FUTURE_OF_GM

*fixed, LOL.

So, according to this I'm WAY into the obesity range. If I dropped 100 lbs I would STILL be OVERWEIGHT. If I dropped 110 lbs I'd be "normal weight" So, I'm supposed to be 6'9", roughly 230 lbs? Yeah, right.... Yet that's exactly what we're going to get... SOMEONE has to pay for the elites to maintain their lifestyle. +1 And as for the smoking that's going on right now... My dad smoked around me all of my life... I have ab-so-lute-ly HORRIBLE allergies and sinus problems. I get headaches that I have to lie down for, I have to take meds everyday, even a change in barometric pressure will give me a headache. I HATE smoking and everything associated with it. Yet I *STILL* feel that it is wrong to tell people they cannot smoke in open air areas and "smoking sections" And as far as 'the truth' and all that More of my generation smokes than ever before... All it did was make a bunch of lawyers filthy rich and ruin 'some' of our economy here in NC.

Wow... I can't even drink a f*cking Dr. Pepper anymore without some douche bag sticking his nose in my business. I think this is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Talk about LIMITATION of freedom... Jesus, what's next? A yearly household masturbation tax because excess use of lotion and Kleenex is bad for the environment? I got an idea... And it's a novel one... (Dr. Cox sarcastic tone) How about... PARENTS take responsibility for their kids, and stop screwing with my life. (/Dr. Cox sarcastic tone) Yay for living in america! Home of the [supposedly] free! Then people who weigh close to 400lbs, like myself, would be discriminated against. (Think I'm very obese? Check the photo thread for the answer) Ah, hell... With the way things are going on Wall Street and with (GM/etc.) unemployment, soon enough they WON'T EVEN HAVE TO MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO EAT. That's a GREAT idea Someone has been 'out of commission' with a disability for a year, gains 10-15 lbs and is dropped from their insurance...

They really need to market the hell out of these "fun to drive, yet economical" vehicles. I was talking to a fellow GM enthusiast and he was badmouthing the HHR. I said; "You don't even like the SS." and he looked dumbfounded. These are the kinds of cars that change perception about GM not being able to deliver on the car side.

Ahem.... The elite controlling the masses... (That's all I'm going to say)

And because of that, people will call it a failure and want GM to discontinue the car

North Carolina Transportation Museum -- Spencer Shops History of the N.C. Transportation Museum The N.C. Transportation Museum is located on the site of what was once Southern Railway Company's largest steam locomotive servicing facility. J.P. Morgan, Southern's owner, chose the site because of its location midway between the railroad's major terminal points of Washington, D.C., and Atlanta, Ga. Construction of the Shops began in 1896, and they were named in honor of the first president of Southern Railway, Samuel Spencer. During its peak, Spencer Shops employed nearly 3,000 people, which directly and indirectly provided most of the jobs for the towns of Spencer, East Spencer and other surrounding Rowan County communities. With the advent of the diesel locomotive, Spencer Shops went into decline. The repair facility closed in 1960, but the classification (freight) yard remained open until the late 1970s. In September 1977, Southern Railway donated four acres of the site, including three buildings, to the state of North Carolina. A second donation in 1979 included several; additional historic structures. The entire site was eventually placed under the administration of the Historic Sites section of the North Carolina Department of Cultural Resources. The first exhibit area opened in 1983. Numerous restoration and exhibit improvements have occurred over the years, resulting in the museum's growth in size and popularity. The museum broke its annual visitation record in 2001 with 129.597 visitors, surpassing the old mark - set in 1999 - by nearly 15,000 visitors. The N.C. Transportation Museum Foundation, a support group for the museum, was created in 1977 and is a key factor in the museum's success. More than $2 million in transportation artifacts have been acquired through the group's efforts. Foundation members and volunteers assist in the restoration and operation of these artifacts, which include trains, airplanes, trolley cars, wagons and automobiles. The museum and the Foundation achieved restoration success with the completion of the Roundhouse, exhibits, Barber Junction Depot, turntable, parking lots and overhead bridge in 1996. The total cost of the restoration projects was $8 million. The site's largest restoration project, the repair and renovation of the massive Back Shop, will be a major enhancement to the museum. More than $9 million has been raised, and restoration will begin when the remaining funds can be obtained. EXHIBIT AREAS: Barber Junction Visitor Center: The first stop is the Barber Junction Visitor center, an authentic train depot built in 1898 that was moved to the museum in 1980 from the nearby town of Barber, NC. The Roundhouse: The 37-bay Bob Julian Roundhouse, one of the largest ever constructed, was built (expanded) in 1924 and is one of the few preserved roundhouses remaining in the country. The building houses about 40 restored locomotives and rail cars. Exhibits focus on the lives of the men who made Spencer Shops run and the history of railroads in North Carolina. Stop by the orientation room to get a map of the building, watch the orientation film, and ride the 100-foot turntable. The Restoration Shop: Here, volunteers restore and maintain rail cars and locomotives for future display in the Roundhouse or use on the train ride. The most active work days are Saturdays, and large viewing windows let visitors watch sparks fly and listen to the metal clang. The Flue Shop: Built in 1924 with hundreds of glass panes, was used to repair the flues, or pipes, used in steam locomotive boilers. The building now houses the Bumper to Bumper exhibit, an impressive collection of antique automobiles, ranging from a 1901 White Steam Stanhope to a 1978 Plymouth N.C. Highway Patrol car. Bumper to Bumper traces the evolution of the automobile in North Carolina, from tiny buggy-type vehicles to sleek 1940s roadsters and modern cars. The vehicles are set against backdrops that feature life from the 1920s through the 1980s. Master Mechanics Office: The Master Mechanic's Office, built in 1911, once housed the head of operations for Spencer Shops, but today the Wagons, Wheels, and Wings exhibit hall and the Gift Station fill the historic structure. Displays trace the history of all forms of transportation in the state, including a Conestoga Wagon, a corduroy road, and an amphibious plane built by a North Carolinian in his backyard! *** I had been wanting to visit this place for a very long time, being a car guy and a rail fan. I chose a Wednesday in the off season because I knew we would mostly have the place and the knowledge of the volunteers/oldtimers to ourselves. It was all that I had hoped, 54 acres of history all the way down to the buildings and remaining track. Some of the buildings have been demolished and a lot of the track has been removed, but given the long history, it's pretty remarkable that MOST of the place has survived. There are tons of unrestored train cars on the premises and a lot of buildings that are still off limits because they haven't been restored. (a turntable office, sand shop, coal building, rolling stock repair shop -- in bad shape, powerhouse (it generated it's own power at one time) and a 100,000 square foot back shop that is absolutely beautiful. It is the major project right now and should be complete relatively soon.) I was right at home in the flue shop with the old cars... It was a beautiful old industrial building, mostly intact and untouched at a train yard which houses all types of automobiles and automotive memorabilia. I told the GF that she could just leave me, I'd be perfectly fine here for the rest of my days. The best part is that the yard (naturally) sits right beside Norfolk Southern's mainline, so the whole time you're looking at all of this classic rail equipment and walking around, there is always the lonesome, faint sound of a train whistle in the background. It provides an amazing feel. In the summer, they offer train rides around the facility as well as car shows every other Saturday night. I'm going to spend a whole day. I would highly recommend visiting the place if any of you are ever around the Charlotte area. I can share some interesting tidbits if anyone is interested, but I figured I'd hold off for now since the post is already so long, LOL.

I don't understand why these companies (GM & Ford) sell off their prize vehicles... I mean, WTF man? These things should be under lock and key.

Wow... That's sad. I do remember the uproar a couple of years ago about the couple that wanted to name their kid "Metallica" after the band. James (the lead singer of the band) said he was flattered, but thought it was a bad idea.

Wow... Excellent reads!

GME and their 'marginal' products...

The problem I see with bankruptcy is preserving the size of the company. (Divisions, overseas operations, etc.) I, for one, will not be a GM customer if all they have to offer is Chevrolet or Cadillac. GM needs to maintain it's divisions for future growth and it's size for global competitiveness and economies of scale.

I don't know if I believe in conspiracies on a scale this big, but I certainly believe that certain things happen a certain way for a reason. And I also think that certain people/groups (not necessarily always the same group either) use and exploit opportunities to gain power. Is it a giant conspiracy? Probably not. Is it a chain reaction of events that has been influenced along the way by certain factions attempting to advance themselves? Absolutely. Same thing with the media and it's hatred of domestics... Is it a conspiracy to kill Detroit? Not for the most part (Some journalists have that goal IMO) But I think it is years of 'conditioning' (mostly subconscious) to be negative about Detroit. So, essentially, a lot of journalists, through a LEARNED negativity, automatically critique Detroit a lot harsher and have predisposed notions about the quality of their products and services.

We have a dealer here that has 4 buildings (all side by side) 1) is the Cadillac/Oldsmobile lot. 2) is the Chevrolet lot 3) is Buick/Pontiac/GMC and 4) Is Saturn. It seems that he has either given up his Cadillac franchise or plans to move it in with the Chevrolet franchise. Because the website now says "Chevrolet - Cadillac and the cadillac building has been abandoned. Funny thing is though, they only had 3 or 4 Cadillacs at the place yesterday. (It is a small town, but this is still down compared to usual) I wouldn't think he is getting rid of the Cadillac franchise, as that doesn't seem to be a good move IMO, even with the market down. The dealers around here (Charlotte) are all dead. The GF and I have already been out looking for a car to replace hers and the ONLY dealerships that had traffic were Charlottes largest Ford dealer (which also had a GT500 KR ) and CarMax. Other than that, everyone seems to be starving.

Wow... The two most attractive interiors in that post are the Opel and the Mazda 6. Everything else seems "generic" and "cheap" to me. The less 'substance' and contrasting materials the interior has, the more it looks like a Rubbermaid tote IMO. The Opel looks great (in comparison) because of all of the contrasting materials and the way they all flow together. It seems like much more attention was paid to detail and the car is much more 'tailored' to specific tolerances. Now, it's downfall might be the quality of the pieces (which IMO is impossible to determine from a picture) Then again, my background, and subsequent source for comparison, is classic cars, so maybe that's why I don't want my interiors (or cars) to look like 1980's game consoles. I guess the majority of import buyers and media are from a different mindset. Of course, I know I'm in the minority in this world, not many people have such good taste. :AH-HA_wink:

I agree... As much as I hate the imports and the majority of their buyers, I wouldn't want to see someone's personal property vandalized. That's just not the appropriate way of doing things.

Well, It's this kind of "what good for me above all else" mentality is what has gotten this country into the situation it's in anyway. americans are greedy, individualistic people, many of which have been spoiled for 2 or 3 generations now. It's almost like a new form of tribalism. IMO, the problem is twofold; 1) How do we reverse this culture of 'cutting one's nose off for the purpose of saving their face. (i.e. how do we get people informed enough to see 'the big picture') and 2) How to we walk the fine line of allowing government representatives to actually protect the interest of their states. Because we certainly can't have 'yes men' that agree to everything. Then what's the point of the term 'representative?

LOL, No. We are 4 years apart in age though. {shameless ego boosting} What, you mean this one? {/shamless ego boosting} I was very happy in that pic because I was about to do 2 of my favorite things; 1) eat and 2) go to a huge classic car show.

I want 3 models... Either; G8, Solstice and an entry car --or-- Solstice, and Alpha line and an entry car.

Hell hath frozen over. I still don't like that bastard.

Judging by the posts in this thread, this Pontiac surrender mentality has been going on FAR LONGER than 2 years. If GM saw a drop off of Pontiac purchases back when the getting was good, why didn't it take steps to save the division. (Then again, they've seen the sign of bankruptcy for 3 years now and never took the steps to save the company, so go figure )

I don't know if it'll ever get that bad. But consider the following: 1) The establishment of the WTO was a HUGE blow to the labor movement. The WTO is controlled by the elite and has allowed for the downfall of the american middle class via 'globalization' and free trade. Translation: Business owners can now, instead of having to pay americans a lot of money to work, go to a foreign country and pay people pennies (compared to us) yet STILL have access to sell in the U.S. For example; Nike town employs people for .16/hour. These people work 80 hour weeks and are fired once they reach 25. Did you know that something like 80% of wars are civil wars now. And something like 60% of american police departments have para-military units? Sociology is FILLED with ideas about the police being a tool of the elite to enforce their policies. And I would tend to agree. We lose something like 6 BILLION dollars to white collar crime each year (1 in 3 households is affected by white collar crime) yet you don't see Joe CEO sitting in the jail cell with the teenager that stole from Best Buy, do you? 2) Outsourcing the middle class (right under our noses) has severely weakened the power of the labor movement. The days of the UAW and the like influencing much of anything, are about to be over. It happened with the steel industry, it's happening with autos and I'd expect the Teamsters (mostly truck drivers) to start unraveling soon enough. Outsourcing the middle class has also GREATLY reduced our opportunity for prosperity. Sociologists believe that my generation (gen Y) will be the first generation in american HISTORY that will not enjoy a better standard of living than our parents. Sociologists also believe that education/skills are the only true way to transcend social class. However, the target continues to move (either intentionally or as a product of demand vs. supply) as more people acquire education. In the 60's it was advised that we acquire a high school diploma. Then it became a 4 year degree. Now, anyone who has been in the market for a job recently will know this, employers are actively seeking grad degrees. My GF is in architecture. It's a specialized degree, which means 4 years = BA but you must have 5 years to 'practice' architecture. However, plans are in place to phase out 5th year architecture programs in favor of a 4 year = BA or grad school = practicing architecture mantra. 3) The rise of business conglomerates in the 80's marked the end of good compensation in america. Instead of investing in employees for their ever increasing productivity, our companies sought mergers, acquisitions and higher pay for CEOs. This lead to the 90's where the gap between the social classes really started to widen as employees continued to increase productivity, thus put more money in the pockets of the elite BUT were not adequately compensated. (The ratio of productivity to compensation in this country over the last 30 years is seriously skewed) The U.S. experienced untold wealth, problem is, only the top 5-10% of the population reaped the benefits, in some instances quadrupling their net worth because instead of compensating their employees for productivity increase, they either pocketed the money or bought other businesses. ** So, we've established an 'elite' culture that has global roots and an american LOWER class (READ 2 tier society) that has been crippled from a standpoint of power. 4) The lower class isn't easily scared anymore because they don't EXPECT the prosperity that they once had. (We already see that) So, threatening them with job loss doesn't work. Threatening them with violence doesn't work because 1) desensitization has made us almost immune to it and 2) Culture of violence is everywhere now and is 'status quo' So, how DO you scare the lower class? You tell them that the world is ending, but not through religion, because a lot of them don't believe in religion anymore. No, you use the environment; the world itself. 5) Along comes the green movement which presents a PERFECT opportunity to keep the lower class in line. Al Gore and people like him FLY around in personal jets to spread the terror and make a living off of speaking to live in huge houses. The mantra, just like with the hollywood stars is; "Do as I say, not as I do" (a.k.a. Keep your hands off of my resources --or-- 'right size' your carbon footprint) The EU recently considered legislation that would ALLOW any person born a certain size carbon footprint. It would be a carbon credit system (that could EASILY be manipulated by those in power) where you are alloted a certain amount of carbon points each year, and then have to buy extra points or basically cease to exist if you run out. 6) The great part is that, the elite haven't even had to fire a shot to do this. The constant propaganda about 'live within your carbon footprint' and the weakened lower class has caused a large majority of people to just 'fall in line' In the future, I expect the 'Climate Change' debate to become engrained in our thought process. We will be taught from birth to death, that climate change is a dirty word. Eventually, "the earth will become overcrowded" and you'll start to see MORE government regulation of our everyday lives. California already tried to gain control of it's residents thermostats and CAFE attempts to control what and how we drive. Now that the credit crisis has happened and the average american is upside down financially (i.e. No longer controls a significant part of his/her money) there won't be a THING we can do to combat it because we all know that money talks. With the power to produce gone (i.e. the elites no longer NEED you in order to make money) and the power to purchase gone (i.e. what little influence on business and government that we had left) it'll be easy as pie to force us into this kind of existence. Recently, there was an interesting article (I didn't save it) about how the middle class was suffering because of high energy costs. The 'kicker' was that, instead of worrying about this, businesses were now actively marketing to the upper class. to sustain themselves and abandoning the lower class. Therefore, unless the economy gets REAL bad, the elites now have enough money to carry it. What this does is take the lower class out of the equation entirely. They won't even care if we don't have a good quality of life and if we begin stealing from them, they'll increase the penalty for larceny and increase law enforcement as a method of control, because that is much easier than fixing the lower class. Want proof that the elite have the upper hand at all costs? Look no further than the $700 billion bail out that Congress gave to the elites without even ASKING the voters. These bankers, they don't NEED our money. But they wanted it and they control the game (Washington, the world, labor) so they got it. Those same people DON'T WANT GM & Co. to survive, because GM & Co. by harboring and fueling the UAW are one of the last threats to their power. These same people are the ones that constantly chastise the union and "advise" the transplants not to employ the union. And THAT is why I made the topic about the UAW sstepping up to acquire GM, at all costs. GM is the last of it's kind, a throwback to the way america USED to be (which is probably one reason why everyone hates it) When it is completely gone, so then will be that style of life. Now, before anyone thinks I've finally flipped, this is all based in theory. But, it's also all VERY REAL. And, RE: the green movement. I don't think it takes a communist-like 'movement' to teach people to preserve the environment. I hate the green movement, yet I still take measures to save the environment. But what you will begin to see is this 'movement' become commercialized into an industry that will eventually turn on itself (the people who, through good intention, promoted it) As much as I am hopeful for Obama, his plan for the presidency outlines a HUGE commercialization of the green movement to 'create jobs' (a.k.a. get votes)

And, It seems that HSV is in fact working with diesel technology, despite claims that they are not.

And this is why everyone hates you... An agenda of self promotion above all else. (Gee, sounds like a typical GM career culture) And, for the record, the writing has been on the wall about this for a while now... 1) Dead Zeta, 2) No promotion or mention at most levels of press 3) Little hoopla in the media 4) The name delay, etc. I hope GM decides to bring it here, but I know this isn't a top priority.

This is the elite finally finding a fail proof way to control the masses. Globalization, and the demand that YOU give up your luxuries while they increase thir wealth 5 times over was only the beginning. The green movement will be the plan that enslaves us all though. Once they get the majority of the population singing the 'less is more' mantra, we'll be reduced to living in small homogenized houses and driving small homogenized cars. All for the sake of working WAY more than we're compensated for and LIVING to work way more than we're compensated for. This becomes especially 'horror movie scary' when one factors in the virtual INABILITY of most people to unplug from their jobs nowadays, thanks to cell phones, computers and 'working from home.' Why not just build square cubes with a computer and a window to shove food into and make that 'middle class living'? Am I being overly dramatic? CERTAINLY. But you get the point. These are REAL issues that we are facing now and in the future. And this diminished lifestyle is especially true now that the economy is DOA and our core businesses are depleted. There is WAY more at stake with GM and Co. going bankrupt under the surface for politicians and the elite than most people realize. And if anyone thinks the Repugs in the senate were worried about a 'viable GM' in the future, they're missing the point. The repubs couldn't care less about the future of GM, especially the southern repubs, because they believe in 'capitalism' and believe that these companies no longer affect the over all economy. The point was to BUST the UAW and severely weaken the Teamsters