Satty

Wagoner sunk the Titanic.

Wagoner killed Elvis and John Lennon.

Wagoner goes to playgrounds to steal candy from kids and make out with their moms.

Wagoner kicks puppies

My point was that until the products get better (which they are, slowly but surely) then GM needs incentives, especially on the car side of things. Be honest here, if they cost exactlt the same amount and had similar equipment levels and warranties, there is no reason a person would pick a Malibu over an Accord. That may change 3-5 years from now, but as of right now, GM needs to offer that pile of cash on the hood to keep buyers interested. Once the products do improve to the point that they are good enough to not need the price cuts, then you advertise the hell out of them. And name me a non-SUV GM product that is better than everything in its class. Go ahead. Cobalt? Standing in the shadows of the Mazda3, and in some eyes the Civic. Malibu/G6? The Accord and Fusion/Milan are far better vehicles, the Camry would be too if they hadn't bought the design for thei automatic transmission from Chrysler (I know, cheap shot).

No DVD player, and I cant actually see any hail damage, the skylight thingy on it isn't chipped or cracked or anythig, I kind of assumed that hail would hit the top of a car and the big sheet of glass on top would be quite vulnerable, so thats what I looked at first. There are a couple of other MAXX's, program cars, at another dealership priced similarly, so I'm going to look into those too. If I do get a MAXX, I am so making Fly change my name to SWMOHarry.

BM, you're apparently forgetting that GM'd products aren't all that great, in many cases they are a generation or two behind the competition. If you replace things like Employee Pricing and incentives with home delivery (which several local dealerships offer, btw) and improved marketing you're taking away the best reason to buy many current GM products, the insanely cheap price.

Congrats BV. Compare the Mazda to anything from GM in that time period and its a no-brainer. Not that the Lumina, Corsica, Grand Am (which he had, and had blow out on him) and Acheiva weren't good vehicles, the Milennia is just better. A little blandtasticly jellybean in the styling department, but a solid choice that, like all cars, will run a long time with basic maintenance.

I'd also take a very strong look at a 1st-gen Aurora (like Fly's) if I could find one somewhat near ZIP 65802/ SPringfield MO.

Well, since the crash I knew I was going to need to get a new car, its inevitable. Since the crash I've been driving around in a less than perfect 1992 Honda Accord LX 2-door 5-speed. I figured that as long as I had it I wouldn't need to make a rash decision on a new car and I'd be able to save some money up, put some money towards baby-related stuff and get my finances in order before deciding on how much and what I want. Well, last night the Accord lost second gear (it just grinds when I try to put it in second, makes driving interesting) and I dont have high hopes for the rest of the car. So I figured that I would take suggestions/comments from the peanut gallery before jumping into a new ride (which I did last time when I got a car that I loved, then wrecked). I would prefer four or more doors to three or fewer, the whole baby seat thing and cars/wagons to SUVs/trucks, drivetrain isn't a big concern. I dont want to go too much higher than what I was paying for the Solara (about $14,500). Some of the cars I've seen/thought about so far: 2005 Chevrolet Malibu MAXX--$12,495--35xxx miles--"Hail Sale" special, a couple grand below book value--Downside: Interior, exterior--Verdict: Its the front-runner 2001 Buick LeSabre Custom--$8995--79xxx miles--Side airbags, decent safety ratings--Downside: Old man's car image, not sure it has a cd player--Verdict: So spacious and cheap its really tempting 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix--$10,500--80xxx miles--Extremely clean, runs great--Downside: Overpriced, bad dealership, Pontiac interior--Verdict: I almost bought it, glad I didn't, I would consider a GP, just not the one I test drove. 1998+ Ford Taurus--Haven't look at any in particular, but they're cheap and attainable. 1999+ Oldsmobile Alero--I've window shopped a couple and they're also cheap and attainable, but I'm not sure I'd be allowed to buy one since I'm not a sorority girl. 1996+ Jeep Cherokee--I hate SUVs, but at least these aren't toal soccer mom SUVS. Honda CR-V--The SUV thing plus the power-to-weight ratio make thm somewhat unappealing, but I could live with one. Honda Element--I want one, but I'm not sure I'd trust the back seats with an infant seat. Comments and suggestions would be great. *Edit: The GP I drove was an '01 not an '03

I'm not from here, and Springfield area drivers are terrible, the only worse ones are the old people in Branson.

AMC Gremlin

Italian cars

Sorry about the crash man, I've been there recently and it royally sucks. This just proves that Missouri drivers are horrible, things like that happen in Springfield all the time.

I want to see an entire thread done in Hebrew, that would be more impressive than one word.

Is there always someone better, yes. But right now, with GM in all of the trouble they're in making a big change at the top would slow the company down.

Cheers and Gears also offered to interview BM, and where did that go? It doesn't matter who interviews him, what matters is results and it is very obvious that nobody in the industry believes that he can get results, which is why GM hasn't implimented the Return to Greatness and the other automakers aren't knocking his door down throwing cash at him to help them out.

I'd consider the Aerio more of a Cobalt competitor, but the Accent and Rio are definately Aveo fighters.

You'll probably try to hump it.

Brian Adams is Satan. John Stamos is Satan's cock.

He's standing in the welfare line with two million other Detroiters.

Only possible explanation I could think of, other than one source or the other playing with the numbers, is that GM counted commercial vehicles or busses or something like that and the other place didn't. I dont have a clue why there would be a discrepancy of eight hundred thousand cars. Maybe Jim Dollinger sold that many Buick's on December 31st but weren't registered until January 3rd so they didn't go down as 2005 sales?

Maybe this thread will be shelved.

Overseas brands are included.

Yes, if only evok had been there.