The O.C.

If the Japanese have this supposed advantage due to Japan's manipulation of the Yen, then how come everyone is always promoting the fact that GM is the one with the value advantage...????? Seems contradictory to me..... For example.....Chevy's proud of the fact that a Malibu V6 with more equipment can be had for less than a Camry L4.... It seems to ME that in many cases, if you equip competitive domestic and import cars with similar equipment....it's the DOMESTIC car that comes out LESS EXPENSIVE....and usually has bigger incentives on it to boot.... Another example.....loaded LaCrosse CXS for about $33K.....loaded Toyota Avalon Limited.....about $37K.....?

I took at look at the first Solstice I've seen at a local dealership here in California and was extremely disturbed by the cheap interior materials and poor fit as well as a really questionable color-combination inside..... The white Solstice was quite a looker. It's not often I think a sports-car looks good in white, but the Solstice looks extremely classy.....still much better of a looker than the new Miata. However, when examining the interior, I was really disturbed by what at first glance in mags appears to be a world-class interior, turned out to be a major example of cost-cutting of Lutz' SHARP interior design by Wagoner's bean-counters..... First of all, let me address the nasty color-combination in this car. This white Solstice had basically a tan (beige) leather interior. However, when you choose beige for the seats, the door panels, dash pad, and other trim is dove-grey...? Who picked this combination? They contrast SO badly, it would be a total deal-breaker for me. I can understand beige with BLACK contrasting.....but DOVE-GREY? The all-black interior would certainly be MUCH better..... Next, the interior is covered in hard-plastic. Now, people know from my posts that I tend to be EXTREMELY critical of interior quality....maybe more so than most people....but for me when I spend most of my time BEHIND the wheel, I want a first-class interior. As I've criticized GM before, the hard plastic they use on the dash and door panels of the Solstice is not only hard, it's shiny, brittle, and hollow to the touch. Most other manufacturers do the hard-plastic thing MUCH better. Plus, to really cheapen the feel of the interior, with the windows down, the door panels look unfinished and rough at the top...and you can easily pull the door panels away from the doors with your fingers. NOT an example of solid construction. Finally, the seats were soft and unsupportive and not befitting a sports-car. The bright sides? I LOVED the gauge cluster and the HVAC and radio controls ARE an example of GM's recent first-class execution as found in the Impala, Lucerne, DTS, etc. (as opposed to those in the Cobalt, Malibu, G6.) All I can say is that I REALLY am fond of the design and style of the sweeping dash and console, and the sharp gauge cluster. BUT the interior fits and materials were so bad, it would really make me think twice about considering the Miata....which I examined next door at the Mazda dealership and found an interior, that while not NEAR as stylish as the Solstice, was FAR superior in materials (there's that GOOD hard plastic I was talking about) and fit-and-finish....! Oh, I'm still a HUGE Solstice fan overall.....but it just really frustrates me to see GM continue to saddle world-class designs with bean-counter cost-cutting decisions that are SO visable and vital to a vehicle's success in the marketplace....

Neither the '04 330 convertible I had nor the '05 X5 4.4 we have now have cost us any more to insure than other cars we've had......I don't know why...but they don't...so I could care less...

It's not all-grey.... The dash top and tops of the door panels in the grey-interior cars is black/charcoal.... It's just hard to tell in this pic

See my post above this......Camry is 10-times the car Malibu is. I think it IS more stylish than Malibu (not G6 though.) The Camry 2.4L L4 TROUNCES the Ecotec in terms of smoothness, refinement, and NVH. Toyota has built total competence into this car from the fit-and-finish, to the quality of the interior materials, switches, knobs, seats, stalks, etc., to the powertrain refinement and the Buick-like level of quietness inside the car. Exciting? No, not really.....but definitely a "class-leading" product....and it has the sales to prove it.

First of all, I've ranted in another post about how poor and uncompetitive the Malibu is after I rented one and drove it about 250 miles. Second of all, I have a Camry right now for a rental car (in Reno for a convention) and it's FAR from mushy. Soft, yes....but it's a nice compliant ride over bumps but refuses to float like a Dynaride Buick, etc. And the structure is rock-solid.....unlike the Malibu I had a month or two ago....

There's a HUGE tariff on imported trucks......look what THAT did.....now the imports just build 'em here instead and avoid the tariff all together....

Don't expect any test-drives of V6 Lucernes....... Lutz told me that the NorthStar is the only Lucerne they will make available to the press....(presumably because he knows they would rip the 3800 V6 version apart....)

Same thing I found on my recent trip to Frankfurt......oh, and guys....my rental was a new Alfa Romeo GT Coupe with a 6-speed manual and a 1.9L L4 TurboDiesel that ran like a scalded cat....! I had it on the autobahn at 200kph (124mph) and it was rock-solid. You couldn't believe the torque in this baby....made it feel really punchy. AND, it's a diesel that LOVES to rev (albeit only to 4,500rpms.) I was constantly hitting the rev limiter.

Oh, I understand...... But it seems way disjointed when it comes to Toyota compared to the "fun" we all have with Ford, DCX, and the other imports..... <_< If we're gonna have fun at another company's expense, let's pick something worth bitchin' about......NOT a light-switch recall (for example.) :CG_all:

It's funny......most of the people that continue to rack the Camry for being "boring" are usually the biggest Malibu fans..... :huh: Malibu's got the gold medal for boring, appliance-like transportation. Camry may not be a Corvette, and it's not MY choice in the midsize segment, but I don't find these Camry attributes "boring" when compared to the Malibu: * Attractive, if conservative, exterior design with tight panel gaps * An interior with superior material quality and fit-and-finish * Supportive and comfortable bucket seats * L4 and V6 engines that exhibit world-class NVH and refinement * Smooth and soft suspension that doesn't shake and wiggle over bad roads.

Give me a break....it's a friggin' light switch....and NOT safety related. You know....you guys and the guys on the other Toyota-bashing posts are JUST as bad to Toyota as you claim the media is to GM. It's quite hypocritcal......and childish.....and I may not be any sort of "Toyota-lover", but I'm gettin' tired of it..... (...but the posts STILL make for good entertainment) :blink:

Croc, I am 180 degrees from you..... The CTS design ITSELF is what I find quite attractive....and unique in its class. It's the crappy plastics that let it down. The "dot-matrix" dash and door panels are just plain wierd and do not feel upscale...and the hard, brittle plastic around the center stack and floor console is inexcusable. Comfy seats, nice leather, and a stylish design make up for the crappy materials somewhat in my mind....but the Caddy deserves better.

FIRST of all.....if (and a BIG if) GM declares bankruptcy, the doors WON'T close. They'll restructure and rebuild much like the large airlines are currently doing right now. Secondly, as far as Roger & Me, do you think if you asked the average person in California, or Long Island N.Y., or Miami if they knew what "Roger & Me" was, or where Flint, Michigan is, I BET you that 95% of the time, they won't. As more and more imports open up operations over here, and if DCX continues to rebuild itself as successfully has they have recently, the auto industry and their suppliers will not be destroyed overnight by a GM bankruptcy. Will it suffer? Sure...... Will Michigan and Detroit suffer? Sure..... But life will move on and for 99.5% of this country's population (based upon your figures of 1.3M people affected vs. U.S. population of approximately 291M) they will just get up and continue to go to work and live their lives exactly as they have in the past.

Are you kidding? The $23K 300's interior is SUPERIOR to the CTS'. Now, I don't have a particular problem with the CTS, in fact I like the style of the interior. BUT, the fit-and-finish and materials inside the 300 blows away the strange-grain dash and door panels on the CTS, and the hard, brittle, and hollow plastic on the center stack and console of the CTS. Once again....the LX cars DON'T use the same materials as the Jeep and Dodge trucks...!

Are you kidding? I'm sorry but GM just doesn't have the impact on the U.S. economy that it might have used to...... Sure....things in GM company towns would suffer.....and it certainly wouldn't be good for Michigan....but a bankrupt GM would be an overall blip on the rest of the country's economy's radar....

Oh, you'd be surprised what people get passionate about. I have a friend that currently has a Range Rover....and he claims it has had SO many problems, they are avoiding ANY Land Rover product next time around when the lease expires. This friend LOVES the new Tahoe/Yukon....and would consider replacing the RR with one. But I bet he won't get one if all he can get is a column shifter. He HATES column shifters that much......

Oh come on BS.....don't act so stupid...... :angry: If it was your company, you'd do the EXACT SAME THING. Or, if it was GM that had those EPA ratings, you'd WANT them to do the same thing. Toyota would be STUPID for NOT capitalizing on such an "advantage." <_<

Yeah....that happens here in L.A. too.....and I think it's complete BULLSHIT. Now, I'm neither all for hybrids or all against them....I figure if you want to buy a hybrid, then have at it....I could care less. However, how come the Prius gets to use the car-pool lanes with a single occupant, but the guy in the ULEV gasoline vehicle doesn't? Or what about the guy driving something like a Focus (PLEV, 30-35mpg?) Or what about the guy driving the Jetta TDI that gets 40-45mpg? Here's the kicker.....they HAVEN'T certified the Escape, Highlander, or RX400h hybrids to be able to use the car-pool lanes as single occupants. So far, only the Prius, Insight, Civic (I believe) can use them....and that's because, according to CALTRANS, they are #1 hybrids and #2 get "over 40mpg." What about my Effing C6 that's averaging mid-20's with 400hp? That's gotta be even more efficient than a Prius getting mid-40's with as little power as it offers.

Dash plastics in the LX cars are all the same regardless of trim level (2.7L up to 300C.) The only real trim difference on the dash, etc., is the trim surrounding the center stack (eg...fake woodgrain, silver "aluminum" trim, etc.) Dash tops and door panels are all the same.

The LX car materials ARE different....and much nicer than what DCX is putting into the Jeeps (Liberty excluded....it's better) and trucks. My impression of the Commander is cheap interior materials, but actually nice stalk/switch/knob feel. Fit-and-finish is pretty good....even though the dash and door panel plastics are hard and nasty. Call it acceptable but certainly a level away from world-class. I too feel the Commander has a unique Jeep presence on the road that's not readily apparent in pictures. Call it a "poor man's" version of the Land Rover LR3. The HEMI powertrain, of course, is first-class and we all know the Jeep will be more-than-adept at tackling challenging terrain.

Turbo200 and Sciguy......you know what they say about the size of your Corolla.... :rolleyes:

GM fan or not, your statement was ignorant. I'm sick of people trying to blame the media for GM's mediocricy....that's what GM itself has done for too many years.....and that's what helped them take their eyes of the target too many times. Get real.......when GM offers products actually worthy of praise, the media will give it to them (...like they have the Corvette, CTS, and Suburban for example.)

DAMN rare.....and it would be a pretty fun car to have because of the novelty of it. It helped really loosen up that old 2.8 MPI V6......it was a REAL dog with the automatic..... Although I didn't look......maybe this car was a 3.4L?

It's a tactile-quality thing..... Many people, me included, like the tactile feeling of reaching down, grabbing a hold of, and shifting a console-mounted shifter better than utilizing a column shift. And yes, many people, me included also, perceive column mounted shifters as passe' and old-school. I'll strongly consider not purchasing a car if it only offers a column shifter.....and it's one of the things I really dislike about the 7 and the new M and S-classes. We also have an '05 S500.....and there's NOTHING like slapping that gated shifter out of "park" and down to "drive."