top division.

Why does the story lead with Ford? Well.... WELL.... What was that about "The domestics should've been able to call the market." and "Everyone is buying a hybrid car" again?!?! I'm sure we'll start seeing headlines chastising the domestics for spending 'much needed money' on technology that will not provide a return. Yep, kick 'em while they're down... And where are all of the "Toyota is bribing consumers to buy it's cars." and "Toyota is giving away cars" and "Toyota is an evil baby killing corporation" articles from the media?!?!?! *** The comments by some of the people on that page enrage me... How can people be so damn naive and stupid?

Chrysler: Ever the defiant shild of the 3... This is why I love Chrysler. (Now that those filthy Germans no longer own it

Not picking on you specifically, but I really hate it when people say this. It NOT about what Pontiac has... It's about POTENTIAL. Pontiac has enough name recognition alone to make it valuable to some companies... What did Land Rover or Jag have when Ford bought them that made them so appealing??? It certainly wasn't the outdated products and sh*tty quality. What was so appealing about Hummer when GM bought it? Outdated military vehicles?!?! What was so appealing about Saab? What did BMW see in Mini? What did the Chinese see in MG? Why did Mercedes buy the Maybach name? What was so appealing about Smart? Why did GM buy Daewoo? Pontiac has an established dealer network, a pretty damn successful and fresh foundation for a mid-size sedan that already sells very well (compared to almost any other company) the G8 and almost exclusive rights to the affordable RWD market that it affords. Pontiac has the Vibe and it's ties to Toyota (the new #1 automaker, apparently) They have the posterchild Solstice that can outperform a Boxster... Pontiac has a lot to offer... Much more than Saturn, in fact. And Pontiac has HUGE potential. I almost wish Congress would bust up GM into two or three seperate smaller automakers so that we could see what these divisions could do with less bureaucracy.