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The details sound cool so far. It appears as though Buick may have one heck of a competitive premium midsize sedan on its hands. This might make up for GM's decision to retain the lame "LaCrosse" moniker for this car.

+1 I don't even view the Jeep products or the minivans as desirable either. If this "merger" goes through, I hope it doesn't result in a repeat of the Studebaker/Packard fiasco.

I have given up any hope of longevity for the Pontiac division. I think it's extremely sad and tragic, but inevitable. Pontiac has so much untapped potential. Unfortunately, GM seems to be blind to that potential. It appears as though GM views the division as a detriment to the corporation that they must contend with until they can find a way to quietly phase it out. Since Pontiac is the only division that is exclusive to North America (if you consider Saturn a North American cousin to Opel), I think GM doesn't see much of a point in supporting it or keeping it alive. Here are a few predictions for the future: 1) Pontiac will be kept alive as an entry level brand in the B-P-G sales channel until Saturn can be merged into the channel to replace it. Once Saturn arrives, Pontiac will be discontinued. There will be no new or next generation products for Pontiac in the future. The upcoming G3, Solstice coupe, and G8 ST will be the last product introductions for the brand. 2) The next generation Holden Commodore will be paired with a large Chevy sedan in the U.S. My guess would be that the prevailing plan would be to base the car on the proposed Epsilon-Plus platform, which means that the car would end up being FWD (a possible "performance" version could feature AWD?). The alternative plan would be to use a RWD platform for this car (perhaps a stretched version of Alpha?), but I think GM will shy away from this strategy since they seem to be abandoning quite a bit of their future RWD projects. 3) The Alpha platform will be utilized to create products primarily for Cadillac. Alpha based products for GM's other divisions will be severely limited. The next gen Camaro and possibly a Buick product might be the only 2 Alpha products to be produced outside of Cadillac. I sincerely hope that I'm wrong, but I have a feeling that I'm not. Based on GM's current financial woes as well as unstable economies, fuel issues, environmental concerns, and upcoming governmental regulations, I think these predictions will become the realistic future of GM. Like many of you, I can think of several options or alternatives that would be far more desirable than the predictions listed above. Unfortunately, I doubt those options or alternatives will ever be anything else than pipe dreams.

The Insignia looks to be a well executed premium sedan. I never questioned the car's credentials on this aspect. It might also be considered exceptionally roomy by Euro standards (where smaller cars are the norm). For the car to be successful for mainstream midsize sedan buyers in the U.S. (and "mainstream" is Saturn's market, no matter how much GM wants to deny it), it needs to meet U.S. buyers' expectations of roominess and affordability for a mainstream midsize sedan. This is where I believe the car will falter if it is badged as a Saturn (and I think GM realizes it too). However, I can see the Insignia joining Buick's lineup as a smaller and sportier counterpart to the upcoming LWB Eps II based LaCrosse sedan (much like it will do in China). This is why I translate Bob Lutz's comments on the next gen Aura as meaning that the car will be significantly different from the Insignia. Just like the current Aura was significantly different from the Vectra, I believe that the only elements that will be shared between the next gen Aura and the Insignia are the Opel specific design cues. This would serve to justify the reason why the next gen Aura has been delayed.

I agree with what you are saying if market conditions were perfect and GM were financially able to do this. Unfortunately, neither one is a reality at this time. I don't think a rebadged Insignia would hurt Buick's image at all, as long as the rebadged Insignia remains a Buick exclusive in the U.S. (as well as China). The scenario you presented would be preferable, but GM is simply not in the position to follow that direction at the moment.

There are no products in any Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep showroom that GM needs. Absolutely nothing. I would rather see Chrysler merge with Renault/Nissan. A GM/Chrysler merger would be like 2 drunks trying to help each other across a busy street... I could see the 2 automakers forming some collaboration deals to save some development costs, but a total merger seems like a foolish deal.

I think the overall styling between the Insignia and next gen Aura will be much different also. The Insignia's 4-door coupe profile limits passenger and cargo volume. I think GM realizes that the Insignia's proportions and reduced utility will make it unpopular and unappealing to Saturn's customer base.

Contrary to what my original post may have indicated, I do realize that the G6 didn't replace the Grand Prix in Pontiac's lineup; the G6 was intended to replace the Grand Am. Upon reading my original post, I do understand why you would have thought that I had made that error. I only intended for GM to resurrect the "Grand Prix" name for a Pontiac version of the Opel Insignia. The phrase "modern day Grand Prix" that I used in the original post was a little misleading and inappropriate as the resulting car would be much different than any past versions of the Grand Prix. It doesn't really matter anyway, since GM and some other sources have made it perfectly clear that Pontiac will never receive any Opel products. The G6 sedan still looks awkward to me. I can't quite explain why, but it just does. To me, the Aura and Malibu LWB Eps I platform mates that followed this car to market are much more attractive and cohesive designs. Styling is very subjective though and everyone has their own idea of what is attractive or a well executed design.

I don't know why GM dropped the "Cavalier" name when it introduced the Cobalt. The Cobalt's styling looked like an evolution of the last gen Cavalier anyway. I know the Cavalier name was a bit damaged, but a great product can do wonders for a model name. Look at the transformation of the "Malibu" name that came about with the wonderful 2008 model. "Cobalt" just sounds so sterile, clinical, and passionless to me. "Cruze" just sounds childish and ridiculous. I think they should resurrect one of the following names: "Monza", "Nova", or "Cavalier".

I believe if GM did this, then they would just reallocate their limited resources elsewhere and Pontiac would stay "on hiatus" forever. It's obvious that GM really doesn't believe in properly supporting the brand anymore. This would just give them an excuse to do what I believe they are already planning to do anyway. Your idea and intentions are commendable, I just don't trust GM to follow through with it. Since Pontiac is limited to North America (Saturn is supposed to be "aligned" with Opel, which I still don't fully agree with), I think GM feels it is not worth the time, effort, or development money to give the division anything unique in the future. If GM's intentions are to give Pontiac rebadged Chevy/GMDAT clones, then I wish they would just go ahead and pull the plug anyway. It's a terrible fate for a brand that has the potential to be so much more. I also agree with SAmadei: the dealers would have a major cow over this one. Pontiac's rebadged Chevy clones give B-P-G dealers something small, inexpensive, and supposedly fuel efficient to sell. They definitely will not be willing to let this go even if it meant that the division would receive something better and more brand appropriate in the future.

I agree with you for the most part. I would love to see an Alpha based RWD production version of the recent Riviera Concept as a low volume halo product for Buick (although a FWD Eps II based version would be fine also). Other than that, Buick should remain FWD. If GM is really going to put that much development effort into Alpha (which I'm highly skeptical about; I'll believe it when I see it), then I do agree with you that Pontiac and Holden should receive the bulk of the affordable products. Unfortunately, it seems that GM does not see it that way.

Yeah, I was approaching it from a different direction. Each dealer network would be focused on a different portion of the market. Chevy/Pontiac/GMC would be a mainstream volume network that would compete with Toyota, Honda, Ford, Kia/Hyundai, Dodge/Jeep, and Nissan. Buick/Saturn would be a midmarket premium network that would compete against Acura, Mazda, Lincoln/Mercury, Chrysler, and VW. Cadillac/Saab would be a luxury network that would compete against Lexus, Infiniti, BMW/Mini, Mercedes, Audi, and Volvo. I do find your approach interesting and would like to see more info and a complete lineup plan when you get a chance to submit one.

My first choice for placement of the Insignia would be to put it in Pontiac's lineup as a modern day Grand Prix (I hate the alpha-numeric G based model designations) to replace the awkward G6. Since this is not going to happen (I believe GM is planning to eventually kill off Pontiac, unfortunately), my second choice would be to put it in Buick's lineup to slot below the upcoming LWB Eps II based LaCrosse (just like they plan on doing in China). I think the Insignia based car could be used to draw younger buyers into Buick dealerships (who might not be as concerned about ventiports and sweepspears) while the LWB Eps II based LaCrosse could be used to draw in traditional Buick customers. I see the arrangement between the SWB Eps II car (Insignia) and LWB Eps II car (LaCrosse) mirroring the relationship of the TSX and TL in Acura's lineup (except the Buick products would look much nicer than the hideous Acuras). Since Bob Lutz has claimed that the next gen Aura will be quite different from the Insignia, GM needs to find a home for this nice looking sedan in the U.S. It would be a real shame if GM didn't bring it over here.

Here's the link to the GM Inside News article that was referred to in the Motor Authority article: undefined Source: GM Inside News

I found this article on Motor Authority this morning. I don't know how much of it is based on fact or just speculating and wishful thinking. undefined Source: Motor Authority

Thanks for the feedback. I do have some replies and responses to your concerns: 1) I don't think combining Pontiac/GMC with Chevrolet would be creating more products for the sales channel. Most of Pontiac's lineup and all of GMC's lineup would actually reduce the number of products sold under the Chevrolet brand. The actual number of increased products is 2: the LeMans and GTO (the Grand Prix would essentially replace the FWD Impala as the flagship sedan for the sales channel). Even if combining the 3 brands would result in a marginal increase in products, shouldn't this sales channel have the most products anyway since it is the corporation's volume network? Another reason that I chose to combine Pontiac with Chevrolet is that Pontiac's products would get the maximum amount of exposure by simply being included in GM's largest dealership base. I also believe that the affordable performance sub-brand (Pontiac) should be paired with the affordable volume division (Chevrolet). 2) I can appreciate and understand your counterpoint to my suggestion of moving the Corvette and Camaro under the Pontiac brand. Actually this move would affect the Camaro much more than it would the Corvette. The Corvette has its own distinct badging if I remember correctly; neither the Chevy gold tie badge or name appear anywhere on the car. Chevy simply serves as a designated outlet for the vehicle. All I basically did was change the outlet. No physical changes would need to be made to the Corvette and it would still appear in the same showrooms, it would just be grouped with and sold under Pontiac's affordable performance banner. I do admit that my plan to develop the next gen Alpha based Camaro as a Pontiac Trans Am instead would be a little trickier to pull off. I wouldn't make the change until the Alpha based product was ready for production; the Zeta based Camaro would remain a Camaro for the full length of its model cycle. I don't know if waiting until the model cycle change would make the transition any easier for enthusiasts. The way I look at it is the benefits of having this product be a part of Pontiac's transformation into a true RWD affordable performance sub-brand far outweighs the disadvantages of not badging the next gen Alpha based car as a Chevrolet Camaro. If GM were to decide to make Pontiac the corporation's RWD affordable performance sub-brand, then it seems only natural that the Corvette and Alpha based sports coupe be included in Pontiac's lineup. I'm not suggesting this move to alienate enthusiasts; I am simply trying to keep the brands as clearly defined and relevant as possible. Chevy would be all about affordable mainstream products (FWD cars and crossovers) while Pontiac would be about affordable performance (RWD cars). 3) I didn't neglect or forget a Mini-competitor for Pontiac. I chose not to give Pontiac this product. Pontiac's mission should stay pure and not be diluted with FWD based products. Besides, Pontiac is supposed to represent RWD based affordable performance. This is in direct contrast to Mini, which is more of a FWD based premium small vehicle brand. To me, Saab would be the natural choice for a Mini-competitor. It's a native Euro premium brand that specializes in FWD/AWD vehicles. I enjoyed exchanging thoughts and ideas with you. I fully respect your point of view and where you are coming from with your counterpoints. I provided the above responses just to give you a little more insight into why I made my initial decisions. To me, the exchange of ideas on this forum proves that there are many viable options GM could pursue to improve its North American operations. The corporation just needs to be brave enough to form and adhere to some clear and coherent overall plans and product strategies for its divisions.

Oops! My bad! I know I was one of the offenders. I apologize for the inconvenience.

I think the current Astra should not have been imported into the U.S. The styling is cool, but a lot of the details (engine, transmission, options, amenities) needed to be altered to better match the expectations of U.S. buyers (especially for a premium compact). The absence of a sedan version probably isn't helping matters either. It also would have helped if the car could have been built in North America to avoid the exchange rate issue. In addition to the car's own shortcomings, it is being sold under a brand that seems to be trying to straddle the affordable and premium segments of the market. The Astra is simply a good car that is burdened by the effects of poor product planning and execution by GM. I would love to see the Insignia and other future Opel products sold here, I just question their potential to sell well here as Saturns. I don't think Saturn has the proper identity or premium credibility to fully represent Opel in the U.S. I think Saturn should be combined with Buick and reduced to a small car entry sub-brand to complement Buick in a midmarket premium sales channel. I think Saturn could effectively support this new position by selling next gen North American built versions of the Corsa 3-door/5-door, Astra 3-door/5-door, plus the Meriva and Zafira MPVs. Next gen Opel sedans, wagons, coupe-cabrios, and crossovers (starting with the current Insignia) should be assigned to Buick to complete its lineup and make the brand the high profile member of this sales channel. This would give GM a cost effective way to complete Buick's lineup (in the U.S. and China) as well as allowing the corporation to set up an effective, lucrative, and successful premium midmarket sales channel in the U.S. featuring a division (Buick) that has an established premium image (as well as excellent quality/reliability scores) in the market. The only "ground up" development costs required beyond the Opel based products would be funds to create approximately 2-4 products to complete Buick's lineup. This relationship between Saturn and Buick in the U.S. could be duplicated between Opel and Buick in China since Buick is more popular and established in that market as well. Since Pontiac is apparently not going to receive any Opel products, I think it should be designated as the corporation's affordable performance sub-brand and combined with Chevrolet. GMC should be designated as the corporation's sole truck/SUV sub-brand and combined with Chevrolet as well. Chevrolet's lineup would be reduced and focused on affordable FWD cars and crossovers. Under this setup, Pontiac's lineup would consist of the following products: * LeMans: RWD compact 5-door sedan (Alpha: resurrected Holden Torana with styling inspired by the Torana TT 36 Concept) * Grand Prix: RWD midsize sedan (Sigma-Zeta: downsized next gen Holden Commodore) * Trans Am: RWD compact sports coupe/convertible (Alpha: replaces next gen Chevy Camaro) * GTO: RWD midsize coupe (Sigma-Zeta: resurrected Holden Monaro with styling inspired by the Coupe 60 Concept) * Corvette: RWD flagship 2-seat sports coupe/convertible (I know the Corvette has always been sold under the Chevy name, but it needs to be moved to Pontiac in order for this setup to work. Besides, the Corvette has its own distinct badging and it will still be sold at Chevy dealerships since Pontiac will share showrooms with Chevrolet under this dealer network configuration). Although Pontiac is restricted to North America only, its products could be sold globally under different brands. They could appear as Holdens in Australia, Chevrolets in the Middle East, etc. To differentiate the products and prevent them from competing with their Cadillac platform mates, Pontiac products would be engineered and equipped with features that would keep them targeted at the affordable portion of the market. Cadillac would be the destination for people who desire and can afford all the technological bells and whistles. GM could support all its brands if it would learn that the divisions don't need to be all things to all people. The divisions need to be assigned focused roles that showcase their strengths and given brand appropriate products that reinforce their designated roles. Chevrolet could handle the mainstream affordable portion of the market with Pontiac and GMC supporting it in well defined niche roles. Buick could become a high profile premium division with Saturn supporting it as a small premium vehicle sub-brand. Saab and Cadillac could work together to cover the luxury portion of the market; Saab could supply Cadillac with some luxury credibility in foreign markets (as well as some U.S. markets) while Cadillac could supply Saab with more exposure and a higher profile in the U.S. with its larger dealer base. If GM would change their way of thinking and how it utilizes its global resources, then it would have a more streamlined portfolio that would effectively cover all segments of the U.S. auto market. As for all the internal corporate pettiness, bickering, and ego-tripping, it needs to end so GM can focus on what it needs to do to be successful and profitable in each market. Cadillac doesn't cover the same portion of the market as Pontiac and doesn't need to worry about what Pontiac is doing. If GMNA needs GME products to help it be competitive or fill a need over here, then GME shouldn't be presenting obstacles to prevent it from happening or dictating which divisions should receive the products. If the corporation fails, it will affect all parts of GM. You would think that the corporation's employees would realize this and do whatever it takes to ensure that the corporation succeeds.

I agree. "Ultra" sounds more modern and sophisticated than "Super".

I'm impressed. The interior looks really cool and well executed. Now if they would take the black plastic slabs off the C-pillars, make the chrome trim on the lower edges of the side windows surround the windows, and change the stupid name (at least for North America), the car would be almost perfect.

SALES CHANNELS: GM could get by with 3 sales channels. Pontiac/GMC would join Chevrolet to form the Chevrolet/Pontiac/GMC mainstream volume channel. Saturn would be combined with Buick to form the Buick/Saturn midmarket premium channel. Saab/Cadillac would continue as the corporation's luxury channel. LINEUPS: When forming these future lineups, I tried to stick to the following concepts as much as possible: 1) GM possesses limited "ground up" development funds. 2) The products must reinforce the respective brand's identity. 3) Eliminating a division (other than Hummer) is not an option. 4) No rebadged clones sold in the same market is acceptable. I did allow myself the luxury of assigning the model names I would prefer to see instead of the ones that GM insists on applying to the vehicles. Keeping in mind that the economy is rough and GM is in a precarious financial state, I tried to keep things as basic as possible. If the state of the economy or GM's financial state improves, more models could be added. CHEVROLET/PONTIAC/GMC: Chevrolet: Mainstream affordable volume division * Volt: FWD compact hybrid 5-door (E-flex) * Nova: FWD subcompact sedan (SWB Gamma) * Monza: FWD compact sedan (SWB Delta: upcoming Cruze sedan) * Malibu: FWD midsize sedan (LWB Epsilon) * Groove: FWD subcompact crossover (SWB Gamma: styling inspired by Groove Concept) * Captiva: FWD/AWD compact crossover (SWB Theta) * Equinox: FWD/AWD midsize crossover (LWB Theta) * Traverse: FWD/AWD large crossover (Lambda) Pontiac: RWD affordable performance sub-brand * LeMans: RWD compact 5-door sedan (Alpha: resurrected Holden Torana with styling inspired by the Torana TT 36 Concept) * Grand Prix: RWD midsize sedan (Sigma-Zeta: downsized next gen Holden Commodore) * Trans Am: RWD compact sports coupe/convertible (Alpha: next gen replacement for Chevy Camaro) * GTO: RWD midsize sports coupe (Sigma-Zeta; resurrected Holden Monaro with styling inspired by the Coupe 60 Concept) * Corvette: RWD flagship 2-seat sports coupe/convertible (Y-body) GMC: Truck/SUV sub-brand * Sierra: RWD/AWD fullsize truck * Safari: RWD/AWD fullsize SUT (Reassigned/rebadged Chevy Avalanche) * Denali: RWD/AWD fullsize SUV BUICK/SATURN: Just a couple of notes about this sales channel: 1) Buick will take the lead as the volume member since it has the most premium image between the 2 brands as well as the best quality/reliability scores. Saturn will serve as an entry sub-brand to complement Buick in the sales channel. Buick will carry FWD sedans, wagons, coupe-cabrios, and crossovers to support its position as the volume division in the channel. Saturn will focus on small FWD hatchbacks and MPVs. This setup could be duplicated in China between Buick and Opel since Buick is more popular than Opel in that market. 2) To cut down on "ground up" development costs, Opel products will be used to form or augment the lineups for Buick and Saturn. The Opel based products will be assigned to the divisions based on body style and differentiated by grille design, badging and detailing. The Opel products would be built in North America to eliminate unfavorable exchange rate issues. The only products that would require "ground up" development costs would be the LeSabre, Rainier, and Enclave; all the rest of the products are based on Euro Opel products. This would serve as an economical way to give GM a strong midmarket premium sales channel. Buick: Midmarket premium division * Cielo: FWD subcompact hardtop roadster (SWB Gamma: next gen Opel Tigra "TwinTop") * Skylark: FWD compact coupe-cabrio (SWB Delta: next gen Opel Astra "TwinTop") * Regal: FWD compact sedan/wagon (SWB Delta: next gen Opel Astra sedan/wagon) * Invicta: FWD midsize sedan/wagon (SWB Epsilon: Opel Insignia sedan/wagon) * LeSabre: FWD midsize flagship sedan (LWB Epsilon: upcoming Eps II based LaCrosse replacement) * Rendezvous: FWD/AWD compact crossover (SWB Theta: next gen Opel Antara crossover) * Rainier: FWD/AWD midsize crossover (LWB Theta: reassigned/restyled GMC Terrain) * Enclave: FWD/AWD large crossover (Lambda) Saturn: Entry premium sub-brand * Mantra: FWD compact hybrid 5-door (E-flex: styling inspired by Flextreme Concept) * Corsa: FWD subcompact 5-door/3-door (SWB Gamma: Next gen Opel Corsa hatchbacks) * Astra: FWD compact 5-door/3-door (SWB Delta: Next gen Opel Astra hatchbacks) * Meriva: FWD subcompact MPV (LWB Gamma: Next gen Opel Meriva MPV) * Zafira: FWD compact MPV (LWB Delta: Next gen Opel Zafira MPV) SAAB/CADILLAC: Saab: Euro luxury division * 9-1: AWD subcompact 3-door 2-seat coupe (SWB Gamma) * 9-3: AWD compact sedan/wagon/3-door coupe (SWB Delta) * 9-5: AWD midsize sedan/wagon (SWB Epsilon) * 9-2X: AWD compact crossover (SWB Theta) * 9-4X: AWD midsize crossover (LWB Theta) Cadillac: American luxury division * Calais: RWD/AWD compact sedan/wagon (Alpha) * Seville: RWD/AWD midsize sedan/wagon (Sigma-Zeta) * Allante': RWD/AWD compact coupe-cabrio (Alpha) * Biarritz: RWD/AWD midsize coupe-cabrio (Sigma-Zeta) * Eldorado: RWD flagship hardtop roadster (Y-body) * Escalade: AWD large crossover (Lambda)

I've never quite understood the logic of aligning Saturn with Opel. Saturn has a well established market identity as a quirky affordable brand which appeals to those who value maximum space for minimal money. Opel seems to be moving in an upmarket direction with products that appeal to those who are seeking sporty and stylish vehicles. Attempting to align the 2 brands doesn't seem to be a logical or successful proposition. I think this might be the major reason why Bob Lutz has announced that the next gen Aura would be significantly different from the Opel Insignia. The Insignia favors sophistication and style over affordability and utility, which would make it quite unsuccessful in Saturn's lineup and undesirable to Saturn's traditional clientele. GM would have been better off completely replacing Saturn with Opel (which has very little, if any, market baggage in the U.S. to limit its appeal or market demographic) or aligning Opel with Pontiac (which has a sportier image and a larger dealership base) than attempting to move Saturn upmarket by giving it an Opel inspired lineup. I do have a question. How much power do the individual divisions have in deciding their product strategies? Based on what I have read on this forum and other sources, the product strategies seem to be formed more by bickering ego-driven corporate executives, bean counting corporate accountants, and whining dealerships than any clearly defined or coherent plans formed by individual division managers. It appears that the main responsibility of division managers is to attempt to convince the public that the resulting product placement decisions are appropriate and acceptable for their respective divisions.

I totally agree. If GM is allowing internal politics and senseless bickering to impede their ability to fully utilize their potentially lucrative resources or give their divisions brand appropriate products, then they deserve to fall on their face. Nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, should be allowed to stand in the way of the corporation's ultimate goals: SUCCESS, PROFITABILITY, COMPETITIVENESS (within the market, not within the corporation), RELEVANCE, & LONGEVITY.

If Pontiac's future lies in carrying small rebadged Chevy clones via GMDAT, then I agree with putting the brand out of its misery; Pontiac will have no relevance or purpose in the market. I view BPG as a midmarket premium network to bridge the gap between Chevrolet and Saab/Cadillac. Based on this perception, BPG should not be offering any rebadged Chevy/GMDAT vehicles in their lineups. I still think Pontiac has some potential to be something relevant in the market if GM would give it a clearly defined product strategy. Rebadged Chevy/GMDAT vehicles do not represent an acceptable product strategy. I would rather see Pontiac discontinued than reduced to such an unacceptable fate. I can think of many different solutions that could be implemented to prevent this from happening, but it seems that GM has decided that Pontiac is not worthy of their time and attention.

Actually calling it "Aura" might not be off the mark since Mr. Lutz has stated that the next gen Aura will be "its own car" with different exterior/interior styling than the Euro Opel Insignia. I still believe that GM realizes that the Insignia will not be a successful product for Saturn. The Insignia is too upscale and has "4-door coupe" styling proportions that limits passenger/cargo capacity; it's basically a car for people who value exclusiveness and style over obtaining maximum space for minimal money. Most of Saturn's clientele are concerned with the latter. I could see the Insignia coming over here as a Buick to slot below the upcoming LWB Eps II based LaCrosse though.