ellives

Let's go over the concepts.... once again.... "worth" and "profit and loss" are two different things. Typically in these kinds of discussions, "worth" is the market perception of the company value and is calculated very easily by using the stock price. The "worth" is calculated as the total number of shares outstanding multiplied by the stock price. As we all hopefully know, stock value is not a direct indication of the value of the assets the company owns, such as plants and equipment. Stock price is more likely an expectation of future earnings. The $39B loss is essentially a write down of the value of assets. Now we as stockholders have to decide whether this write down actually improves or degrades the opportunity for future earnings, which then translates to an increase or decrease in the stock value.

Still feels like more twisting of figures so you don't really know what's going on over there. Same issues that got Enron and Worldcom and all those others into trouble. If the bean counters would stop the BS with the numbers, we the stockholders and consumers could have a real idea of what's going on within these public corporations. This is part of the reason stocks will tumbled at the very hint of negative directional information on a company's results... because every investor knows, corporations will hide things as long as they can in the bs of their public statements.

FOG - sometimes you can be as bad as the tree huggers. Don't you realize the word "subsidize" really means "give government handouts?" When has ANYTHING the government done been done efficiently and inexpensively? With all the handwringing going on, nobody is noticing the fact that the problem is solving itself right now! Toyota is building the Prius and GM is building the Volt. Mercedes is bringing the SmartCar to the US. All kinds of things are happening to provide high mileage / gas saving vehicles. Guess what? No government needed to get involved in getting these products to market. Did ya notice oil approaching $100 / barrel? Where do you think this is going to drive gas prices? 5 bucks a gallon? Higher? How many people are going to be buying Tundras and Tahoes when gas makes it there? Not many. They'll all be lining up to buy the Prius and the Volt.... if they can find one. Funny how this all happened without increased CAFE standards. Government should keep it's dirty, bloody hands out of the economy and the free market and stick to mucking up other things they don't know anything about.

He'll be bullish until Toyota ratchet's up the incentives on their product line to keep the losses coming at GM and Ford. They can certainly afford to do it. Still feels like "death by a thousand cuts" to me.

There is an amazing number of negative percentage numbers in their lineup. If they weren't giving Tundras away the overall sales number would be a lot worse than the +0.5 number they're showing. Maybe the lemmings started to see the ground.

Maybe should have happened even sooner than 2005. The last Seville was built at the end of 2003 supposedly. Still feels like a company retrenching rather than attacking.

There has been an improvement it GM's situation with healthcare liabilities but I still haven't seen any one say there are at parity with Toyota in labor costs.

Good news however Toyota has a way of being very patient... waiting and working and steadily improving. Their product (particularly the Tundra) needs to get better and GM needs to continue to improve their cost structure. Who can do more faster?

They may prove they can build and sell certain models but their overall profitability has been marginal for 2 decades. He who makes the most profit wins.

This statement is redundant. We all know GM can build product that can be competitive with Toyota. The question is whether they can make money at it while the UAW albatross is hanging around their necks.

Huh? *We're* scratching our heads at this comment.... (wouldn't have taken that much...) They have "gotten by" for over 20 years which is what got them where they are. The DeVille/DTS product needs a complete redesign with a RWD platform.... AWD should be there but the priority is RWD. They're finally getting serious about keeping the value up on their product by avoiding the annual "giveaway" cycle at the end of the product year to clear out the old stock. Good for them. Too bad they're competing with cash rich Toyota who can afford to take a loss on their garbage Tundra product every time one ships out the door. Eventually they'll move all their production offshore and kill the UAW for good - Then they'll be able to compete with Toyota.

This just goes to a general dishonesty everywhere. In corporate life people will just go along because they're not on the hook to make decisions. I've been involved in many projects where no one in the room believed there was any chance at success but as long as they were not on the hook for the success or failure of the project, they're happy to just nod acceptance. This is, at its core, dishonest. Business is implicitly dishonest. It's all about getting the most money out of people and paying the least cost even when they know anyone (for example) can buy the same stuff online for 1/2 the cost. The media is the same - none of them cares that there crap is marginally dishonest - as long as nobody can call them on the carpet will obvious examples, they'll continue to "ride the horse" until it's out of steam. Looks like Toyota might finally be there.

It really looks like an RL with a Toyota emblem on it. The whole Japanese product set seems to be an homogenized mess.

Moot issue - build the best vehicles and Toyota will go away on their own.

'08 will be an interesting year due to the volume of new product launch and the precarious situation some of the manufacturers find themselves, Ford the most notable. There is an interesting article on cnn.com today reviewing the '07 results and while it wasn't domestic positive, seemed to spin the truck business in a positive light by citing stats showing the decling there for domestics was no as precipitous as the car business. GM and Ford need some bread and butter winners in the car market in '08.

The Subaru is a WRX and I believe it's still made The problem Cadillac has is with the three letter approach - there's a limited number of usable combinations.

They'll be back..... when Bush is escorted out of the White House.

That translation is hilarious but it gets the point across. I have no idea what the VR-X is... and I'm very ashamed.

I don't like "joint ventures." To me the phrase translates to "we get all of GM's knowledge and then turn around and screw them somehow later."

I agree on both counts. The thing I find comforting is the fact the Impala is really not substantially different (that I know of) internally than the just prior design with the 4 rounds tail lights but it's selling a lot better. I take this as proof that good looking design really motivates people to buy. (I hated the just prior design which helps me make my argument.)

I see Romulus... where's Remus? Oh yeah..... he's over there with the UAW but it's spelled "Ream Us."

Hmm - I wonder what they mean when they say "a majority.... must approve..."

Actually I'm rooting for Hyundai to take Toyota's business away. I figure it interesting our sworn enemies of 50-60 years ago are taking away our automotive industries, and we're helping them do it. I just had to share this guy's ad for his Tacoma as he hasn't had any luck selling (the ad has been repeated dozens of times over the last 2 months.) Craig's list ad Didn't you know the Tacoma is MUCH more reliable than any other truck sold in America? Here's another one: Another Craig's list ad How can anyone justify that much money for a 4 year old truck that looks like that? Lunatics.

When I see "can't be used with...." terminology I'm doubtful it's anything more than smoke. It certainly isn't adding any real discount.

Gregg Shotwell seems like a whiner to me. Not sure why it *wouldn't* make sense to leave some plants unprotected or to pit them against each other for new products for that matter. Seems to me it mirrors real life out there in the care business. He needs to go off and be a mail man or a teacher where there is no competitive pressure and unions thrive. Taxpayers have infinite pockets, right?