The O.C.

Well, I DO like it....it's conservative, but I think way more handsome than a Highlander..... I wonder what the interior is like (I'll see it in Frankfurt I guess....) The deal-sealer, however, could be the new optional V6. I've heard that the new RAV-4 will offer the Avalon's 280hp 3.5L V6 as an option. If that's true, it will be a class-leader by FAR.

.....and you can bet even the base and 3.0 versions will have the new magnesium I-6 motors with 215hp and 255hp.....

While it's a funny story, companies (auto, non-auto) do this kind of thing all the time (rent out a public venue for a private event.) It's nothing new....and certainly nothing "bad" that Toyota did.... In fact, GM did the same thing earlier this year. When I was back at the Detroit Auto Show, I wanted to go to the GM Heritage Museum. I was told it was closed on the day I wanted to go because they closed it for a "private event" for dealers. I was PISSED that I traveled to Detroit (for the show in the first place however) but couldn't even get into the Museum

Let's do one simple thing.....and look at the industries in the USA that are growing and/or stable.....they are ALL non-unionized..... * real estate * sales * health care (with the small exception of some nurses' unions) * technology * IMPORT automotive * marketing/consulting (I'm sure there are many more I'm missing....) AND let's look at the industries in the USA that are dying....or have died.....they are ALL unionized..... * DOMESTIC automotive * steel * other "blue-collar" manufacturing I know my list is not all-encompassing.....but I think my point is being made.....the growth sectors of our economy here in the U.S. for the most part are ALL non-unionized. The union's time has come and gone.....

This would be a HUGE mistake for GM. While it would be fun for us GM fans, in the marketplace, such an expensive and complicated Cobalt would die a hard death. Subaru and Mitsubishi have incredibly-strong world-wide reputations for the WRX and EVO....lots of it stemming from their rally-racing heritage. GM can't match that with Cobalt.....

I'M GOING TO FRANKFURT! I'm so excited......just had to post..... I found a $728 round-trip on Delta from LAX thru Atlanta to Frankfurt.....I'm leaving Friday morning, 9-23 and come back Monday evening 9-26. It will be a quick trip....but I've always wanted to go to the Frankfurt show and see ALL the unique cars that we read about in mags but can never see..... Anyone ever been that can tell me what to expect? BTW....I'm renting a SMART from Hertz....!

All I'm saying......is take a look at the (consumer-side) success of Saturn in the past.....the sales numbers.....the public perception..... And compare it to NOW..... It's a scary time for Saturn...... I think if they would have focused more on the problems they had at the time, they could have reversed Saturn's money-losing situation without forcing Saturn to give up its unique existance within GM.....Saturn used to be a Corporation for goodness sakes....

Saturn now is a miserable failure...... Look at what MADE Saturn special..... * Vehicle designs NOT shared with another GM division..... * A special UAW contract.....and VERY happy workers..... * A new assembly plant in the south when only import manufacturers looking to build there...since then, no other domestic manufacturer has followed them * A unique group of dealerships that all worked to offer the same "feel-good" experience....an experience not shared at other GM dealerships. * AN ALMOST TOTAL LACK OF RECOGNITION BY THE BUYING PUBLIC THAT SATURN WAS IN ANY WAY RELATED TO GENERAL MOTORS * Headquarters, field offices, white-collar employees separate from the rest of GM and with their own individual culture. * SKIP! Maybe the products weren't perfect (I had a '91 SL1 when it was new) but they were the most import-like domestics products on sale at the time in look, feel, and interior quality. That started to slip away, however, as GM asserted more and more control.

I think what Turbo200 is trying to say, and I agree wholeheartedly with him, is that the LaCrosse is an immense disappointment to many Buick/GM fans out there (he and I included) and he was citing some of the main reasons why..... outdated architecture leads to inefficient interior roominess compared to exterior bulk that same outdated architecture and suspension lends the LaCrosse a ride-and-handling compromise not as sophisticated as the competitors... outdated powertrain (3800 and 4-speed auto) leads to substandard driveability, refinement, fuel economy, performance. lack of a cohesively-designed interior that still fails to match the volume leaders in the midsize segment (specifically the Accord) in terms of fit-and-finish, knob and switch tactilability, and material quality. In the mind of many consumers, Buick does NOT play in a league ahead, certainly NOT Lexus, Acura, or Infiniti. If you look at TRANSACTION prices (Buick having far higher incentives than Honda for example) you are looking at comparable prices for the LaCrosse and most LX-and-higher-trim-level Accords.

I LOVE it how manufacturers try to "brag" about having "13,000" orders for a new car. They don't have 13,000 customer orders for Solstice, they have 13,000 dealer orders from dealers that have been allocated Solstices and have consensed to the allocation numbers that GM has given them...... I worked for GM and Buick.....and we did this bragging "trick" all the time. We'd take a slow-selling Buick, "force" the dealers to take a BUNCH of them on allocation, in some cases "dumping" orders on the dealers....then we'd "claim" that we had all these "orders" for our product implying that demand was far greater than realized..... Not to say Solstice won't be a big hit though....it should be....

Hard plastics or soft plastics.....either or.....there's still a difference in the QUALITY of those hard or soft plastics.....and GM is missing it big in this area compared to the competition! And YES....I WILL blow GM for this..... Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, Mazda, and Nissan are ALL doing it better than GM (in varying degrees I might add....)

I used to work for Suzuki and still have many contacts there......and this is in NO way related to any GM product. It's Japanese Suzuki all the way. The new XL-7, however, is reported to be a stretched Equinox/VUE. I rode in a new GV this last weekend and it's a MAJOR improvement over any old Suzuki SUV. It is RWD-based....and feels more rugged than the RAV-4, CR-V, etc...it definitely has a firmer ride...which actually seems to really help handling. It's seems firmer and crisper than an Equinox....maybe a bit rougher also. However, in terms of quietness and engine NVH, I'd say it's even better than the 'Nox. It appears bigger than a RAV-4, but a bit smaller than a CR-V. The V6 is decently powerful, and revvy....and the 5 (!) speed automatic shifts smoothly. Interior materials are (finally) world-class. The upper door panels are soft-touch vinyl.....and the dash top is hard plastic....but really nicely-grained and of a matte-type finish...not glossy....interior is major step up over what you'd find in an Equinox. The fully-loaded V6 Limited 4X4 I rode in had an MSRP of LESS THAN $25K....!!!!!!! It's what the VUE should have been....

....yeah.....SMARTs here are no news....I've seen a TON of them in L.A. and O.C.....all with "mfgr/dist" plates..... I think it could do well here....not just in cities like Chicago, San Francisco, and New York, but also very spread out places like southern California. We have 8-12 lane freeways and massive semi trucks.....and the SMART would be great to zip in and out of L.A. traffic.... Plus, if you did live near one of the congested beach cities like Laguna, Newport, Huntington, Manhattan, Santa Monica, Venice, and Malibu, the SMART would be great to zip around town in....!

My recent business trips? Las Vegas....Phoenix.....Portland.....Seattle......Salt Lake City......Oakland......Fresno..... LaCrosses all over the place.....didn't see a single 300.....in fact, I saw far more LaCrosses than I did new Impalas.... Maybe it is a regional thing.... It's still not near the car the new Chrysler LX car is....anyway you put it....

I gotta tell you....I don't know how often ANY of you travel, but I'm on the road about every week.... AND I haven't seen a SINGLE 300 on a rental lot since the car first came out and Chrysler put them in the fleets to gain launch exposure. I see TONS and TONS of LaCrosses at the rental fleets in every city I go to....almost as numerous as Taurus'. Also, just about every LaCrosse I see around L.A. has a rental I.D. tag in the rear window... I would almost lay money on the fact that Chrysler sells far more retail 300s than Buick does retail LaCrosses. AND, you can bet that DCX makes more and the DCX dealers make more on 300s than GM and their dealers are making on LaCrosse.

"PREMIUM" rentals...? I see LaCrosses all over the Hertz lot....and I can guarantee you they are NOT part of Hertz' "Premier" rentals....they sit alongside the Taurus in the "fullsize" rental category. Also, the article states that Buick has been the biggest advertiser for the Employee Pricing promo? Isn't it ironic that I haven't seen a SINGLE Buick ad for this promo....not a one.... Who the heck is this woman, this "Margaret Brooks?" Does she HAVE a clue?

I'm sorry....IMHO, that "excuse" is complete crap....and smacks of trying to make excuses for GM's lack of insight in this area.... See the above posters that agree with me.....if Mazda can design and execute a tiny roadster that has a more-than-adequate trunk (WITH the top DOWN I might add...) then GM should have been able to. I love the car....BUT, unfortunately I would never buy a Solstice because of this factor. What's the point of buying a car I can never take on any sort of overnight trip...? OR, can't even drive around town running errands because there's nowhere to put anything? The Miata has decent trunk space..... The Z4 has decent trunk space (maybe more expensive, but still a small convertible)..... The Corvette has decent trunk space..... The Solstice (and SKY) are rendered unusable for most overnight trips....especially if you want to drive it with the top down (where luggage capacity goes to about zero.) IF that still suits you, then fine....you have an inexpensive roadster you can buy that's world-class in most other areas....BUT....the lack of space will be a MAJOR factor in the sale of this vehicle for most people. That IS a fact...

My one big problem with the Solstice IS the lack of luggage space. (Please no arguments about "if you're looking for space, buy a minivan...") One of the nice things about having a fun-to-drive roadster is the chance to take it on weekend trips, etc. With the 3.8 cu/ft with the top up, that's barely enough room to take small bags....and with the oddly shaped trunk space, maybe not even that. AND, IF you can get stuff in the trunk, you can't drive on your weekend trip with the top down! It's not like you can even take the Solstice shopping around town! I feel strongly this is one of the main reasons the last generation MR2 failed. You can't use the vehicle for any sort of trip away from home. Mazda was able to give you a decent amount of space.....and so has GM with the Corvette (bigger car, I know.) The car may be good....but GM better not underestimate the negative impact this one failing could have on the car. They have time (maybe) to do something about it for the SKY.

HOLY SHIT..... :blink: That's all I have to say...... I knew it would be fast.....THOUGHT it would outrun the Viper.....but NEVER thought it would embarrass not only the GT but the effing McLaren SLR and F430? Way to go Chevy!

Well, I don't think right now it will be a big issue.....the gas mileage. People that can afford to shell out $40K for a new full-size SUV can probably afford the gas. We have an '05 X5 4.4i and it does suck gas (but boy does it run well....!) We average around 12-14 mpg and here in southern California, it costs us about $70 to fill it. It does have a 25 gallon tank though. BUT we are fortunate enough that we can afford to fill it.....and we don't have long commutes so we can last awhile on that $70 fillup....

Pull your heads out of your asses, its cuting off the circulation to your brains. If you feel less than 50,000 for your white collar buddies is below level do something about it, dont attack those that have made the effort to stand their ground. Spineless gumbys - dance to the pull of the puppet masters for you lack independant thought. [post="4909"][/post] [/quote] The union's efforts to "stand their ground" is doing nothing but helping add to the ruin of GM, Ford, and other unionized businesses.... (and YES I know the union isn't the "only" problem GM has) That's why so many people on here are fighting against the unions. And by the way, it's not just the UAW that is like this in regards to unions. But the overall bitch is the unions' attitude of "gosh, we've given back enough" or "it's not our fault GM is in this mess" or "let's see Wagoner take a pay cut" or "they signed the contract so we're not renegotiating" etc, etc, etc

I've started seeing HHRs on the road now here in socal....and I'll have to admit....I was skeptical at first, but I'm a fan now! However, that car just BEGS for the Cobalt SS Supercharged powertrain...... I think it's a great product.....! PT Cruiser-copier or not....

Have you ever been to Europe? Well I have....and I've sat inside of Vauxhaul Astras and Vectras (Cobalt and Malibu) and let me tell you that the interior materials, design, and fit-and-finish are close to the VW or Mazda3 standard. While the various Epsilons and Deltas are not close enough to be "world cars" it is true that GM is using far better materials and fit-and-finish over there than they are here.... AND their cars over there are very competitively priced or even priced under the major competiton...

A good majority of this nation's white collar workers would consider themselves happy to earn $50K a year with benefits.....and they have kids....and they have mortgages.....and they have car payments....and they have taxes and insurance to pay..... They do it without unions. And many of them DON'T get overtime....and DO work well more than 4o hours per week. And you can be guaranteed they DON'T enjoy the health care, vacation, and benefits that most union workers DO. (Coming from a former Buick Divison white collar worker that worked at Buick City.)

.....but Detroit doesn't have a long history of being "The Show." It was a small regional "dealer sale" show until when, 1990? 1995? I don't know the exact year...just that I don't think Detroit has any sort of lock on the title.... But like I said....I could be wrong....but it IS interesting food-for-thought. Regardless, I go to each show and will continue to go to each show....so it's not like I'm worried about missing anything....